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17.05.2012, 00:50
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| | | How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway?
I have Googled and searched this forum but I found no information on whether I must be a resident of Switzerland to create a Einzelfirma there.
I'm a Canadian citizen, who has permanent residency is Norway and want to expand my business but with a Swiss company instead of a Norwegian one.
But I looked into the other forms of company I can create as a non-resident and they either require me to have someone living in Switzerland or many thousands of CHF, both of these kind of take away from the simplicity I want in starting a company there.
So basically, I wonder, living in Norway, can I register, run and pay tax on an Einzelfirma in Switzerland? If so, how?
I'm not willing to live in Switzerland or spend many weeks there, but traveling there on occasions is no problem, if needed but I'd still rather avoid.
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17.05.2012, 10:57
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway?
Have someone resident in Switzerland be on the Board of Directors seems to be the only way, which means you can't do an Einzelfirma iirc.
I'm doing that for a friend's SA right now. He pays me a nominal salary for my time spent signing stuff and going to the post office and expenses for when I have to go to Board meetings.
In my friend's case, it is because he lives in neighboring France and the majority of his business actually takes place in Switzerland and he is here every day. So my responsibility really stops at signing stuff- if you don't plan to come that often, your Swiss-based representative may have more work than I do.
I just don't understand how the benefits of money and taxes outweigh the inconveniences of paperwork and time. Past what I think is around 100k of profits, the paperwork burden of an Einzelfirma is just as complicated as an SA anyway. Even though it is "easier" to have a Swiss incorporated company, there are a lot of rules about where your business is carried out and who works where and what country is benefitting from the services. I had tax auditors once check that employee cell phones began with +41.
I would be interested to know if an Einzelfirma is possible (will wait for EF to enlighten me). My friend specifically switched from Einzelfirma to SA because he wasn't living in Switzerland any more. So I do know that a SA is possible if you find a trusted business partner in Switzerland who will sit on the Board of your Swiss company.
This is JMO, MOO, etc etc etc. I personally think it isn't worth it if you don't have any Swiss ties, but I know from EF that other people will have much different experience...
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17.05.2012, 11:29
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Have someone resident in Switzerland be on the Board of Directors seems to be the only way, which means you can't do an Einzelfirma iirc.
I'm doing that for a friend's SA right now. He pays me a nominal salary for my time spent signing stuff and going to the post office and expenses for when I have to go to Board meetings.
In my friend's case, it is because he lives in neighboring France and the majority of his business actually takes place in Switzerland and he is here every day. So my responsibility really stops at signing stuff- if you don't plan to come that often, your Swiss-based representative may have more work than I do.
I just don't understand how the benefits of money and taxes outweigh the inconveniences of paperwork and time. Past what I think is around 100k of profits, the paperwork burden of an Einzelfirma is just as complicated as an SA anyway. Even though it is "easier" to have a Swiss incorporated company, there are a lot of rules about where your business is carried out and who works where and what country is benefitting from the services. I had tax auditors once check that employee cell phones began with +41.
I would be interested to know if an Einzelfirma is possible (will wait for EF to enlighten me). My friend specifically switched from Einzelfirma to SA because he wasn't living in Switzerland any more. So I do know that a SA is possible if you find a trusted business partner in Switzerland who will sit on the Board of your Swiss company.
This is JMO, MOO, etc etc etc. I personally think it isn't worth it if you don't have any Swiss ties, but I know from EF that other people will have much different experience... | | | | | Basically what you're saying is that since I'm not living in Switzerland nor plan to travel often, an Einzelfirma is out of the question and therefore a SA would be the better choice?
The company I plan will not gain income from Switzerland, it will simply invoice companies here from Norway, if that makes any difference.
The company you are suggesting, is it the "Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung (GmbH) (Limited Liability Company)"?
If it is, then 20k CHF is not too bad, but how much trust do I need to put in the partner I have? Is it basically that they will sign things when needed, or can they somehow run my company into bankruptcy somehow or empty my bank account and rob me?
And how often will I have to travel to Switzerland with that type of company, and how easy will the entire process be to register, run it and pay taxes for it from income earned from outside Switzerland?
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17.05.2012, 12:07
| | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Basically what you're saying is that since I'm not living in Switzerland nor plan to travel often, an Einzelfirma is out of the question and therefore a SA would be the better choice?
The company I plan will not gain income from Switzerland, it will simply invoice companies here from Norway, if that makes any difference.
The company you are suggesting, is it the "Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung (GmbH) (Limited Liability Company)"?
If it is, then 20k CHF is not too bad, but how much trust do I need to put in the partner I have? Is it basically that they will sign things when needed, or can they somehow run my company into bankruptcy somehow or empty my bank account and rob me?
And how often will I have to travel to Switzerland with that type of company, and how easy will the entire process be to register, run it and pay taxes for it from income earned from outside Switzerland? | | | | | They were talking about an AG/SA
Sure the people running your company can bankrupt it & run off with the cash. As Norway has high taxes, I suspect what your doing is tax evasion, the people running you company will realise that, they are not fools.
Jersey might be a better bet, just £500 annuel tax for non res companies.
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17.05.2012, 12:24
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | They were talking about an AG/SA
Sure the people running your company can bankrupt it & run off with the cash. As Norway has high taxes, I suspect what your doing is tax evasion, the people running you company will realise that, they are not fools.
Jersey might be a better bet, just £500 annuel tax for non res companies. | | | | | All depends whether they have direct access to the bank accounts, ie their own single signature or whether they have to sign jointly with another person.
Plenty people got signature at my company, i'm the only one with individual signature though, all others have to sign with me to make payments.
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17.05.2012, 12:28
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | All depends whether they have direct access to the bank accounts, ie their own single signature or whether they have to sign jointly with another person.
Plenty people got signature at my company, i'm the only one with individual signature though, all others have to sign with me to make payments. | | | | | The OP won't be in the country, other directors who know he is just trying to evade taxes can do what they want, they are the directors, the OP is not! The OP will not receive bank statements as he is not 'involved' in the business, he just happens to own it.
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17.05.2012, 12:59
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway?
If any Tom, Dick or Harry on EF could answer these type of questions, how do you think it can be that tax advisors can charge 400 CHF/hour?
Any one want some free beer?
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17.05.2012, 13:27
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway?
I'm by no means an expert on taxes, but here is my take on this: a sole proprietorship (Einzelfirma) is not a separate legal entity, unlike a GmbH or an AG. That is, the sole proprietorship is actually you, the owner. The term Einzelfirma may imply like it is something special, but in the end, it is really just denoting a self-employed individual. Taking this further, tax jurisdiction is usually determined by domicile. Since you as an individual do not reside in Switzerland, there is no way for you to "establish" a Swiss Einzelfirma.
As for company board members potentially looting the company's bank account, that may be a real risk if you have a random person sit on the board. What I would suggest instead is to hire any reputable accounting firm. Not only will they take care of incorporating your business, but they will also act as board members and handle any required paper work.
And as others have already suggested, if you do decide to set up an offshore company, other locations (Luxemburg, Cayman Islands, whatever) may be more appropriate.
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17.05.2012, 13:36
| | Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | They were talking about an AG/SA
Sure the people running your company can bankrupt it & run off with the cash. As Norway has high taxes, I suspect what your doing is tax evasion, the people running you company will realise that, they are not fools.
Jersey might be a better bet, just £500 annuel tax for non res companies. | | | | | Turns out I just learned about a new country, never heard of Jersery before.
Seems like Switzerland may not be the best choice since I can be so easily "robbed". Unless there's another way to keep myself and my money safe (?)
Jersey doesn't seem too bad so I will definitively look into it, but are there any other alternatives in the "mainland" continent? Islands tend to be kind of complicated to travel to.
I heard Monaco and Liechtenstein also are very "business friendly", would it be easier to create a company in one of those two, with it in mind that I'd rather not have someone there with the full power to run my company into the ground and take all my money?
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17.05.2012, 13:39
| | Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | I'm by no means an expert on taxes, but here is my take on this: a sole proprietorship (Einzelfirma) is not a separate legal entity, unlike a GmbH or an AG. That is, the sole proprietorship is actually you, the owner. The term Einzelfirma may imply like it is something special, but in the end, it is really just denoting a self-employed individual. Taking this further, tax jurisdiction is usually determined by domicile. Since you as an individual do not reside in Switzerland, there is no way for you to "establish" a Swiss Einzelfirma.
As for company board members potentially looting the company's bank account, that may be a real risk if you have a random person sit on the board. What I would suggest instead is to hire any reputable accounting firm. Not only will they take care of incorporating your business, but they will also act as board members and handle any required paper work.
And as others have already suggested, if you do decide to set up an offshore company, other locations (Luxemburg, Cayman Islands, whatever) may be more appropriate. | | | | | Ah, I had just replied asking on other alternatives.
Would it be easier in Monaco or Luxemburg than in Switzerland? And if so, do you know what type of companies I can create there and which may keep me safe from other people?
I don't mind paying an accounting company as long as it's not so expensive that it destroys the point of saving in taxes, do you know of any good ones I can use?
And either in those countries above or Switzerland, what's the easiest or best way for me to take out the money from the company?
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17.05.2012, 13:45
| | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Ah, I had just replied asking on other alternatives.
Would it be easier in Monaco or Luxemburg than in Switzerland? And if so, do you know what type of companies I can create there and which may keep me safe from other people?
I don't mind paying an accounting company as long as it's not so expensive that it destroys the point of saving in taxes, do you know of any good ones I can use?
And either in those countries above or Switzerland, what's the easiest or best way for me to take out the money from the company? | | | | | Monaco, Luxembourg, & Switzerland will all be very expensive for what you want to do, unless there is a huge amount of money involved go somewhere cheaper.
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17.05.2012, 14:13
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Monaco, Luxembourg, & Switzerland will all be very expensive for what you want to do, unless there is a huge amount of money involved go somewhere cheaper. | | | | | That seems to be the case, that unless there's millions involved, it's not really worth it.
Do you know of any good, cheaper alternatives that are safe and don't require me to go there?
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17.05.2012, 14:16
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| | | Quote: | |  | | | That seems to be the case, that unless there's millions involved, it's not really worth it.
Do you know of any good, cheaper alternatives that are safe and don't require me to go there? | | | | | Jersey As I previously mentioned or possibly Isle of Man. Both English speaking
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17.05.2012, 14:23
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Jersey As I previously mentioned or possibly Isle of Man. Both English speaking | | | | | Is any of the two any better than the other?
And are you familiar with the types of companies there, since I want a way to easily take out the money, or is that something I should basically just Google for?
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17.05.2012, 14:34
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway?
You may want to explore setting up an offshore company in UAE.
You can be sole shareholder, capital is freely repatriable, no residency requirements (except once to incorporate the company), zero tax - really!
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17.05.2012, 14:38
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Turns out I just learned about a new country, never heard of Jersery before.
Seems like Switzerland may not be the best choice since I can be so easily "robbed". Unless there's another way to keep myself and my money safe (?) | | | | | People who ask about setting up offshore companies and have not even heard of Jersey are most likely to be easily "robbed" anywhere...
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17.05.2012, 14:46
| | Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | You may want to explore setting up an offshore company in UAE.
You can be sole shareholder, capital is freely repatriable, no residency requirements (except once to incorporate the company), zero tax - really! | | | | | This sounds too good to be true, but I truly hope it could work!
Capital being freely repatriable means I can simply take it as I want, then just report at the end of the year the profits and pay tax on that?
And residency requirements once to create the company, what will that have to say? That I have to live there for some time, or at least be in the country?
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17.05.2012, 14:51
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | People who ask about setting up offshore companies and have not even heard of Jersey are most likely to be easily "robbed" anywhere... | | | | | Hehehe, need to start somewhere.
I'm new at this offshore thing, so while I have done some research ofcourse what I know is limited.
Basically, I think it's unfair that I as an entrepreneur work 7 days a week, up to 20 hours a day and have to pay 45% tax, so offshore seems to be a legal way if done right, at least "gray", to work hard, keep more.
So long as I don't bring the money back to Norway basically, but there are many other European countries where I can gladly spend my low-tax money, hehe.
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17.05.2012, 15:17
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Hehehe, need to start somewhere.
I'm new at this offshore thing, so while I have done some research ofcourse what I know is limited.
Basically, I think it's unfair that I as an entrepreneur work 7 days a week, up to 20 hours a day and have to pay 45% tax, so offshore seems to be a legal way if done right, at least "gray", to work hard, keep more.
So long as I don't bring the money back to Norway basically, but there are many other European countries where I can gladly spend my low-tax money, hehe. | | | | | Does Norway not tax you on world wide earnings? You need to live in Malta as you will only be taxed on remttied earnings & not capital.
Edit if your a NonDom you could probably live in the UK for 7 years or Ireland & may tax on a remittance basis
Last edited by fatmanfilms; 17.05.2012 at 15:22.
Reason: non dom addition.
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17.05.2012, 17:16
| | Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway
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| | | Re: How can I start a Einzelfirma when I'm a resident of Norway? | Quote: | |  | | | Does Norway not tax you on world wide earnings? You need to live in Malta as you will only be taxed on remttied earnings & not capital.
Edit if your a NonDom you could probably live in the UK for 7 years or Ireland & may tax on a remittance basis | | | | | What I basically did is talked to a lawyer which I'm familiar with, and what I was told is basically that I can start a company offshore, invoice my own Norwegian company from my offshore company (a reasonable rate for the work done by the offshore company (me)).
From there, I simply pay taxes in the offshore country, whichever they may be and as long as I don't send, say, 100.000 kroner offshore, fly to the country, pay 10.000 in taxes, then come to Norway with 90.000, it should be Ok.
The country I'm looking at right now is Cyprus, I've been there once (nice holiday) and it seems to be very low on taxes and very friendly for foreigners to start. Plus, if I do need to travel there, at least I can enjoy the beach a little.
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