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  #61  
Old 18.01.2007, 08:50
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

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<snip>Bank account- Bob Marley (business only account...seperate from my other private Bob Marley account).

If I choose Marley design or Bob Marley design then do you reccomend making a matching business bank account of the same name or a business bank account under the name Bob Marley is good enough as well? Just from your experience.
Two bank accounts with the same name are possible according to Richard, as banks use numbers not names. But this could be very confusing for you. Unless you are paying suppliers on a regular basis, two accounts are unnecessary IMO as you will be 'one' for tax purposes.

Quote:
Inform- My town hall and home insurance firm that I would be running my business from home. How do I inform the town hall?
Other than telling/proving your self-employed status to the tax office, which is likely housed in the town hall, I don't see what it is do with them.

Quote:
EDIT- Another question. I have to send invoices from clients to prove that I earn money from various clients. On these old invoices I have called myself Bob design. These invoice obviously have my full name Bob Marley along with my other details. Now if I am registering as Bob Marley would SVA Zurich say that these invoices won't count towards proving that I can earn money via my soon to be officially launched business? I hope you understand what I am asking :-)
I have been self employed here for 10 years and the system they use on me is that the SVA takes its figures from the tax office, basing its charge on your net taxable income after deduction of expenses, not individual invoices. In fact nobody by my customers and I have ever seen the invoices I raise. The tax office thsi far have accepted the totals I supplied them...
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Old 18.01.2007, 09:24
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Not that it needs re-confirmation but I phoned SVA Zurich again and this time it was a different lady and she said that they don't decide what name I can use. All they do is check to see if the forms etc are in order and then give me the official self-employed status. She said that she does not know who decides what name you can use. She spoke to her collegue and then said I should ask Handelsregister about the name. Plus she said that her collegue thinks that it needs to have my family name.
What I find sad is that some of them don't know the rules and just give out wrong info. Atleast this lady did not repeat what the other lady had said.
If it was not for Richard I would have been in deep trouble.

AbFab I did not mean for tax purposes but for initial changing of my status by SVA to independent. Anyway I don't think it will make any difference as to what company name I used on the invoice before I even was officially independent :-)
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Old 18.01.2007, 09:33
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

There is a book of rules concerning company naming. I had a copy somewhere. It applies to gmbh and AG definitely , but I can't remember about Einzelfirma.

Company names are pretty free except if you plan to use words like "Swiss" or "International".

Business naming and registration is handled ny the Handelsregister, who have a counter service on the corner of Talstrasse, Zürich near Paradeplatz.

I was told by SVA that my Einzelfirma must have my family name in it:
"Bloggs Schreinerei" for example. It seems pretty free and easy though, and you don't need to have this on your bank account.

dave


Quote:
Not that it needs re-confirmation but I phoned SVA Zurich again and this time it was a different lady and she said that they don't decide what name I can use. All they do is check to see if the forms etc are in order and then give me the official self-employed status. She said that she does not know who decides what name you can use. She spoke to her collegue and then said I should ask Handelsregister about the name. Plus she said that her collegue thinks that it needs to have my family name.
What I find sad is that some of them don't know the rules and just give out wrong info. Atleast this lady did not repeat what the other lady had said.
If it was not for Richard I would have been in deep trouble.

AbFab I did not mean for tax purposes but for initial changing of my status by SVA to independent. Anyway I don't think it will make any difference as to what company name I used on the invoice before I even was officially independent :-)
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  #64  
Old 18.01.2007, 09:54
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Thanks DaveA.

I phoned Handelsregister just now and the lady only spoke German. She was friendly and I don't know how I managed to have a decent conversation in German. Kind of surprised me! lol
So yes SURNAME is MUST in the company name. After SVA confirms the self-employed status I have to visit Handelsregister and the lady will help me fill out the forms.
The company name has to match the letterhead and visiting card. You can't use a shortened version. What I mean is that if I register as Bob Marley design then I cannot use business cards that has my name as Bob design.

So in conclusion you can register you company under your full name or a combination of fantasy name + family name.

So I have decided to go with my first name + family name. Won't be adding anything etc. Just plain "Bob Marley". My name is interesting on it's own :-)

I could go with "Bob Marley design" but that is too long for my real name. I want to have exactly same matching names for web site etc.

Quote:
Two bank accounts with the same name are possible according to Richard, as banks use numbers not names. But this could be very confusing for you. Unless you are paying suppliers on a regular basis, two accounts are unnecessary IMO as you will be 'one' for tax purposes.
I agree for my field it's pointless to create a different bank account. I will just use my current private Bob Marley bank account.

Last edited by jamaicanRUM; 18.01.2007 at 10:49.
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  #65  
Old 18.01.2007, 11:22
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Quote:
Thanks DaveA.

I phoned Handelsregister just now and the lady only spoke German. She was friendly and I don't know how I managed to have a decent conversation in German. Kind of surprised me! lol
So yes SURNAME is MUST in the company name. After SVA confirms the self-employed status I have to visit Handelsregister and the lady will help me fill out the forms.
The company name has to match the letterhead and visiting card. You can't use a shortened version. What I mean is that if I register as Bob Marley design then I cannot use business cards that has my name as Bob design.

So in conclusion you can register you company under your full name or a combination of fantasy name + family name.

So I have decided to go with my first name + family name. Won't be adding anything etc. Just plain "Bob Marley". My name is interesting on it's own :-)

I could go with "Bob Marley design" but that is too long for my real name. I want to have exactly same matching names for web site etc.



I agree for my field it's pointless to create a different bank account. I will just use my current private Bob Marley bank account.
Just before you get something else wrong you are, strangely enough, not allowed to have your website name being the same as your company name. As I said strange but true. This would mean you cannot call yourself www.bob.marley.ch and have that as your company name...
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  #66  
Old 18.01.2007, 11:25
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Strange rule. AhA ! That must explain why so many websites have either Blogssag or Bloggsgmbh as part of their website name. I always thought it was a bit odd.
dave


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Just before you get something else wrong you are, strangely enough, not allowed to have your website name being the same as your company name. As I said strange but true. This would mean you cannot call yourself www.bob.marley.ch and have that as your company name...
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  #67  
Old 18.01.2007, 11:33
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

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Just before you get something else wrong you are, strangely enough, not allowed to have your website name being the same as your company name. As I said strange but true. This would mean you cannot call yourself www.bob.marley.ch and have that as your company name...
Sorry, but I have done exactly that (trading name and domain name the same) for a number of years now - I have both .ch and .com domains.

Who checks this? I doubt the SVA (or Tax office) care or know you have a website. And if it's hosted outside Switzerland, then what? Plus the back of most Swiss vans have domain displayed that are the trading name of the plumbers etc....
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Old 18.01.2007, 11:57
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

You got to be kidding about not being allowed to have an exact matching web address! I know lot (ok some) of self-employed people who have it matching. Could you give me more info? Links or something like that I have both .ch and .com registered already.

So you are saying that if my comapany is called BOB MARLEY then I cannot have www.BOBMARLEY.com OR www.BOBMARLEY.ch?

What about Bobdesign.com? Or does it still need to have the surname thing going on? Marley.com, Marleydesign.com.

AbFab is living proof atleast that you can have it OR maybe get away with it. Don't want to get burnt twice though
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  #69  
Old 18.01.2007, 12:01
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Quote:
Strange rule. AhA ! That must explain why so many websites have either Blogssag or Bloggsgmbh as part of their website name. I always thought it was a bit odd.
dave
I think the reason is that boggs.ch is already taken. Though there is a Swiss penchant for extra long domains, I guess it's the influence of German rather than MyDomainNameIsLongerThanYours.ch....
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Old 18.01.2007, 12:13
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Ok so I phoned them again and this time I could not explain in German lol
Luckily there was an english speaking lady there.

I explained that my trading name will be Bob Marley and I have already registered BobMarley.com and BobMarley.ch. She said that I am 100% allowed to use it ....specially if the company name is same as my real name. Since Richard already proved the last lady wrong I am still bit worried

Is there an up to date place where I can read all these silly RULES for setting Selbständig Einzelfirma?
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Old 18.01.2007, 13:13
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

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Richard thanks for all the info MUCHO GRATIS So the lady was definitely talking out of her bum hole. I hope I did not kill Mozilla

Ok so to make sure that I am on the right track and to aid others I will make a checklist-

My name- Bob Marley

Company Name- Bob Marley or Marley design or Bob Marley design

Bank account- Bob Marley (business only account...seperate from my other private Bob Marley account).

If I choose Marley design or Bob Marley design then do you reccomend making a matching business bank account of the same name or a business bank account under the name Bob Marley is good enough as well? Just from your experience.

Inform- My town hall and home insurance firm that I would be running my business from home. How do I inform the town hall?

YellowPages/Phone Book- Get my firm in there

Register- with the Handelsregister

Anything else I need to do?

Richard I see that you run a shoe business. What kind of business is it? theracketstore is that the company name or is that a front?

EDIT- Another question. I have to send invoices from clients to prove that I earn money from various clients. On these old invoices I have called myself Bob design. These invoice obviously have my full name Bob Marley along with my other details. Now if I am registering as Bob Marley would SVA Zurich say that these invoices won't count towards proving that I can earn money via my soon to be officially launched business? I hope you understand what I am asking :-)
Back again to answer some more questions...

Firstly, you only need to prove that you can earn money if you are wanting some support from the RAV. The invoices having your full name will be sufficient evidence of your ability to earn money though. You need not worry that you are calling your self bob at this point. They will however tell you to change it and you are liable for a SFr. 10 fine for breaking the naming laws but I guess the administrative effort of trying to collect it makes the whole exercise academic.

As to your bank account I would strongly recommend matching the name to the business for the following reason. If you are sending out invoices to people under the name Marley graphic design they can relate that to the business whereas if they receive something from Bob Marley they relate that to a person and lets assume the world treats you well and suddenly you are wanting to become a GmbH with 10 employees the relationship between Bob Marley and the end customer changes to Franz Meyer and the end customer. Furthermore when you are changing to GmbH you simply need to tag that on the end whereas when you are changing your bob Marley name you need to totally change your bank account to Marley Graphic design GmbH which is a very noticeable change to the end customer.

With reference to my business I have several. My primary business is in the UK under a limited company. I have the racketstore.com as a front for a Swiss business aimed at selling sportswear that I can get at discount to the end customer. Hence a lot, if not all, of what I am currently selling is sold under the Swiss trade price. For example the Squash rackets at SFr. 99 are nearly 20 Francs under the 109 + MwSt of the official Swiss trade price. But the actual company is not called racketstore.com
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Old 18.01.2007, 13:17
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

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You got to be kidding about not being allowed to have an exact matching web address! I know lot (ok some) of self-employed people who have it matching. Could you give me more info? Links or something like that I have both .ch and .com registered already.

So you are saying that if my comapany is called BOB MARLEY then I cannot have www.BOBMARLEY.com OR www.BOBMARLEY.ch?

What about Bobdesign.com? Or does it still need to have the surname thing going on? Marley.com, Marleydesign.com.

AbFab is living proof atleast that you can have it OR maybe get away with it. Don't want to get burnt twice though
Now I have to be totally honest here. I read this with respect to the domain name thing a while, say 6 months, ago somewhere, and I could not believe it therefore I reread it checked it verified it asked a few lawyers and in the end believed it. Now you want me to go and find again where I read it. Okay give me a while though... The name of your website can be anything you want and must not have any part of your name in it. However, and be aware of this your AGB's must reference your trading name. Furthermore, to be legally valid they must pop-up in a window that forces you to acknowledge having read them every time you make a transaction for them to be valid ie legally enforceable.
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Old 18.01.2007, 16:09
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

I am in deadline stress so a quick one.

Quote:
Firstly, you only need to prove that you can earn money if you are wanting some support from the RAV.
I am not with RAV. I don't sign on or get any money from anyone apart from my work :-) That said I heard that if you start a business you can ask for 20k free? Is that true even if my bank account is full of savings? :-)

Quote:
As to your bank account I would strongly recommend matching the name to the business
But if my business will be called same as my full name (bob marley) then it is already matched NO?

Quote:
If you are sending out invoices to people under the name Marley graphic design they can relate that to the business whereas if they receive something from Bob Marley they relate that to a person and lets assume the world treats you well and suddenly you are wanting to become a GmbH with 10 employees the relationship between Bob Marley and the end customer changes to Franz Meyer and the end customer.
The field I am in I will always be a one man outfit. Expand and contract the network partners in a project but will never have my own employees. Even if I do become a GMBH in the future then can't I just add GMBH to my company name? Bob Marley GMBH?

Quote:
Now you want me to go and find again where I read it. Okay give me a while though... The name of your website can be anything you want and must not have any part of your name in it
.

Not even if my name = company name?

Quote:
However, and be aware of this your AGB's must reference your trading name. Furthermore, to be legally valid they must pop-up in a window that forces you to acknowledge having read them every time you make a transaction for them to be valid ie legally enforceable.
You lost me there :-( What the hell is AGB
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Old 18.01.2007, 16:14
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Have you looked on gruenden.ch ? There are plenty of useful checklists on there, as well as resources and weblinks to the different departments. Much of it is available in English.
dave


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I am in deadline stress so a quick one.
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  #75  
Old 18.01.2007, 16:17
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Quote:
<sniparooni>

You lost me there :-( What the hell is AGB
AGBs = Allgemeine Geschafts Bedienungen or T&C = Terms and Conditions.

These and the pop-ups refered apply to online sales AKAIK...
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Old 18.01.2007, 16:37
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

I won't be selling anything online like that. I am service based.
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Old 18.01.2007, 17:16
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Hi Again,

checked can't find the link that explicitly said it but have verified that it is true and I was only half right! You cannot have your company name the same as a domain name **IF** you are a sole trade ie not a limited company. The reason for this is actually quite simple. You are not allowed to extend or contract the surname part of your trading name. So how do you get round it you call yourself "www.bobdesign.ch marley" you are then leaving as a bit of an outside part the marley ie your surname but the core remains valid.

What you cannot do is call yourself www.marley.ch as you are then not leaving marley unchanged.

As a GmbH or AG you CAN do this and I might have misled earlier for which I unreservedly retract the comment and apologise.

Rgds

Richard
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Old 18.01.2007, 17:52
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Richard who is the authority that says that it can't be done? Is it the Handelsregister? If yes then I don't need to register anything with them anyway as an Einzelfirma.
How come AbFab and around 10 people I know have it as BobMarley.com?
I contacted few of them and they all said that the canton people don't know jack about internet :-P

Quote:
As a GmbH or AG you CAN do this and I might have misled earlier for which I unreservedly retract the comment and apologise.
No problem.
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Old 18.01.2007, 18:14
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

Quote:
Richard who is the authority that says that it can't be done? Is it the Handelsregister? If yes then I don't need to register anything with them anyway as an Einzelfirma.
How come AbFab and around 10 people I know have it as BobMarley.com?
I contacted few of them and they all said that the canton people don't know jack about internet :-P



No problem.
It is indeed the handelsregister who govern company names. They do not govern the internet of course and you can call an internet site almost anything you like... Note not anything though.

Now here is another interesting little gem that probably does not apply to you.

According to the German "rechtsschreibung" there are times when you should use a "scharfes s" (Mark I have not got a clue how to translate that!) It looks like this.
ß


So you could have a name which is in your passport with this in. According to one side of the Swiss law you MUST have your company name with the exact spelling as in your passport. Interestingly though you are not under ANY circumstances for any company (also GmbH or AG) allowed to use a scharfes s. So what do they do - ban you?
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Old 26.01.2007, 14:13
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Re: How to freelance in CH?

No such thing as DBA(doing business as) in CH? So trade name "Bob Marley design" but DBA "Bob design"? I guess not as we have already been through this...:-)

QUESTION-A

OK I am going for this-

Company name- Bob Marley design
Web- www.Bobdesign.com

All legit Richard?

----------------------------------
For others who are still following this thread. This is the form you need to fill to register with handle registry place-

http://www.hra.zh.ch/internet/ji/hra...wnloadFile.pdf

QUESTION B

I was looking through the registered sole proprietorships. Typically the names are listed like this on the Federal registry website-

Chamäleon Design Lukas Fischer in Zürich, Sole proprietorship, +, CH-020.1.013.288-4

Coiffure Massimo Hairdesign, De Cagna in Winterthur, Sole proprietorship, +, CH-020.1.018.515-3

Christian Stauffer, Computer Aided Design in Embrach, Sole proprietorship, +, CH-020.1.009.108-9

Is everything in BOLD on the registry website supposed to be the registered trading name? OR do they let you put the trading name with a short description of what you do? So the bold text is combination of trading name + short text OR is it the full trading name

Last edited by jamaicanRUM; 26.01.2007 at 23:20.
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