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  #41  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:21
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Re: Car Dealer license

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Yes they will take your vehicle away eventually after years of back tax
for it. They take away the plates so you can't drive it, what's the point
to have the car if you can't drive it. Say they took your plates and you waited
5years to pay the back tax, there's interest etc and you couldn't drive it for five years you get the point.
So just pay your taxes.

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The question is does the Verien need a liscense from Swiss authority to buy
car from manufactures. Not to confuse with car dealer hope that makes sense.
Your question has been answered several times. NO. You need to talk to the manufacturer.
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  #42  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:33
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Re: Car Dealer license

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What legal title, what car ownership document, what the hell are you talking about? No such thing exists in Switzerland. From point of sale, ownership transfer, and ownership itself, a car by Swiss law is the same a watch, a sofa, or a fridge. There is absolutely no legal required document that shows who owns a car in Switzerland. (Not to be confused with the registration document which states the holder of the car)

To prove me wrong, point out the law and name Article or :
https://www.zh.ch/internet/de/rechtl...n/gesetze.html
http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifie.../national.html


Question: What do you intend to do with the car, and why do you need a Verein, and this crazy way do get a car?
I assume to safe money. But how? Why would you spend more without this scheme? And why do you think you will spend less with a Verein?
I think you have many misconceptions that will bite you in the ass at the end.

Please explain, step by step, how you would do it w/o a Verein and were you have to pay what. And then again do the same for the process with a Verein. So far nobody can follow your twisted thoughts.
The car is to be owned by the Verein that's it, not going to be registered in Switzerland, it's not even going see Switzerland. Registering would only apply
if it's being used in Switzerland, and abroad if it's being used as a lease. That's why I asked if the Verein needs a dealers liscense to purchase from manufactures. If natural persons and legal persons resident in swiss can purchase without dealer license that's great. Meaning the manufacture certificate
of origin, bill of sale and factory invoice will all be in the name of the Verien.

Unlike when you buy from a dealership, the car is in their name on the manufacture certificate of origin, bill of sale, factory invoice.
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  #43  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:36
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Re: Car Dealer license

I do not have a criminal mind. It seems to me that your Swiss Verein will collect some "unclean" money, and bank it in Schwyz. Then the Verein will buy something "clean" and expensive, and then move this "clean" asset to the USA, where it can be used by club members using "clean" money.

Now, why didn't I think of that earlier?
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  #44  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:37
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Re: Car Dealer license

Which tax are you attempting to avoid paying?
Is the money already in Switzerland?

For example: non-declared dollars transferred to Switzerland - used to purchase an asset that is then sent back to the US (appears CH owned) - is then leased whereupon clean money is then deposited in a US account under the Vereins name.
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  #45  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:40
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Nope its the debt that makes you liable. The simple owning of property is enough for it to eventually be "taken" in order to clear your debt.


Many people do try...


In Switzerland the answer is no. But you want to buy from a British Manufacturer so check the laws/requirments in the UK.
You say no, but is this applicable. Meaning a swiss resident can buy from Rolls Royce with out any dealer license? I understand what you mean UK might say domestic or foreign might need dealer license, but if Swiss resident doesn't need
based on swiss law, wouldn't that be the law that would apply to purchasing from UK manufacture? Since nothing is required in swiss law it should be required in UK. But I'll check mostly likely not probably only applies to UK domestic residents needing a license to buy from UK manufacture.

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Which tax are you attempting to avoid paying?
Is the money already in Switzerland?

For example: non-declared dollars transferred to Switzerland - used to purchase an asset that is then sent back to the US (appears CH owned) - is then leased whereupon clean money is then deposited in a US account under the Vereins name.
All clean after tax money nothing dirty.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 18.02.2015 at 21:16. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #46  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:43
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Re: Car Dealer license

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All clean after tax money nothing dirty.
If that is the case - why not just go to a Rolls Royce dealer in the US and buy a car?
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  #47  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:50
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Re: Car Dealer license

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You say no, but is this applicable. Meaning a swiss resident can buy from Rolls Royce with out any dealer license? I understand what you mean UK might say domestic or foreign might need dealer license, but if Swiss resident doesn't need
based on swiss law, wouldn't that be the law that would apply to purchasing from UK manufacture? Since nothing is required in swiss law it should be required in UK. But I'll check mostly likely not probably only applies to UK domestic residents needing a license to buy from UK manufacture.
The car is not going to see Switzerland so it's likely Swiss rules won't apply either.

Here's a tip: CALL the manufacturer and tell them what you want to do. They are the ones who will or won't sell you the car, no?
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  #48  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:50
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Which tax are you attempting to avoid paying?
Is the money already in Switzerland?

For example: non-declared dollars transferred to Switzerland - used to purchase an asset that is then sent back to the US (appears CH owned) - is then leased whereupon clean money is then deposited in a US account under the Vereins name.
Not trying to avoid any tax, already exempt from VAT based on
the branch office which will be purchasing the car, and VAT refund.
There's no money laundering going on here if that's what your implying.
We are within the laws of Swiss NPFI non professional financial intermediary.
No third party involved. Believe me we clean.

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If that is the case - why not just go to a Rolls Royce dealer in the US and buy a car?
You need to know the difference between dealer and manufacture to get
what I'm saying.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 18.02.2015 at 21:17. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #49  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:51
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Re: Car Dealer license

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If natural persons and legal persons resident in swiss can purchase without dealer license that's great. Meaning the manufacture certificate of origin, bill of sale and factory invoice will all be in the name of the Verien.
There is only the factory invoice (aka bill of sale), there is no "manufacture certificate of origin" here.

Tom
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Old 17.02.2015, 11:52
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Re: Car Dealer license

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This is bullshit, it's a well known fact Rolls Royce don't deal with monkeys
You should be careful with your words of choice!
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  #51  
Old 17.02.2015, 11:54
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Re: Car Dealer license

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You should be careful with your words of choice!


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Old 17.02.2015, 11:57
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Re: Car Dealer license

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You need to know the difference between dealer and manufacture to get
what I'm saying.
That wasn't the question was it?

If the money is clean why can't you set up a company in the US - and buy the car from a US dealer?

Why are you over complicating matters by having a Swiss Club buy the car as an asset, never register it, and then have US individual(s) make lease payments to the Swiss entity?

Furthermore if you buy directly from the factory (without VAT or similar) it will enter a "bonded" state, on arrival in the US it will remain in a bonded state until relevant taxes are paid.

And finally, if you contact Rolls-Royce directly and request a US-spec car (and yes they are different) to be shipped to the US, they will almost certainly direct you to the importer - who has paid a licence fee to RR to act as sole importer.
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Old 17.02.2015, 11:58
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Re: Car Dealer license

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So just pay your taxes.



Your question has been answered several times. NO. You need to talk to the manufacturer.
Do you even know what taxes are? Where they come from and who they apply to? Think about your nations debt and maybe you understand what taxes are.
Thanks for the advice as that's all I was asking was if I need it or not but still haven't really gotten an legal or lawful answer, if there's any laws please feel free to point me in the right direction.
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:00
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Re: Car Dealer license

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Do you even know what taxes are? Where they come from and who they apply to? Think about your nations debt and maybe you understand what taxes are.
Thanks for the advice as that's all I was asking was if I need it or not but still haven't really gotten an legal or lawful answer, if there's any laws please feel free to point me in the right direction.
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:02
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Re: Car Dealer license

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You say no, but is this applicable. Meaning a swiss resident can buy from Rolls Royce with out any dealer license? I understand what you mean UK might say domestic or foreign might need dealer license, but if Swiss resident doesn't need
based on swiss law, wouldn't that be the law that would apply to purchasing from UK manufacture? Since nothing is required in swiss law it should be required in UK. But I'll check mostly likely not probably only applies to UK domestic residents needing a license to buy from UK manufacture.
I don't fully understand your question or what you don't understand. But I shall try to answer anyway:

Under Swiss Law there is no legal requirement for a "dealership license" or equivalent in order for you to purchase from a manufacturer. HOWEVER, the purchase/sale is not under Swiss Law because you are planning on approaching a manufacturer in the UK and then taking the item to the US. So it will only ever appear as a book value here (i.e. the accounts of your Verein). But I assume you know this, as you claim to know your "ways around" tax issues etc..

A manufacturer in the UK may have different requirements and may therefore require you to have a special license. I say "may" because I am not a British Lawyer and do not know the UK laws and regulations in sufficient detail.

In short, your best bet is to contact the manufacturer of the car you are interested in and ask them. They will be able to advise you more than any forum..
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:04
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Re: Car Dealer license

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I do not have a criminal mind. It seems to me that your Swiss Verein will collect some "unclean" money, and bank it in Schwyz. Then the Verein will buy something "clean" and expensive, and then move this "clean" asset to the USA, where it can be used by club members using "clean" money.

Now, why didn't I think of that earlier?
No that's not what it is. The money to buy the car doesn't have to come from a
swiss bank. There is no dirty money involved here, the money is coming from US
from after tax dollars, all clean no dirty laundry here, that would be against the rules of the club and against the law.
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:10
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Re: Car Dealer license

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No that's not what it is. The money to buy the car doesn't have to come from a
swiss bank. There is no dirty money involved here, the money is coming from US
from after tax dollars, all clean no dirty laundry here, that would be against the rules of the club and against the law.
Ok.. erm.. just a headsup - if the money doesn't come from the Verein's account you may later have a legal/tax headache here in Switzerland if you're claiming the car is an asset of the verein. You will need to ensure your paperwork is well in order for that.
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:10
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I don't fully understand your question or what you don't understand. But I shall try to answer anyway:

Under Swiss Law there is no legal requirement for a "dealership license" or equivalent in order for you to purchase from a manufacturer. HOWEVER, the purchase/sale is not under Swiss Law because you are planning on approaching a manufacturer in the UK and then taking the item to the US. So it will only ever appear as a book value here (i.e. the accounts of your Verein). But I assume you know this, as you claim to know your "ways around" tax issues etc..

A manufacturer in the UK may have different requirements and may therefore require you to have a special license. I say "may" because I am not a British Lawyer and do not know the UK laws and regulations in sufficient detail.

In short, your best bet is to contact the manufacturer of the car you are interested in and ask them. They will be able to advise you more than any forum..
Ok so how do swiss car dealerships buy cars from foreign manufactures?
If they don't need a license as you say, and their are no swiss manufactures
all cars are imported to Switzerland from a swiss dealer from a foreign manufacture. So again if swiss law doesn't require a licensing like you said then the next step is to see if UK requires which I don't think don maybe only to UK domestic dealers and UK foreign branches.

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Ok.. erm.. just a headsup - if the money doesn't come from the Verein's account you may later have a legal/tax headache here in Switzerland if you're claiming the car is an asset of the verein. You will need to ensure your paperwork is well in order for that.
We don't have swiss bank account at the moment, that doesn't stop us from having US bank account in Verein name in US. There's nothing illegal about a swiss entity having a US bank account.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 18.02.2015 at 21:18. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:13
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Re: Car Dealer license

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You should be careful with your words of choice!
Ce est des conneries, ce est un fait bien connu Rolls Royce ne traitent pas avec les singes

Happy/content ?
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Old 17.02.2015, 12:14
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Re: Car Dealer license

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Ok so how do swiss car dealerships buy cars from foreign manufactures?
If they don't need a license as you say, and their are no swiss manufactures
all cars are imported to Switzerland from a swiss dealer from a foreign manufacture. So again if swiss law doesn't require a licensing like you said then the next step is to see if UK requires which I don't think don maybe only to UK domestic dealers and UK foreign branches.
I'm not sure why you keep asking the same question? Are you expecting a different answer?

Swiss dealers just purchase from the car manufacturere they have a business contract with and import the cars.. They pay import duty etc. but do not have a special license for the purchase of cars.

If a UK Manufacturer requires a special license, it's entirely within the realms of possibility that that license is in fact issued by the UK...
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