Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #641  
Old 03.09.2015, 10:13
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,354
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,501 Times in 12,071 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
Are you describing yourself?

What many non smokers fail to recognise is that they are completely addicted to nicotine.

I've hardly met any smokers who haven't said that they wish they could give up.

I've known smokers who have used nictotine-gum in long meetings. Is that a pleasure response or addiction response?

You're talking about a really small minority you aren't addicted and smoke for pleasure.
If smoking is just a pleasure for so many and not an addiction-relieving tool then why are so many ex-smokers using vaping-cigarettes instead?

You do understand what an addiction is, don't you?

Most adults in Europe and North America are addicted to caffeine. That doesn't mean that the first espresso of the day or a nice milky latte macchiato can't be pleasurable in addition to providing that essential fix, does it?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #642  
Old 03.09.2015, 10:16
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,783
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,380 Times in 6,645 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
You do understand what an addiction is, don't you?
I suspect he does. It is worth remembering that not everyone who drinks alcohol is addicted to it - and so, in the same way, not everyone who smokes is addicted.

The addiction happens when compulsions overrides control - so that the need for the brain to receive the "hit" (of whatever drug you pick) overrides the logic to say "no". Nictotine is particularly good at this - after all the brain does operate more effectively while nicotine is circulating around - shame the effect is so short lived. The effect of alcohol can also mean the "brain" wants more of it - to replicate the sensations. The same is true of recreational drugs.

We also produce our own "drugs" - the "high" of running up a steep mountain produces elation - and once you have done it once you are quite keen to do it again - often pushing for a bigger "high". Sex also (nice jump DK!!) also does the same thing - with some people seeking more frequent and higher hits.

The process of smoking is not pleasent (whatever the most ardent of smoker will tell you), you inhale into a delicate tissue hot acrid smoke - the first time you do it you cough. Over time the body becomes accustomed to the sensation and adapts - think about running up the Felsenegg - the first few times it hurts like hell as your calves and quads scream as you push harder and harder. Over time (and practice) your body adapts.

I am a non-smoker - but I did smoke when I was younger - but I understand why people do it - and the tricks they tell themselves to make them feel better. I also have a friend who has been "clean" of many addiction for a very long time - and with whom I have had numerous conversations on the topic.
__________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #643  
Old 03.09.2015, 10:17
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
it would be quite new IF the Italians took any laws seriously at all
Yes, it would:

Quote:
Italians obey smoking ban more than Germans...

Italy is enforcing smoking bans in public places well, while in Germany compliance is limited and there are still “massive violations”, a report found this week.

The report, by the Brussels-based Smoke Free Partnership (SFP), rated Italian compliance with smoking bans in bars and restaurants, offices and public transport as “good” while German compliance was “limited”.

Okay, it was an article in the Italian version of the local but still.
Reply With Quote
  #644  
Old 03.09.2015, 10:19
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
Most adults in Europe and North America are addicted to caffeine. That doesn't mean that the first espresso of the day or a nice milky latte macchiato can't be pleasurable in addition to providing that essential fix, does it?
The hit isn't the same. The drug doesn't reach the brain in seconds.

A cup of coffee is more akin to a nictotine patch than a cigarette.
Reply With Quote
  #645  
Old 03.09.2015, 10:23
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,354
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,501 Times in 12,071 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
The hit isn't the same. The drug doesn't reach the brain in seconds.

A cup of coffee is more akin to a nictotine patch than a cigarette.

You're missing the point: one can be addicted to a substance and still gain pleasure from the experience of taking that substance, in a way that is not totally dependent on the action of the drug itself.


Caffeine is addictive, but coffee also tastes nice. It's warm and comforting. It comes in different flavours. A cup of coffee can be associated with a moment of peace, a break from a busy schedule, a chat with friends, a full belly.


Cigarettes are no different.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #646  
Old 03.09.2015, 10:42
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,067
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,589 Times in 9,430 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
If smoking is just a pleasure for so many and not an addiction-relieving tool then why are so many ex-smokers using vaping-cigarettes instead?
Obviously for something other than the nicotine, as those sold in CH don't have nicotine.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #647  
Old 03.09.2015, 12:27
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
You're missing the point: one can be addicted to a substance and still gain pleasure from the experience of taking that substance, in a way that is not totally dependent on the action of the drug itself.
That's not why most people smoke.

But I agree with you about the coffee, or for that matter alcohol, or cream cakes
Reply With Quote
  #648  
Old 03.09.2015, 12:46
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post

What many non smokers fail to recognise is that smoking a cigarette is something that for many people, regular smokers and not, is an enjoyable experience in and of itself.

.
Do you red-blob everyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint?

Yes, smoking itself is pleasurable - people smoke more when, for example, in a pub with alcohol - over and above the requirements to feed their addiction.

But they are still addicted to smoking. That last few frantic draws on a cigarette before one jumps into a railway carriage or bus is not an indication of pleasure.

As for the addiction to nicotine whose cravings are satisfied by the act of smoking. even those smokers who are non-dependent* on nicotine still showed dependency:

Quote:
97% of “dependent” smokers had experienced difficulty cutting down their cigarette consumption, as had 72% of “non-dependent” smokers.
*dependency satisfying at least three out of seven criteria for drug addiction.

Here

So yes people may smoke a cigarette at a particular moment in time for pleasure alone but the majority are still addicted to smoking. Which is not what you are suggesting.

Is that rational enough for you?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #649  
Old 03.09.2015, 15:13
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
That's not why most people smoke.

But I agree with you about the coffee, or for that matter alcohol, or cream cakes

a majority of people does NOT smoke
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #650  
Old 03.09.2015, 15:24
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
a majority of people does NOT smoke
The reason why the majority of people who smoke actually smoke and not "the majority of people smoke".

Read it in context with the other posts.
Reply With Quote
  #651  
Old 03.09.2015, 15:36
Textoch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas, USA (formerly Vaud, CH)
Posts: 1,160
Groaned at 26 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 895 Posts
Textoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
(snip)

Yes, smoking itself is pleasurable - people smoke more when, for example, in a pub with alcohol - over and above the requirements to feed their addiction.

But they are still addicted to smoking. That last few frantic draws on a cigarette before one jumps into a railway carriage or bus is not an indication of pleasure.

(snip)
While I don't want to weigh in on the addiction question, I would like to point out that if I was indeed a smoker, I think my personal compulsion to maximize the value of the products/services I purchase might lead me to suck up the last bit of a cigarette on the train platform before I boarded the train.

It would have nothing to do with pleasure or addiction, it would just stem from the fact that I am cheap.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Textoch for this useful post:
  #652  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:57
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
The reason why the majority of people who smoke actually smoke and not "the majority of people smoke".

Read it in context with the other posts.

That smokers DO smoke is obvious.. But you claimed that here, a majority people smoke
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #653  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:59
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
Most adults in Europe and North America are addicted to caffeine. That doesn't mean that the first espresso of the day or a nice milky latte macchiato can't be pleasurable in addition to providing that essential fix, does it?
That brown watery stuff in North America contains caffeine?

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #654  
Old 04.09.2015, 15:12
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
That smokers DO smoke is obvious.. But you claimed that here, a majority people smoke
I think you have a misunderstanding of some aspects of the English language but that's a minor criticism as your command of English is always going to be a million times better than my German.
Reply With Quote
  #655  
Old 09.09.2015, 15:09
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 45
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
martinrabino has no particular reputation at present
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

I find it really annoying.
In Basel there is a sort of Shopping on the top of the platforms. For me this place is clearly indoor, but it is possible to smoke there, and all people takes this as a rule for life. Go down of the train and smoke as much as possible!
Wherever there is a grey zone or something not clear the people will take as much advantage as possible.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank martinrabino for this useful post:
This user groans at martinrabino for this post:
  #656  
Old 09.09.2015, 15:32
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,855
Groaned at 167 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,886 Times in 3,980 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
Yes, smoking itself is pleasurable - people smoke more when, for example, in a pub with alcohol - over and above the requirements to feed their addiction.

But they are still addicted to smoking.

...

So yes people may smoke a cigarette at a particular moment in time for pleasure alone but the majority are still addicted to smoking. Which is not what you are suggesting.
You seem to now be contradicting yourself; on the one hand you're still insisting that anyone who smokes is addicted to it, but then at the end you seem to accept that this may only be "the majority", which is what I've been saying all along.
Reply With Quote
  #657  
Old 09.09.2015, 16:18
FCBarca's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La Côte
Posts: 608
Groaned at 60 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 510 Times in 246 Posts
FCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Unquestionably, the worst parts of my day en Suisse is the time on the train platform with a bevy of smokers in every direction - I literally walk as far away as I can but you're never really far enough to avoid all the smoke...Of course, I know it used to be worse in the country and this weekend when I was in Basel for the match against Slovenia I realized there are still worse places to endure smoke - how can they allow that inside a stadium, even if it's open air?

Can't believe I'm hopeful about a Philip Morris product but I really wish for iQOS to take off and take the country by storm - vaping tobacco will not only be better for the addicts but more importantly for those wishing not to be forced to passively smoke as well
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank FCBarca for this useful post:
  #658  
Old 09.09.2015, 16:40
meister's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 171
Groaned at 30 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 130 Times in 58 Posts
meister has earned some respectmeister has earned some respect
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
While I don't want to weigh in on the addiction question, I would like to point out that if I was indeed a smoker, I think my personal compulsion to maximize the value of the products/services I purchase might lead me to suck up the last bit of a cigarette on the train platform before I boarded the train.

It would have nothing to do with pleasure or addiction, it would just stem from the fact that I am cheap.
If that's the length one would go to derive maximum value then why wouldn't one with cheapness inclination forego the expensive habit of smoking.

If a smoker forced themselves with this disgusting habit despite the body rejecting it in the first place, then that seems like a very pathetic decision made by the smoker where it clearly doesn't benefit them or others around them.
Reply With Quote
  #659  
Old 09.09.2015, 17:58
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
You seem to now be contradicting yourself; on the one hand you're still insisting that anyone who smokes is addicted to it, but then at the end you seem to accept that this may only be "the majority", which is what I've been saying all along.
97% appear to be addicted in some form or other. Are you the odd 3% and trying to justify your position?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Tom1234 for this post:
  #660  
Old 09.09.2015, 18:27
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,855
Groaned at 167 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,886 Times in 3,980 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
97% appear to be addicted in some form or other. Are you the odd 3% and trying to justify your position?
Justify? There is nothing to justify.

And we all know that 84.3% of statistics such as yours are made up on the spot. I have no idea how many are chemically addicted, but the number of part-time smokers I know suggests a significant proportion who clearly are not.

Me, I've not been smoking for a couple of months now, to help with some specific post-surgical healing, but I certainly will continue to enjoy the odd ciggie or three in the future.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smoking in the balcony :-O jamaicanRUM Complaints corner 156 22.08.2013 15:33
Ch-Ch-Changes - after the Smoking Ban NicM Daily life 14 16.05.2010 14:22
Online Bidding Platforms For Construction btb Commercial 2 26.10.2009 08:07
Smoking in restaurants mark Complaints corner 142 16.08.2008 21:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0