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  #461  
Old 06.07.2015, 18:16
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Surely you can understand that as much as you might love to beat this dead horse even further, some of us would love to have even ONE day here without having to read the same idiotic remarks. Alas, I keep hoping.

Peace from a happy ex-smoker
To be fair, you don't need to read this thread but some of us don't have much choice when we're attending the myriad of end of school and kindergarten children and parent activities here where, given any chance the parents feel the need to light up in their hoards in the entrances to school buildings with the doors open as it's hot outside. And then there's the badis and playgrounds that kids want to go to in this weather.

I wrote on another thread that I did have that ONE day without smoke - at an open-air childrens' regional athletics competition that one of my kids was in where smoking was banned everywhere in the complex.

It was absolutely surreal to not have the stands full of people puffing away.
The clean air was so noticeable.
As I've said before, people are so used to smoking here that it's the norm wherever you go.
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  #462  
Old 06.07.2015, 18:30
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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To be fair, you don't need to read this thread but some of us don't have much choice when we're attending the myriad of end of school and kindergarten children and parent activities here where, given any chance the parents feel the need to light up in their hoards in the entrances to school buildings with the doors open as it's hot outside. And then there's the badis and playgrounds that kids want to go to in this weather.
I know Tom, but to be fair - it might be bad, it might be self and others-harming, but it is legal. Until it becomes illegal - does it really make sense to beat the dead horse even more?
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  #463  
Old 06.07.2015, 18:36
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I'm not sure they'd get cancer from some smoke from a couple of cigarettes - although passive smoking in larger amounts has shown to cause various long-term health problems.

But, the big problem with smoking in Switzerland is that it has remained normalised when in other countries, it is perceived as unhealthy and not a good example to set to children.

The number of Swiss non-smokers who just except smoking and shrug their shoulders is huge.
They've got so used to the smoke that they just accept it (and the consequences of it) as a kind of background noise.

I don't want my kids to see smoking as a normal thing like eating an apple or going for a walk.
Yes, I expect they may try one or two as a teenager but I don't want them to see it as a normal habit taken up by most adults as it was in the last century.

Other countries have broken the cycle (or are in the process of doing so).

Switzerland has direct democracy and the people here either are addicts themselves or they simply do not have the gumption to push through stricter bans because they cannot see the bigger picture.
My petpeeve of the moment is all the cigarette butts at the playgrounds

My baby is at that lovely age where he runs very fast on all four and stuff absolutely everything into his mouth.

While I don't really care about grass, leaves and what's not, cigarette butts are another matter ingested nicotine is extremely toxic
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  #464  
Old 06.07.2015, 18:51
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I know Tom, but to be fair - it might be bad, it might be self and others-harming, but it is legal. Until it becomes illegal - does it really make sense to beat the dead horse even more?
Not likely to happen in Switzerland with the current public mindset, is it?
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  #465  
Old 06.07.2015, 18:53
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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My petpeeve of the moment is all the cigarette butts at the playgrounds

My baby is at that lovely age where he runs very fast on all four and stuff absolutely everything into his mouth.

While I don't really care about grass, leaves and what's not, cigarette butts are another matter ingested nicotine is extremely toxic
Our kids were always picking them up when they were younger, too.

I pick up other peoples' litter here if there a bin nearby that they didn't notice but I draw the line at cigarette butts.
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  #466  
Old 06.07.2015, 19:38
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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ingested nicotine is extremely toxic
So how many people, exactly, die from eating cigarette butts each year?

Tom
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  #467  
Old 06.07.2015, 20:00
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

My bugbear yesterday was at the local Badi. Fag butts everywhere - in spite of there being bins, and the sunbathing areas thick with smoke - yes, I know it's open air but there was little wind yesterday.

I'm know this will get me a groan but I'd be for a designated smoking area in the Badis....

Cheers,
Nick
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  #468  
Old 06.07.2015, 20:04
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I'm know this will get me a groan but I'd be for a designated smoking area in the Badis....
There is one: the dry bit.
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  #469  
Old 06.07.2015, 20:07
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Fag butts everywhere
Ah, one of those pools.

I really don't condone that sort of language though.
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  #470  
Old 06.07.2015, 20:38
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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So how many people, exactly, die from eating cigarette butts each year?

Tom
How many people die from eating cat shit? What? None? Must be ok then.
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  #471  
Old 06.07.2015, 20:45
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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How many people die from eating cat shit? What? None? Must be ok then.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jes...b_5544506.html
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  #472  
Old 06.07.2015, 20:52
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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So how many people, exactly, die from eating cigarette butts each year?

Tom
Well, poor parents all over the world run after their offspring to remove the yucky bits and pieces from their mouth!

That being said, even a child won't die after eating one cigarette butt, but a whole cigarette, if swallowed, can make a child very sick. More than one cigarette at the same time can be lethal, as nicotine can cause cardiac arrest.

Sure, a kid must be particularly motivated to eat a whole cigarette, but it can get much more serious with the new vaporette fashion. Liquid nicotine can smell enticing to a young child.
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  #473  
Old 06.07.2015, 21:30
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

What a healthy habit smoking is, plus, what a right it is, too. Forget about the right to grounds, clean water, and clean air - for which we all try to develop technologies to improve, i.e. cars, filters, etc; vices are so much more important than that. Kudos to the marketers who brainwashed these people (including those self-proclaimed intelligent ones) so well! Guess who takes advantage of those with inclinations to addiction.

In the meantime, we all pay for it because this vice is one that affects all of us - we all breathe, and while we can't smell the smell after a while, the particles are still in the air, just more dispersed - so the right of some addicts affects the right of non-addicts.

Just the other day I saw a young family, and the parents were smoking right there next to their sleeping newborn, with the smoke drifting straight into its face. Where is the right of that baby to clean air? Children of smokers are second-hand smokers by default - do these families pay a higher children insurance premium for exposing their kids to cigarette smoke?

I think that cigarettes should be outlawed, and only patches or e-cigs allowed. Let the addicts take the nicotine in without (olfactorily) hurting those around them.
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  #474  
Old 06.07.2015, 21:35
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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while we can't smell the smell after a while, the particles are still in the air, just more dispersed
Round here it's difficult to pick them out between the particles of woodsmoke, exhaust fumes from out-of-towners heading up to Braunwald and cowshit.

I think we can ignore a few scattered particles from old Hans-Ueli's post-breakfast ciggy.
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  #475  
Old 06.07.2015, 22:53
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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How many people die from eating cat shit? What? None? Must be ok then.
How many people die from eating radium, polonium, etc.

If no-one eats cigarette butts, it's a straw-man argument to point out that nicotine in high concentrations is bad.

More kid are likely to die from eating potatoe chips than cigarette butts, be real.

Tom
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  #476  
Old 06.07.2015, 22:54
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Round here it's difficult to pick them out between the particles of woodsmoke, exhaust fumes from out-of-towners heading up to Braunwald and cowshit.
You fogot to mentin the smoke from me smoking various meat, fish, and chiles.

Tom
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  #477  
Old 06.07.2015, 23:22
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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So how many people, exactly, die from eating cigarette butts each year?

Tom
It's not always about dying -is everything so binary in your life?

I only know of a few people personally who have died from lung cancer after heavy smoking but I know a lot more who have given up due to doctors advice and are now, many years later suffering from asthma and other smoking-related illnesses.

Anyway - back to cigarettes and butts ingested by children. Not very much can make them ill. Same goes for pets ingesting cigarettes and butts too.

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Although a typical cigarette contains from 9 mg to 30 mg of nicotine, inhalation through smoking is only about 0.5–2 mg per cigarette. The estimated toxic dose of nicotine in non-addicted adults is 4–8 mg, and the lethal dose after one-time ingestion among children is reported as 40–60 mg.9 Nicotine in tobacco products is rapidly absorbed by oral and intestinal mucosa, and alkalinisation enhances absorption; nicotine-related symptoms develop rapidly (<4 hours) after ingestion.10 These may represent a wide variety of symptoms including nausea, vomiting, salivation and diaphoresis; with severe poisoning, there may be convulsions, bradycardia with hypotension, cardiac arrhythmias and respiratory depression.

Cigarette butts have a bitter taste, and thus this may limit the amount of nicotine that is accidentally ingested. However, children often explore their environment through oral contact or through mimicry of adult behaviours.11 In young children, 1–2 mg may be toxic, causing nausea and vomiting in low doses, and more extensive neurological symptoms with higher doses.12
From here

In case you can't be bothered to read, I'll sum it up:
  • Although a typical cigarette contains from 9 mg to 30 mg of nicotine, inhalation through smoking is only about 0.5–2 mg per cigarette.
  • In young children, 1–2 mg may be toxic, causing nausea and vomiting in low doses, and more extensive neurological symptoms with higher doses.
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  #478  
Old 06.07.2015, 23:29
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I pick up other peoples' litter here if there a bin nearby that they didn't notice but I draw the line at cigarette butts.

Wow.......................
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  #479  
Old 06.07.2015, 23:35
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Wow.......................
I ought to add that I don't always do it -there seems to be more and more of it lately.

My sister take a plastic bag with her when she goes hiking and collects rubbish en-route.

I've seen loads of Swiss people pick up other peoples' litter and put it in the bin too.
I think they're fighting a losing battle now.
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Old 07.07.2015, 00:06
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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IIn young children, 1–2 mg may be toxic, causing nausea and vomiting in low doses, and more extensive neurological symptoms with higher doses.
May be != is.

Inhaling my farts may also be toxic, so what's your point?

Tom
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