Disclaimer: this is not addressed to those who have medical problems with respect to having babies. It is addressed to those who, IMO, really are borderline as to whether they should have them in the first place… If you have been trying for a baby and have failed due to health reasons or lost babies pre-term, and I know some of you have as per various threads and posts on EF, I apologise in advance for any offence or upset caused, but I really need to rant.

<rant>

What is it about educated couples wanting to have children that makes it so bloody hard?

As the parents of 3, we’ve had friends struggling to conceive ask us (or rather as per Nil’s thread, the Mrs has been asked, us men don’t discuss such matters) for advice. Poor them you might think, but then look at their lifestyles and consider the following:

1. The women under eat. Not just a little dieting here and there, but as in “put a normal plate of food in front of them and they play around with the food trying to hide it under the mash or cabbage leaf” type under eating. It helps if trying to get pregnant, if you’re not bordering on anorexic FFS. These people look perfectly normal and don’t need to diet. In one case the person in question needs to put some weight on – i.e. you’re 30+ not 13.

2. Sex. I hear the Mrs ask “have you been at it?” Answers range from:
Well we’re so tired…
Didn’t really feel like it, it wasn’t special…
I feel like a reproductive hen, it is so off-putting… - in this last case you really need to decide if having a baby is what you want

If by some miraculous chance, the answer is “yes we did”, the next question is “how often and when”, answers range from once to errr… once… and usually at a completely inappropriate time.

Aarrrghh! Just literally f**k off. Literally. Go do it! Lots and lots. It isn’t like a one shot take a pill and be done with it wonder, while conversely you only get one chance a month. These are educated people we’re talking about. Given the birth rates amongst lower social tiers, it doesn’t take much to get pregnant, just base desires.

3. Having a relationship – off-hand comments and jokes like “we have to book ahead to see each other” usually have a grain of truth in them. If you don’t see your other half except at weekends and the female half’s cycle doesn’t match up, you guessed it, nothing's gonna happen!

4. Women’s cycle – and here I going into realms of the unknown – but really if you are serious about it, you need to work out when it’s all optimal. I’m not talking pseudo-science here, nor phases of the moon or best positions. Here’s a simple tip: get a product like the contraceptive kit Persona and use it inversely. No really, it isn’t rocket science.

These people then spend a fortune on getting help from the NHS, using valuable time and money that could be used to save lives, clutching at the hope that really it isn’t their fault but there’s a problem that can be fixed. It is part of the greater malaise the inflicts modern (Western) society. Take responsibility for your actions and their consequences (or lack thereof).

I honestly don’t know if this is already happening, but from what I hear it isn’t, but Drs/GPs who have couples wanting children should ask them to complete a 6-month diary of when/how often they are having sex. Only once they passed this simple “you’re doing it enough” test, should they be put forward for further support.

</rant>

Thank you for your attention. Have a nice day.

You've hit the nail right on the head.

Bonk!

you should be a good friend and volunteer your services, having 3 kids yourself you have proved your upto the job, unless your friend is a bit of a dog of course.

As you and I have both proved

while on the subject

what is it with pregnant people? you casually ask, "what sex is it" and get the reply "We know, but we're not telling people"

WTF is that about, like its a big secret?? its only a choice of 2 and we'll find out in a few months anyway.

This is interesting; I have never met people like these, for sure, but I'll take your word for it. I have friends and acquaintances who've had trouble conceiving, but they definitely do know all about fertility charting, good eating, and the crucial part about sperm and egg meeting.

Almost 10% of couples are infertile (even with frequent intercourse), and female fertility declines sharply after 35, while more and more couples are delaying parenthood. I bet the people you're talking about are a minority among the unsuccessfully trying to conceive.

You're probably quite right, but these people (Edit: these people, as in the ones I am thinking of in my rant) are just blinded to their own stupidity. What you really want to do is give them a proverbial slap and tell them to get on with it, but of course one never does...

I there I was, all ready to offer my congratulations.

Drives me mad too, why not say you don't know!!!!

Cmon, guys, little sensitivity wouldn't hurt...

It's not always so easy, to get pregnant, even if you have all those things on the list checked. I do not really know many docs who get into explaining stuff to people, either. Lack of education, often, like - partying for decades will probably have some effect, not having any physical activity, either, would also influence one's fertility, etc. There is so much fear of unexpected pregnancies, wrong time, wrong partner, wrong age, that leaves the public really think it can happen just like this to anyone, anytime, anywhere, without any prep work. People forget that fertility is rapidly decreasing. The quality of eggs, male sperm (pretty recent, when you think about it, the whole research of sperm quality) and in general, we do not live a healthy life (pollution, degenerative diseases, phtalates? hello? anyone? other toxins? endocrinology? anyone?)...So, I get your harping, but honestly, you can't blame general public for not doing it's homework, when even the experts don't bother keeping people informed. All what media report is just "do not get pregnant" when you don't want it. It's not about smoking, using plastics, hormonal triggers, meds and so on causing our uneducated, comfortable life to be little by little infertile.

As to why keeping the sex secret...Do you know how many kids are born still? There are traumatic things linked to childbirth, it is sometimes just a simple decision to raise the curiosity amongst the family and friends, but sometimes, people do not want to jinx things, or deal with an image of a child, name including, who was not born alive, with all the attention that comes with it...Next time you, guys, will harp about why keep the pregnancy secret the 1st few weeks, too, most women do, since they know too painfully well, things don't have to work out. They do not want attention.

I so love this post because I'm in that place right now. Was this supposed to be funny? Sorry but I kind of LOLd. If this is how you rant, you're very welcome to rant more often. hehe It's not rocket surgery. I'm obsessed about (getting preggo)it but not complaining because somehow I'm in a different boat. Meaning, it's not yet a problem, for now. But when a couple is trying. Especially if its been years. It really bothers the woman... SO SO MUCH. Please be more considerate. I myself annoy my boylet already with this topic since I am now a few days late but irregular.

for 'some' people yes.....

Stephanie, good luck conceiving! And, please, do not use text speak here (u, ur, etc..),so everybody understands. Ta.

thank YOU

Hey.. one shot for me..I got golden bullets...

... I should probably see a doctor about that...

MC, that missed my point.

I'm talking about people who don't even cover the basics - those examples above, I couldn't have made them up. They are real in an, albeit, minority of friends/acquaintances.

Those who have indeed checked all those items and are still not procreating, then yes they should seek and obtain medical help.

However...

By general public, I assume you mean couples wanting to get pregnant? If yes, then yes I can and I will. With the internet and the plethora of web-sites on pregnancy there's simply no excuse.

Edit:

As with getting a dog or other pet, you have to jump through a thousand hoops and do your research. Why should this assumption of having to do your homework be different for a child. After all a child is for life...

For some people they feel that it is expected of them so "try" to have kids but for all the wrong reasons.
Are your friends this type of couple where children don't really fit into their lives?
Sometimes it is easier to "fein" something like infertility rather than just be honest and say "we don't want to have children".

I have met many people over the years who have said they only had children because it was expected of them and unfortunately it shows with the kids. Surely the truth is better than children growning up feeling unwanted and a hinderance to their parents lives.

you can add
1. too much alcohol
2. too much caffeine(more than 1cup/day) and maybe
3. too much sauna/hot baths to the basics as they affect the egg/sperm

I actually thought this rant was going to take a different direction when you referred to "educated couples" ... I (and I include myself in this for the 5 years it took to have my second son) noticed how much educated people try to take over from doctors ... self help is one thing, being an informed patient is another but becoming experts in human reproduction and spouting papers and theories and research .... instead of simply listening to the medical advice on offer. The internet has made specialists of us all, and for the most part it is a brilliant thing, but every so often, I had to remind myself, listen to your doctor because he's quite a specialist, been doing this for years, and has certainly learnt more than I could have done in hundreds of hours of internet searching.

Recently a school colleague confided in me that she is trying to fall pregnant for the first time, at 36years of age, its a bit late. She was asking for advice,
the first step any woman should do is to get to know her body and her cycle.
I told her about the Base Body Temperature, and that she should take her temperature every morning in bed and chart it, after 2-3 months you should see a pattern. Her response, 'Gosh no, I dont have the time for that!!'

No really, and that is the problem, they just dont have the time! and then they whine about feeling like a failure, ect, ect.
making babies are not always a miracle, it takes some work, and commitment.