Hi

Without offering too many details, here is the story:

-In August I placed an item for sale on eBay.
-The payment was received at Paypal.com.
-The article was sent via Swiss Post.
-Next day I received an e-mail from Paypal claiming FRAUD.
-Requested the shipment returned via Swiss Post.
-Paypal removed the funds from my account and returned the cash to the buyer.
-Item is successfully delivered.
-Paypal.com refuses responsibility.
-My article is gone, and I didn't receive and funds for it.

Value: about CHF 2000.-

My suggestion for all: when receiving payments per Internet, wait a day or two to see if the funds are removed from your account, claiming fraud!

I learned. And share my experiences with you to protect you.

Paypal and eBay will be the subject of my attempt to drag them through the dirt, hopefully via SF-DRS.

notears,justmadandconfusedaboutthesocalled"securei nternetcompanies",bullshit!

Hi Scott, sorry to hear about that. I know that many vendors won't accept paypal because of their buy protection stuff. I should also add a disclaimer: I own stock in Ebay/Paypal. But as an aside from that - you might want to think carefully about exactly which statements you make in a public forum... "are Fraudulent" could potentially get you into some hot water...

I think he was saying that he was accused of fraud.

dave

Thanks for the info because I am a member of Paypal but only to pay since I never sell anything via Internet.

Question for you, Are you the owner of this webside? wondering because you are promoting your business here and I was thinking this is not allowed here.

www.paypalsucks.com

you're not the first and won't be the last. Where were you sending to?

Rules of thumb:
- trust no-one
- remove all funds from Paypal account ASAP (and as you were 2000 francs, there is no charge)
- don't rush to send the item until you're happy
- paypal-verified address? Please...and then investigate. Speak on the phone too.
- use Ricardo.ch

No I am the owner of the website. Limited promotion of your business is allowed, according to the guidelines (might be a good idea to read them?)

Hi Mark, thanks. The heat of the topic maladjusted my thinking.

Topic has been changed. Better?

Thanks LR

Actually, I think I will remove myself from both platforms, or at least put them on the back-burner. Have had "luck" till now, everything has gone well.

I am in contact with an "arm-breaking" service to see if I can get (even a portion) my money back that way.

Thanks for the tips, will review them before I go back into eBay selling.
Bests

Hi Scott,

I would suggest another route to persue Ebay/Paypal. If you have a verified address and delivery then they should according to their own AGBs payout... Furthermore I thought their buyer protection thing was up to $500 and not SFr2K!

The reason I suggest another route is that they have no representation at all in Switzerland and do not even trade in the Swiss currency... I.e. for them Switzerland simply does not exist...

I also had problems with paypal when I sold three items in a month they suddenly locked my account for an investigation as this was unusual circumstances. They then asked for me to produce proof of identity and where I was living. Utility bill, bank statement etc will do they said - all electronic I said. Finally they gave in when I sent them a copy of my alien permit. Then they said I must have a business so fill in the business form. Since then all is good apart from I named my business on their system Mickeymouse enterprises international and now they want me to produce proof that I have such a company. My I have no company etc falls on deaf ears. But I got my money out in the few weeks when all was good so they can go to hell...

Richard

Paypal never came out and said that I stole the funds. But they didn't say the opposite eiter

Hold on a second, if you have sent the item and Paypal have taken the cash back, surely they have 'stolen' the money from you?

I can't believe that they would simply ignore the fact that you've sent the item (and presumably have a receipt of postage) and blindly refund the money to the claimant/buyer without listening to your side of the story.

Especially when one reads the horror stories of people who really have been defrauded and who are unable to get a refund from Paypal.

I'd threaten them with legal action if I was you....

This sounds very fishy - what sort of feedback does the buyer have?


Gav

They offer buyer protection, and seller protection too.
BUT NOT FOR PERSONS IN SWITZERLAND!

Oh, how many times have I heard that in the past weeks

sounds like there's either a hijacked account or someone's playing silly games - I'm thinking they didn't do a non-performing seller or whatever they call it?

I like ricardo as they have my home address. And yours. Shrewd move and the main reason why ebay isn't big here, especially as a seller.

is this your first time on the internet, jangler?

Hey Gav

Basically, yes. It is theft, and Paypal is playing thief here.

Of course I have supporting documents confirming shipment and delivery. Still not worth the paper they are printed on (according to Paypal).

Buyer has all positive feedback, as do I. The joker even gave me positive feedback after receiving the item! The nerve....

Again, Paypal offers Seller Protection. But not to us here in CH.

I intend to limit eBay and stop Paypal activity after this joke. Customer Support (against all their claims and advertisments) is really worthless.

All I hear is "We apologize Mr. Schmith, your funds will not be credited to your account because you do not qualify for seller protection." ... and I heard that numours times in the past weeks.

I have been holding all this to myself. But today was the straw that broke the camel's back, and out it goes.... into all the forums I frequent plus I intend on calling CASH and KASSENSTURTZ tomorrow.

Got to run for now, need to make some money to cover my losses from this chaos.

...later

I will do some checking as this is a bit rich to say the least. May well be that you can take action against Paypal in the US irrespective of their AGBs as they are offering a banking services and I know they are licensed. I can't remember where but I know they are. If you can prove the above then that is simple theft and a bank can't do that and keep its license...

So if they don't offer the service in Switzerland, they can't take the money from you - right? Definitely this crowd are a law onto themselves, the more I read about them the less I ever want to do business using their service.


Gav

Oh and Scott have you tried contacting the buyer. It may be that Paypal have made a mistake. Okay I guess you have thought of and done that - just a suggestion...

Paypal have a bad reputation, but they are huge and thus the number of disgruntled punters, though it may be the same % as for similar services, it is high in total numbers.

I have sold downloads and services with PP for over 5 years and received over $10,000 without a problem. I always empty my PP acount once it is over CHF150 (which is start of free withdrawal). For CHF2000 I wouild have withdrawn the money the moment it was credited.

I feel PP will resolve this matter though...