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  #501  
Old 08.07.2015, 21:07
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

You're right that money does play a big part in it. In Switzerland, the lack of financial support is why the anti-smoking groups are small and have a poor advertising record.

Still, it's nice to see that the smokers here support some immoral big businesses through their actions. Well done them!
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  #502  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:14
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

So summing this up.

Here are the negatives of smoking:

It stinks
It kills you and those around you
It costs a shit load of money, which you burn up
Causes premature aging
Smoking during pregnancy causes permanent damage to unborn babies
It's addictive
Ruins your appetite
Stops natural hunger sensations
Socially negative

And the one and only reason to smoke:

Because you can (Totally awesome and rational reason of course)

In a few generations we'll look back and wonder what the hell people were thinking who smoked. In the same way that it was OK to send children down mines.
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  #503  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:27
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Anyone ever seen this?

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  #504  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:41
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I was just sitting on our local station platform when an old bugger, in his eighties or nineties, ambled over, sat down on the bench next to me and lit up. He sighed deeply, sat back and slowly drew on his cigarette while enjoying the cool morning air and a spectacular view of the Glaernisch massif. We nodded to each other, then returned to our individual reveries.

I couldn't help but think of this thread, and the torrent of self-righteous, intolerant, judgemental tripe that festers throughout. Which of you could, with a clear conscience, deny this poor old sod his few moments of peace and quiet? Which of you could demand he put his cigarette out for the sake of your own selfish comfort? Isn't there enough fresh Alpine air to go round? What harm is a couple of puffs of smoke compared to the happiness of some old codger who probably hasn't got much time left anyway?

The contrast between that delicious moment of peace and silent companionship and the miserable harping on this thread couldn't have been starker.
Ha ha.I had a similar scenario Monday. After I've been shopping I often go to the restaurant opposite the supermarket for a cold beer and a ciggy while I wait for the bus. An old guy of 80 leaned over and asked he could have one for 50 Rapps, as he doesn't buy packets any more. I said have it for free, but he insisted.
Anyway, we ended up having a nice chat about my part of town, where he was born, and I found out I knew more about it than he did, thanks to http://www.stadtplan.stadt-zuerich.c...stadtplan.aspx which is available for ipad/phone, and android. Impress your Swiss friends with your superior knowledge of their city!
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  #505  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:48
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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In a few generations we'll look back and wonder what the hell people were thinking who smoked. In the same way that it was OK to send children down mines.
What makes you believe that? The only certainty we have is that in a few generations none of the EFeres will be around.
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  #506  
Old 09.07.2015, 12:01
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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What makes you believe that?
Because it's already happening in some more enlightened countries*

* excluding certain countries East of here whose names shall not be mentioned...


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The only certainty we have is that in a few generations none of the EFeres will be around.

And some of them will be gone sooner that others through no accident.
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  #507  
Old 09.07.2015, 12:09
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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So summing this up.

Here are the negatives of smoking:

It stinks
To some people, but then so do farts, BO, bad breath, most perfumes, etc.

I much prefer the smell of smoke, be it wood, tobacco, castrol, etc.

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It kills you and those around you
Kills, no, may have a negative effect on the health of some people, yes.

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It costs a shit load of money, which you burn up
So does drinking,, fine dining, motorcycling, skiing, etc.

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Causes premature aging
Maybe, so so does drinking, fine dining, etc.

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Smoking during pregnancy causes permanent damage to unborn babies
In some cases, but not in most.

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It's addictive
For some people, hardly all.

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Ruins your appetite
Stops natural hunger sensations.
Again, for some people perhaps, not for anyone I've ever known.

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Socially negative
Only if you hang out with the wrong crowd.

Tom
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  #508  
Old 09.07.2015, 12:19
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Ruins your appetite
Stops natural hunger sensations.


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Again, for some people perhaps, not for anyone I've ever known.
Of course it runis your appetite.
This poster proclaims that (and similar posters also confirm all the other things you wrote in your silly post...).



It must be great pretending you live in 1946.
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Old 09.07.2015, 13:15
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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I'm really not obsessed by it.

I thought my observations on the smoking culture in Switzerland and why it's so different from other developed countries were valid and not something others had mentioned.

I thought this was a discussion forum?

Just because you and DB and les autres keep mentioning the phrase "Live and let live" on this forum doesn't necessarily mean it's applicable in every situation.

> culture ?
> and what is soooo different ?
> it is the price of Direct Democracy. If the Canton of Schwyz is happy with the Federal Smoking Ban, so be it. If People from SZ DISlike the far stricter ban in Zürich let them dislike. In a direct Democracy, things move slowly
> the Lungenliga lost last time, not so much due to
--- smokers
--- tobacco industry
but because they wanted to get the whole matter centralized and pushed onto a federal Level --- and I am against centralism and in favour of federalism, in spite of this also being a slow process
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Old 09.07.2015, 13:31
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Because it's already happening in some more enlightened countries*


enlightened by some members of parliament ?
or enlightened by a wise dicator ?


I always had my doubts about direct democracy but hearing people like you I start to give preference to that deliberately complicated process. And whatever you hear from our friend in Ticino, it was the Cantone di Ticino who long before Zurigo approved a smoking ban --- in fact the mother of all smoking bans
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Old 09.07.2015, 14:26
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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in fact the mother of all smoking bans
Ticino - 2005
Ireland - 2004
Canada - first province in 2003
USA - first state with partial ban in 1975


Apparently Mexico banned tobacco in churches in 1575


Ticino is far from being the mother of all smoking bans.
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  #512  
Old 09.07.2015, 14:36
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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enlightened by some members of parliament ?
No, by government advisers in the medical professions.

I'm sure there are lots of very clever and knowledgeable people in the Swiss medical profession who are dismayed by the impotence of the government, or the people, to put a populations' health before other lesser concerns.

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I always had my doubts about direct democracy but hearing people like you I start to give preference to that deliberately complicated process.
As I said, the're nothing wrong with direct democracy for a lot of issues but I think (and others do too) that it falls down when public health is concerned.
(and it's not just smoking but other issues such as the fact that a percentage of the health insurance premiums that we pay each month go towards quack and unproven treatments such as homeopathy).

People are just not objective enough when health is concerned. They simply do not, and cannot address all the issues.

Last edited by Tom1234; 09.07.2015 at 16:48.
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  #513  
Old 10.07.2015, 00:08
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P2z6QJlRbs

Weird, I tried to embed the video but it said the file was invalid.
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  #514  
Old 10.07.2015, 17:32
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Does it last more than ten minutes?

Coz, i may have to go for a cig break....
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Old 10.07.2015, 17:45
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh



You have to embed only the last bit of the youtube text. The part after the equals sign. Then it works OK
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Old 11.07.2015, 02:34
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Ticino - 2005
Ireland - 2004
Canada - first province in 2003
USA - first state with partial ban in 1975


Apparently Mexico banned tobacco in churches in 1575


Ticino is far from being the mother of all smoking bans.

But Ticino was the first state where the PEOPLE in a direct vote put the Smoking ban into effect.- It was NOT government or parliament but really the PEOPLE


And in the USA, People in 1976, 82, 88 and 97 smoked like chimneys, in quite many places
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Old 11.07.2015, 03:03
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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No, by government advisers in the medical professions.

I'm sure there are lots of very clever and knowledgeable people in the Swiss medical profession who are dismayed by the impotence of the government, or the people, to put a populations' health before other lesser concerns.



As I said, the're nothing wrong with direct democracy for a lot of issues but I think (and others do too) that it falls down when public health is concerned.
(and it's not just smoking but other issues such as the fact that a percentage of the health insurance premiums that we pay each month go towards quack and unproven treatments such as homeopathy).

People are just not objective enough when health is concerned. They simply do not, and cannot address all the issues.

No, the People of Ticino DID vote the ban into effect and NOT some "advisors".


You as a non-smoker in Wädenswil profit from the fact that the People in a direct vote forced a good ban into effect, and NEITHER a government nor a parliament. The Cantonal government in Zürich tried to block the ban but had to yield.


Your argument against direct democracy is correct and rubbish at the same time. Lots of questions asked in popular votes are too complicated for most people. In West Germany, Theodor Heuss and Konrad Adenauer opted AGAINST direct Democracy but Germany now is gradually moving towards direct Democracy, at least on state Level. Here in Switzerland we have an almost totalitarian direct Democracy which indeed often is tiring, but it is as it is.


An example. ALL experts confirm that the federal Smoking ban should be valid in all rail stations and in all the halls and on all the Perrons but BOTH Chambers of the Federal parliament decided otherwise. And the rail-stations are owned by the SBB CFF FFS and so NOT under cantonal jurisdiction.


Finally, both the federalism and the direct Democracy are NOT "lesser concerns" but concerns of paramount importance


Public Health is subject to Direct Democracy --
I here quote from the French Version of the Swiss Federal Constitution LE SOUVERAIN C'EST LE PEOPLE
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  #518  
Old 11.07.2015, 11:36
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

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Your argument against direct democracy is correct and rubbish at the same time.
I think you could say the same about all forms of democracy in that they have good points and bad points.

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make.

And if you really think that in Switzerland, it's the people who decide, again it is only up to a point.
A lot will come down to which businesses and political parties have the most money to fund an advertising campaign on the issue to press their point home.
This was what I was saying about the anti-smoking campaigns in Switzerland - they have little money.
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Old 11.07.2015, 15:40
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Tom, i do admire your persistance, in some instances it can be considereda desirable quality, but to continue with your flumadiddle is ! probably not one of these instances.
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Old 11.07.2015, 16:28
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Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

I agree.

The smokers and non and ex smokers could argue until the cows come down from the mountains.

It's about being able to live together.

I say, i am one of the most polite smokers in this country.

You say, but you are poluting the countryside.

Basta - have a good weekend. Smokeless, i hope.

I still love that comment from the person who came here for clean air and mountains and was overcome with cig smoke. Paradise lost.

C'mon - i am sure that most of you had a chuckle about that. He/she should come down to Geneva in a couple of weeks and get high on the amount of pot being smoked. Wonderful addition to the clean air, and organic.

And might put a smile on your grumpy "this is not the Switzerland i imagined" face. Frollicking cows, cute chalets and the man that makes cheese in a mountain hut. They do exist, but not on every street corner. Which is where you will find all those nasty drug dealers and their mangy dogs. Who may or may not ask you for a franc, with no aggression at all.

I go with the flow. But, i do remember how the bar and restaurant owners lost lots of money when the first smoking ban came out. the wee old men who would potter down to the bistrot to have their wine and cigarette were lost. Then they banished that and the restaurants and bars were full again. And now, we all know to go outside. And the restaurants and bars are florishing.

And us smokers know our place. And in all my years as a smoker i have never had a complaint or one of those flaffing hand movements against me.

So Tom. wrap your kids up in their smoke avoidable cotton wool - there will probably be worse things to wrap them up against than a wee bit of second hand smoke as they get older.

Last edited by Patsycat; 11.07.2015 at 16:46.
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