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Old 06.07.2015, 12:15
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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You're starting to ramble, Tom.

Let me put it simply for you:

I do not smoke. Therefore, I would never smoke next to a middle aged person, or a baby, or anyone else. That's because I do not smoke.

I do not have a problem with other people smoking. It is their legal entitlement except in certain places where it is forbidden. At the moment, smoking on open platforms at railway stations is permitted.

I do, however, have a problem with intolerant dickwads who are unwilling to acknowledge the legal rights of others to enjoy themselves as they please. Today they have smokers in their sights, but who will it be tomorrow? Puritans are never happy until everybody acts - and, more importantly, thinks - exactly as they do.

My feelings towards the old gentleman this morning were largely positive - we were sharing a pleasant, quiet moment in the cool air of an Alpine morning. My feelings towards those who would deny him his small pleasures are entirely negative, because they are intolerant, miserable dickwads.

Is that a little bit easier to understand, Tom?
Not really, you never make much sense.

People put up with smoking here because, in the words of lots of Swiss people I know", it's the way it's always been.

That doesn't make it right or healthy or pleasant. And, it's a pretty poor argument for the carry on here.

There's direct democracy here. I'm spreading the word that in other countries, one can't just light up in a children's playground, or paddling pool, or at a sports track and so on. It could be the same here.
People can, and will vote to change the way things are.
I'm sowing a seed in their minds.
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  #442  
Old 06.07.2015, 12:16
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Not really, you never make much sense.
Live and let live.

Clearer now?
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  #443  
Old 06.07.2015, 12:25
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Live and let live.

Clearer now?
No, I think that's a ridiculous, selfish saying.


It's a bit one-sided if, as happened yesterday, we went to the badi and it was fairly packed because of the weather.
Almost everyone around us was smoking - it was like being in a U.K. pub in the eighties.

So, why couldn't I go to the badi and have clean air? The smokers got what they wanted. Why couldn't I have what I wanted?
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  #444  
Old 06.07.2015, 12:27
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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No, I think that's a ridiculous, selfish saying.


It's a bit one-sided if, as happened yesterday, we went to the badi and it was fairly packed because of the weather.
Almost everyone around us was smoking - it was like being in a U.K. pub in the eighties.

So, why couldn't I go to the badi and have clean air? The smokers got what they wanted. Why couldn't I have what I wanted?
There are dozens of badis. What was stopping you from exercising your freedom of choice to go elsewhere?
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  #445  
Old 06.07.2015, 12:31
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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There are dozens of badis. What was stopping you from exercising your freedom of choice to go elsewhere?
We did the week before - we hiked to a mountain lake with beautiful clean mountain air.

This weekend, all the badis were full and we had to be close to home to get kids back and forth to prior engagements.

But yes, if there were non-smoking badis -we'd go there on busy days.
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  #446  
Old 06.07.2015, 12:36
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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But yes, if there were non-smoking badis -we'd go there on busy days.
Looks like a commercial opportunity for someone somewhere.
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  #447  
Old 06.07.2015, 12:48
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

My wife, who's Swiss, and a scientist who has worked in cancer research, said whilst direct democracy is pretty good, it falls down in areas such as public health.
The general public just don't have the knowledge and expertise to make decisions on such complex and emotive subjects as public health issues and possible long and short term outcomes of such issues.

If Switzerland acted like all the other developed countries then smoking would indeed be banned on railway platforms, badis, public play areas and so on.

Just because it isn't doesn't make it a good thing.

Children are now dying because of ignorant and arrogant parents who believe in some mumbo-jumbo which has been written for the internet by some anti-vac people and masquerades as science.
At least California is doing something about it.
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  #448  
Old 06.07.2015, 13:02
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

There was an article in 20 Minuten about the desire to ban smoking on playgrounds here as they have done in France, and of course, there were some 600 or so outraged comments from smokers decrying their loss of freedoms.


http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/21815028
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  #449  
Old 06.07.2015, 14:07
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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There was an article in 20 Minuten about the desire to ban smoking on playgrounds here as they have done in France, and of course, there were some 600 or so outraged comments from smokers decrying their loss of freedoms.


http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/21815028
Unbelievable comments.

Including, "Children see smoking everywhere else so why not in the playground too?"

Which seems to be the general attitude here.

Interestingly, the article mentions badis too.
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  #450  
Old 06.07.2015, 14:24
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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And further, NO there is not enough fresh Alpine air to go around. This country has many positives, but unless I stay inside my house (and sometimes not even then), there is not a day that goes by when I am in this country that I do not have to smell smoke.

It hits me as soon as I leave the house, sometimes it comes in my house when someone decides to smoke in front of the forced air vent in the building and even in the Alps on a hike, someone can be 200m in front of me with an extraordinary smoke trail lingering behind them.

Surely you can understand that as much as you might love to smoke every day, some of us would love to have even ONE day here without having to smell something that makes us want to puke.
Do you use perfume? Even occasionally?
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  #451  
Old 06.07.2015, 14:34
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Do you use perfume? Even occasionally?
I don't.

I agree with Diamondscan.

Can you please find a better argument than that poor excuse for one.
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  #452  
Old 06.07.2015, 14:54
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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We did the week before - we hiked to a mountain lake with beautiful clean mountain air.

This weekend, all the badis were full and we had to be close to home to get kids back and forth to prior engagements.

But yes, if there were non-smoking badis -we'd go there on busy days.

All that and still no bloody train station......
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  #453  
Old 06.07.2015, 15:53
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Live and let live.

Clearer now?
Or maybe live and let die in this case?
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  #454  
Old 06.07.2015, 15:56
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Or maybe live and let die in this case?
He was a wrinkled old goat, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't Roger Moore.
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Old 06.07.2015, 16:36
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Live and let live.

Clearer now?
While I couldn't care less if people were drinking to death or injecting heroin next to me on a train platform, I do mind when they exhale second hand smoke toward me and my children.

Kill and give yourself cancer if you want to, but don't share it with me or my children!!!
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  #456  
Old 06.07.2015, 17:15
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Kill and give yourself cancer if you want to, but don't share it with me or my children!!!
I'm not sure they'd get cancer from some smoke from a couple of cigarettes - although passive smoking in larger amounts has shown to cause various long-term health problems.

But, the big problem with smoking in Switzerland is that it has remained normalised when in other countries, it is perceived as unhealthy and not a good example to set to children.

The number of Swiss non-smokers who just except smoking and shrug their shoulders is huge.
They've got so used to the smoke that they just accept it (and the consequences of it) as a kind of background noise.

I don't want my kids to see smoking as a normal thing like eating an apple or going for a walk.
Yes, I expect they may try one or two as a teenager but I don't want them to see it as a normal habit taken up by most adults as it was in the last century.

Other countries have broken the cycle (or are in the process of doing so).

Switzerland has direct democracy and the people here either are addicts themselves or they simply do not have the gumption to push through stricter bans because they cannot see the bigger picture.

Last edited by Tom1234; 06.07.2015 at 17:41.
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  #457  
Old 06.07.2015, 17:29
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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The number of Swiss non-smokers who just except smoking and shrug their shoulders is huge.
They've got so used to the smoke that they just except it (and the consequences of it) as a kind of background noise.
ACCEPT, not EXCEPT!

Tom
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Old 06.07.2015, 17:33
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I'm not sure they'd get cancer from some smoke from a couple of cigarettes - although passive smoking in larger amounts has shown to cause various long-term health problems.

But, the big problem with smoking in Switzerland is that it has remained normalised when in other countries, it is perceived as unhealthy and not a good example to set to children.

The number of Swiss non-smokers who just except smoking and shrug their shoulders is huge.
They've got so used to the smoke that they just except it (and the consequences of it) as a kind of background noise.

I don't want my kids to see smoking as a normal thing like eating an apple or going for a walk.
Yes, I expect they may try one or two as a teenager but I don't want them to see it as a normal habit taken up by most adults as it was in the last century.

Other countries have broken the cycle (or are in the process of doing so).

Switzerland has direct democracy and the people here either are addicts themselves or they simply do not have the gumption to push through stricter bans because they cannot see the bigger picture.
I completely agree with this... I am really surprised how many people smoke on a regular basis, especially young teens. Clearly schools and parents and advertising do not put anywhere near the effort into anti-smoking sentiments as other developed EU countries if kids think it's so normal. It's a real shame from a country which otherwise sets the bar for healthy people imo.

Last edited by Richdog; 06.07.2015 at 17:45.
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  #459  
Old 06.07.2015, 17:35
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Factsheet on second hand smoke:
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...ealth_effects/

I came across an expectant mother last week. With a month or two to go, she was merrily puffing away.

Some trailblazers at my university managed to bring about a rule preventing smoking in the buildings (I am told that students used to smoke in classes too). This does work, but this now results in wading past clouds of smoke by the entrances. Perhaps that might be a way ahead- a canton/nationwide referendum on smoking...

Last edited by vuachère; 06.07.2015 at 17:37. Reason: adding...
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  #460  
Old 06.07.2015, 17:36
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Surely you can understand that as much as you might love to smoke every day, some of us would love to have even ONE day here without having to smell something that makes us want to puke.
Surely you can understand that as much as you might love to beat this dead horse even further, some of us would love to have even ONE day here without having to read the same idiotic remarks. Alas, I keep hoping.

Peace from a happy ex-smoker
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