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Old 23.06.2015, 12:31
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Working with freelancers in Poland

Hi All,

I wonder if anybody could help me with my question regarding working with freelancers from Poland?

My current status is 'self-employed' (although I wish to set up an Einzelfirma in the near future). I am doing a project for which I will need to employ a digital artist, and a programmer for a short period. Outsourcing the work is a necessity because of my start-up budget.

Main questions that come to mind:

•Is it a simple case of, they send an invoice and I pay—no additional admin?
•Are there any legal restrictions?
•What is the easiest and cheapest way to pay somebody in Poland?

Many thanks in advance,
Chris
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Old 23.06.2015, 13:09
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

I think the key question is:
- do you know the guys you want to hire already?
- how much money are we talking about?

I have been in a similar situation just a few weeks ago and after a bit of research found a pretty decent alternative: There are borker websites like upwork - you pay them simply by credit card and they pay the contractor on your behalf. As I see it are you therefore out of any legal issues - you have a contract with a proper company and weather or not anyone down the line has his business properly registered, got liability insurance or pays tax is not your worry anymore. Obviously does the company take a cut for this, so if the project is a couple of hundreds or a few k are you probably ok, if we talk serious money do you need to check if it's worth it for you...

So far so good, but the experience was otherwise terrible: I looked at a ton of profiles and then went on to interview a few. I knew you have to be careful and really run a proper interview, but I never expected the amount of people simply bullshitting there to be that high. A comical sounding tip which I actually am serious about: Carry out the interviews with video. I had several times applicants who pretended to be in the countries I was looking for but turned out to be Indians and Chinese. (Which for some jobs would not matter, but if I want somebody in a high costs country for good reasons did they just waste my time...)
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Old 23.06.2015, 13:30
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Hi Treverus,

Many thanks for the helpful info. I didn't know that such platforms as Upwork.com also covered payments. For anybody else who is interested, here the link: https://www.upwork.com/i/howitworks/client/

In answer to your questions, I don't know the developers but will be sourcing people from a small community of video game developers and through recommendations.

Payments will be roughly around 1250 CHF per month, per freelancer.

Upwork.com takes a commission of 10% for all such transactions, which would amount to around a 125 CHF. I think my Swiss bank charges around 25 CHF for overseas payments. So I suppose what I lose on each payment with Upworks I gain in security.

Many thanks for the tip Treverus!

Does anybody else have similar experiences, by the way?
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Old 23.06.2015, 13:43
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

For a large outsourcing hub city in Poland CHF 1250CHF gross is not a lot. Experienced, skilled engineers might earn CHF 2.5k gross. However, the gaming industry pays less on average so who knows, maybe you can get someone good living in a low-cost area for that money.
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Old 23.06.2015, 14:09
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

I have not used them, but a friend of mine uses a platform called fiverr.com to get some one-off work done.
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Old 23.06.2015, 14:35
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

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Does anybody else have similar experiences, by the way?
I used odesk, which is the predecessor to that site for some translation work.
It went OK. I managed to find someone good, relatively expensive in comparison to some offers but the genuine article.
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Old 23.06.2015, 14:41
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Thanks for the feedback everybody!

Does anybody know what the admin situation would be should I decide to pay somebody directly at some point? As Treverus mentioned: liability insurance, taxes, etc?

It could be that I use a service like Upworks.com for the first payment but would consider switching to directing invoicing/payment should the work go well.
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Old 23.06.2015, 15:21
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

It's very simple to engage people overseas to do work for you overseas. They do the work, they send you an invoice, you pay it (I used direct bank transfer, with a clause in the contract that bank fees would be shared). Any liability insurance, registration, taxes or what not are utterly irrelevant to you. It's their problem, not yours. I occasionally have people work for me on this basis. I use only personal recommendations.

The hard parts are things like

1) Finding the right person
2) Quality control
3) Response times
4) Disputes...

All you need is a good paper trail so the the tax authorities don't think that you're creating false invoices in order to hide money overseas!
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Old 23.06.2015, 15:42
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Many thanks NotAllThere!

That's all the information I needed, thanks.
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Old 23.06.2015, 16:29
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

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Payments will be roughly around 1250 CHF per month, per freelancer.
1250 CHF is not a lot if you are looking for a professional. Depends on the workload. Don't expect to get good service dirt cheap. I would expect approx. 1/3 to 1/2 Swiss equivalent rates.

Easiest to pay with Paypal. Also, many freelancers have registered one-person companies (for tax reasons) so also the paperwork shouldn't be a big issue, but as said before - it's not your thing to worry about.

If you want, you can send me some details of what is it that you expect. What kind of artist, what kind of programmer. I'm polish and I have some friends who I could ask if this is something they would be interested in.
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Old 23.06.2015, 16:37
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Witam glinaa,

I was basing my approximation on the following article, dated 2012: http://polygamia.pl/Polygamia/1,1071..._polskiej.html

However I am still investigating prices and asking for quotes directly from developers.

Yep, I would be grateful if you could ask your friends for any recommendations. I'm looking for a '3D character modeller' and a 'gameplay programmer.'

Thanks for the tips!
Krzysiek
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Old 23.06.2015, 16:47
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Oj, Polacy sa wszedzie

Game development? If you're looking for junior people it probably won't cost too much, this is a pretty tough industry to crack at a high level so folks might be willing to give it a shot (I know plenty of artists and programmers who are resigned to do the QA->devteam route).

You should specify what engine you're looking for as well, for the gameplay programmer, unless it is something built in house.

Pozdrawiam!
Mateusz
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Old 23.06.2015, 16:55
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Czesc Mateusz,

Sorry, my written Polish is not very good so I'll stick to English here.

I'm looking for an experienced artist, and programmer so don't mind paying extra if I find the right people.

The gameplay programmer will be working Unity 3D, and ideally have experience making fighting and/or platform games.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

All the best,
Chris
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Old 23.06.2015, 16:59
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

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Witam glinaa,

I was basing my approximation on the following article, dated 2012: http://polygamia.pl/Polygamia/1,1071..._polskiej.html

However I am still investigating prices and asking for quotes directly from developers.

Yep, I would be grateful if you could ask your friends for any recommendations. I'm looking for a '3D character modeller' and a 'gameplay programmer.'

Thanks for the tips!
Krzysiek
Czesc!

The average salary in Poland has risen by around 15% since 2012, but I would guess that wages in the gaming sector went up much more, as this sector is now in a bit of a boom (or as some would say, bubble).
In any case, my friends hired as programmers and/or artists earn ~2500 CHF/month in day jobs.

I will need some more details about your project in order to ask questions. In particular is it already running or are you starting from scratch. What programming languages are expected, what's the graphic environment and so on.
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Old 23.06.2015, 17:02
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

Hi glinaa,

Thanks for the info. I'll send you a PM with more info.

Cheers,
Chris
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Old 23.06.2015, 19:22
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

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Czesc!

The average salary in Poland has risen by around 15% since 2012, but I would guess that wages in the gaming sector went up much more, as this sector is now in a bit of a boom (or as some would say, bubble).
In any case, my friends hired as programmers and/or artists earn ~2500 CHF/month in day jobs.

I will need some more details about your project in order to ask questions. In particular is it already running or are you starting from scratch. What programming languages are expected, what's the graphic environment and so on.
No bubble Video games is the largest grossing entertainment industry in the world. Outdoes Hollywood and all books combined When a game pulls in 1B$ revenue in 3 days and the Hollywood record is 14 days, there's some good things going on there.

Poland's gamedev is exploding as well with high quality, original/unique games coming out that lift the banner for the country and bring in outside talent as well, so I can imagine salaries there going up. However, the gamedev industry is notoriously difficult to get a foot in anywhere but QA (and even then...), so freelancers are often willing to get a smaller pay (for small projects) in return for a portfolio booster.

Yay games
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Old 23.06.2015, 20:33
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

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No bubble so freelancers are often willing to get a smaller pay (for small projects) in return for a portfolio booster.

Yay games
Yes, but that only works if the commissioner is from a company with yay much clout, we talking Mercedes or Siemens etc. normally it's a 60%-30%-10% deal.
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Old 24.06.2015, 01:27
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Re: Working with freelancers in Poland

For games if they sense something will actually ship (many projects don't), that's like blood in the water for sharks
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