Hi, I'm new to the Forum but I've been living in Switzerland for seven years now. As many other people I enjoyed most aspects of life in CH, but seeing the ugly side of "Swiss Authority" is making me wish that I could leave tomorrow and never come back.

Here's the story:

Some time ago I was driving my car on a Swiss motorway under heavy rain, and I had an accident due to aquaplaning. The road conditions were appalling, but my car was perfectly legal and the tires were not new but still legal. I was slightly hurt in the accident but my car was declared a write-off by the insurance. After the insurance paid up I thought it was all over... but not so. First I got an arrogant letter from the "investigation bureau" which stated that I had been "declared guilty" and I would have to pay a 2000 Sfr. fine. In what country can you be "declared guilty" by proxy without any evidence and without the possibility of defending yourself?? (NB no other car or object was involved in the accident). Already I had lost all trust in the Swiss justice system. But was it over? No way. I am on business in the UK, and I hear from my wife that now they want to take my driving licence away!! We have a small baby, I am a businessman and I always travel internationally, and before this accident I had NEVER had anything more than a parking fine.

I HATE THESE BUREAUCRATS. I would so want to leave the country, withdraw all my money and move to a more friendly nation. IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO TO STOP THEM FROM RUINING MY LIFE??? They can have my money if they are so greedy, but I NEED MY DRIVING LICENCE

PS - I don't have legal insurance and I am not going to pay for a lawyer knowing that as a foreigner I will probably lose the case anyway.

So based on the facts you mention, it appears you have lost control of your car and have had an accident. This per se is an offense (driver must retain at all times control of the vehicle - not only a Swiss law prescription).

Since no other car nor object was involved, the only conclusion is that what caused your loss of control was inadequate speed considering the road conditions - so no mitigating circumstances, and no need for further evidence.

What would be your line of defense, by the way?

Let me reassure you, if you had a Swiss passport it wouldn't save you one single bit.

If you were driving in the UK and lost control of your car you would be convicted of driving without due car and attention. Heavy rain is not a defense.

If another driver lost control and crashed into you would you accept that it was not their fault because of heavy rain and not hold them responsible for the damage ?

I do not get this at all, why is this an offense that allows them to take away his licence? That seems way over the top

My line of defense:

1) My speed was way under the speed limit (<100 Km/h) and aligned to the speed of all the other vehicles present on the road at the time
2) All the witnesses stated that I was not doing anything stupid but simply accelerating after coming in from a slip road
3) My car was legal

The true reason of the accident is that my car (a sportscar) had very wide tires (295's at the back). Wide tires aquaplane more easily than narrow tires, and the road was completely soaked with a deadly mix of old oil and water (the oil reflections are clearly visible on the pictures taken by the police: the whole surface of the road was completely oily). However, they completely ignored this fact. They stated that "many other cars had gone through and had no accidents". Yes, but they didn't have tires as wide as mine (and probably less power too - which is a factor in losing traction more easily). But insofar as my car was LEGAL, how am I supposed to know that by travelling just as fast as everyone else I would lose control? Then they should make sportscars with wide tires illegal in the rain! This is a ridiculous case. I lost my car and I was lucky to survive, and now I feel persecuted by the law.

Considering that until now I had only committed very trivial traffic offences, I would expect at least this to be a serious mitigating factor. There are idiots driving cars at 200 Km/h in small country roads where the police doesn't check speed, that are far more dangerous. Why don't they go after them rather than harassing an honest businessman that has far more important things to think about.

Loss of control at speed on the motorway - car totalled, so severe incident; there you go. Has happened to a (swiss) friend of mine as well.

Excuse me but that is totally risible; going down that road only demonstrates you do not know how your car is supposed to behave and lends further creedence to a justified reckless driving charge. I wouldn't try that stunt in court if I were you.

By the way, slick oily films and strong rain usually don't go together.

Quote /Question: In what country can you be "declared guilty" by proxy without any evidence and without the possibility of defending yourself? (in a court of law)
Answer: Any European country that operates with the legal system we have in Switzerland. It's not case law like in the UK or US. Here you are effectly guilty until you prove yourself to be innocent. And that means you have to have th emeans to do it...

A few years ago, in winter, as I was gently pulling up to a small-town junction and braking, my car refused to brake and slid gently (but uncontrollably i.e. I was helpless to control it sliding) into the back of another bumper of a people carrier. Exactly where I was pulling up /braking, there was a lump of ice that the Gemeinde has missed when clearing the roads. And I had not seen becuase it was hidden under new snow. The cause of the incident was the lump of frozen ice . But whose "fault" was it that I was unable to brake on it? My misfortune in terms of bureacracy was that that particular vehicle happened to be driven by a visitor from BRD. Fortunately ! the incident happened right outside the local police station so I was able to benefit first hand from the expert advice that I "must be able to stop at all times". Meaning without offence. That's the crux of my story - and by the sound of it also of yours.

I feel with you completely. The rage and the unjustness. I really do.

On the other side of the coin I have come to understand (learning by doing) that the skill of arguing the case is the essence of justice ..er sorry ..justness. With a good lawyer anything is possible. The law is the law. And the only way is not to try to "beat the system" but to be clever in the way you work (with) it. Understanding how to interpret the law. Knowing who can do that with excellence and you're half way there. You might, though, have to do a deal with yourself first. And the door is wide open ...

Personally, I think you need to talk to a lawyer. S/he might be able to get your license back for you, get you a stay of execution (of the penalty) or at the least explain the position of the police/insurance/persecutors.

Ok, what about this, the poster follows one of those save driving courses, that make you slip etc. and test the car on bad road surfaces, then presents the certificate to whichever organisation is doing the persecutiong, with a statement that he is now better aware and equipped to deal with difficult road conditions, also important considering the family etc..

Might that help stave off the licence drama?

That sounds as though it was the first strong rain after a long dry period. Both oil and rubber accumulate on roads during dry weather, and the first strong rain loosens them from the road surface.

Uh-huh, suuure.

Possible, but still no excuse (a factor for extra caution if anything).

"Hello Judge, I drive a street-legal sportscar, so I assume it must handle same as a family estate. It's really the manufacturer's fault. Can we negotiate?"

Indeed.

Indeed. They should have blow-dried the highway until it was sparkling dry. Someone should sue them.

All you are saying there is that you have a powerful car that you don't know how to control under wet conditions.

Be thankful you didn't injure someone, and if you continue to drive a car like that, get specialist lessons on how to handle it in a wide variety of situations.

Hey hey hey... don't start being offensive. You have NO idea who I am. As it happens I am a semi-professional racing driver, I have LOADS of experience driving 500+ horsepower cars in dry/wet conditions at very high speed and I have NEVER caused an accident in 300,000 Kms driven on and off the track. On that same day I had driven through appalling conditions over 3 mountain passes without any problems. And my wife can testify to how I was always sensibly driving under the speed limits (she was following behind with her car, we were returning from a track weekend in Italy).

This was a FREAK accidents like it can happen to anyone, and I wish you never have to experience what I went through. My point here is that I find it totally unfair that I should be judged guilty for a freaky, unlucky accident. Why should I pay for my bad luck? And what about mitigating circumstances?

You are such an... I will omit any insults because I am too much of a gentleman but you are unworthy of any further comments. I just hope you never experience what I did. Jerk.

I was taught the tip about oil and rubber building up on roads during a dry spell many years ago. I am sure I've seen it in some form of public safety announcements (perhaps in the UK?).

Indeed. I once had a BMW which had a habit of going sideways in the wet if you gave it too much throttle. BMWs of that era were well known for that problem, so if you had one, you drove extra cautiously in slippery conditions.

when i was the first day ever on the motorway, right away after i got my license handed out after the driving test, i crashed the car when i was taking over a lorry. i feared i was to close to the truck and pulled the car jumpy to the left where i bumped in the crash barrier and back into the side of that truck..out of control i bounced from left to right and back again. when the car stopped, the front part was reaching onto the road and one driver crashed into it. it caused a jam right there...police showed up etc. (fortunately they did not see the damage on the barrier) wrote a record, called the wrecker guy...and all the was happening was, that my moms insurance charged 3% more after that...all happend in germany to a novice driver. no lost of licence, no extra charges, fees, fines...nothing. just a lost car.

i think its an unlucky accident and a very hard decision. crashed car, 2000stutz and a licence to hand in without any hearing is very tuff and strict.

well, better get a legal insurance for future issues like that.

Actually, as far as the UK is concerned, this is not quite correct.

You could be charged with Driving Without Due Care and Attention, Dangerous Driving or Causing Death My Dangerous Driving. All the prosecution has to show is that you lost control of your car and an accident resulted and once they have done that there is a prima facie case against you and from that point on you are effectively guilty unless you can prove your innocence.

A defence that you were driving a high powered sports car that had bad road holding in the wet wouldn’t stand a chance and I can’t see any lawyer even trying that one


All that would do is tell the court he didn’t know how to control the car. Case proven !