Howdy
I've read a lot of useful info here about how to start various company types, thanks to all that have contributed. One thing that I don't see (yet?) is levels of income (rough guesses are ok!) that make it worthwhile. I'm trying to make the decision of einzelfirma vs GmBH/LLC, and to me it's mostly about the money.

Assume:
- I have a C permit (B-EU right now but will be C next year I hope) and am allowed to do these things, am a resident of Switzerland, am the only one in this company
- My company would only have income in Switzerland
- My company does not import or export anything, and would have no real-estate (rented or owned) - i'd be running it from my home
- Here's the kicker: I would keep my existing 100% job for at least the first few years (assume I made sure with my existing job this was ok for them )

So ignoring the obvious liability advantages of a GmBH, I believe there are probably tax benefits to a GmBH because the income would not be on top of my existing 100% job since it would be income of the GmbH. I also assume there are other advantages like charging the GmbH rent b/c it stores assets in my home, etc...

The question ends up being, at what point, money-wise, is it worth going the GmbH route? Right away because of the 100% job i intend to keep? Or after annual income exceeds some amount like 5,000chf or 100,000chf?

Thanks for any advice from ppl who started a GmbH, bonus points if you can talk about how much it costs you and how much you think you benefit from tax breaks....
X

No one can you give a magic number without probing into your personal finances and business plan. Consult a Treuhand specialising in SMEs. Good advice does not come cheap but can save you a fortune in the long run.

For a VROM guess I would hope it's possible not to have to consult anyone. Ie. are we talking 10,000 / 100,000 / 1m CHF income to make GmbH worthwhile?

I have a GmbH. I did it for the liability, and because I want my company to be able to grow. Also, it helps dealing with other companies. At no point did an issue of money come into it... though if you were only making 10'000CHF a GmbH would propably be overkill. If you want a rough figure, I wouldn't do it for less than ~150K gross company income.

How are you going to get the money out of the GmbH into your hands? It's all very well the company have tax breaks, but you're the one wanting the money to spend.

Roughly 100 K or greater.

Shareholder dividends. These days the effective tax on dividends is about 22pct

The way you get the money out of the GmbH is you pay yourself a salary. Alternatively, the GmbH can loan you money.

Very interesting GabYp,

could you please detail what you mean by paying a loan to yourself?
If you get a loan from the GmbH, don't you have to repay it, sooner or later?

Thank you,
Dylan

Eventually, you have to repay it. It's useful for cashflow.

There's a reason folks pay 250chf upward an hour for this kind of advice by the way.

Just saying....

In this special case, if besides the small private business, one still has a monthly salary, it is worth preparing a business plan to see how the profits will develop. For the first one-two years, the business may have losses. And if you have "einzelfirma" being self-employed, the losses from your einzelfirma will be set against your salary in your "normal" tax return- and you may end up paying no tax at all... There is a rule that the losses should not be borne for more than 5 years in a row- then the Swiss tax authorities consider this business as hobby and losses will not be deductible for tax purposes.

And you can always convert your "einzelfirma" to a GmbH if you wish so at a later stage.

Anyone care to recommend someone who will give good advice for my 250chf?

I have an einzelfirma, around 150K income (80K profit) and am wondering if / how I can benefit going GmbH (or AG).

My first guess was it would be bad since the GmbH would pay taxes on its profit, out of which I would pay myself a salary (and get taxed again). But maybe that's not at all how it works...?

Im pretty sure you're salary would be a business expenses and so you would not get taxed on the profits before the salary is deducted and then on the salary (double taxed). By pretty sure it wouldn't work like that in Australia, England, or the US so Id be really really surprised but hey its Switzerland.

Definitely get professional advice. Sorry I don't know anyone.

Simple answer: If your company is intended to be a pure tax vehicle... why don't you instead move to a place with a lower tax than Zurich? I saved some 40% income tax when moving half an hour out of the city and there are many thousand Swiss doing the same... so I guess it is the more practical approach compared to running a company that does not really do anything. I am not a lawyer, so I cannot get you legal advice, but I'd bet that there must be a catch: you are in a city full of financial guys who love to discuss nothing more than which village offers the lowest tax rates... and nobody seems to use companies the way they are used to save tax in other countries... then there must be some hurdles, no? I know that there are some laws on "Scheinselbststaendigkeit", "pseudo self-employment", I guess that is a good starting point to research.

I use www.trevin.ch , Herr Boksburger has quite good english and knows all the tricks in the book to minimise your tax. He also handled all the start up paperwork when we started our GmbH, his fee for that was around Chf1000 plus government charges.

It doesn't work like that. Your salary is indeed a business expense. You do, however, have to pay employers AHV, so a 100K salary is actually a bigger cost to the company.