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Old 13.10.2011, 16:34
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

As Zurich HB is such a vast place, open sides and very high roof, is this really a problem. It can get busy at times but never to the point when you stand like sardines in a can ie Tokyo or London.
As a smoker I do try to move away from people so they do not get a wiff, especially if I see children. I sometimes find it strange however when you think you have found a quiet spot and someone practically stands on your toes and then looks disapprovingly at you smoking.
For all the toxic cig smoke at the station we do have some fantastic air just around the corner.
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Old 13.10.2011, 16:53
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

I will get slated for this but I was led to believe that the tax on cigarettes in the UK is something like 90% of the £7 charged per packet and that if every smoker gave up tomorrow the Health Service would be in serious trouble due to the billions that disappeared from the fund ....just saying and please feel free to correct me........
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Old 13.10.2011, 17:02
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I will get slated for this but I was led to believe that the tax on cigarettes in the UK is something like 90% of the £7 charged per packet and that if every smoker gave up tomorrow the Health Service would be in serious trouble due to the billions that disappeared from the fund ....just saying and please feel free to correct me........

They could tax junk food instead
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  #44  
Old 13.10.2011, 17:03
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I will get slated for this but I was led to believe that the tax on cigarettes in the UK is something like 90% of the £7 charged per packet and that if every smoker gave up tomorrow the Health Service would be in serious trouble due to the billions that disappeared from the fund ....just saying and please feel free to correct me........
Oh no you're totally right.

Last year smoking cost the NHS £5 Billion.

The revenue from smoking was double that......
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Old 13.10.2011, 17:08
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I will get slated for this but I was led to believe that the tax on cigarettes in the UK is something like 90% of the £7 charged per packet and that if every smoker gave up tomorrow the Health Service would be in serious trouble due to the billions that disappeared from the fund ....just saying and please feel free to correct me........

Similar scenario in the U.S. Massive taxes as a percentage of the retail price of cigarettes. The states often fund "stop smoking" campaigns with this money.
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Old 13.10.2011, 17:10
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

But the revenue isn't ringfenced for the NHS. You might just as well say all smokes are murderers because their tax contribution goes on nuclear weapons.
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  #47  
Old 13.10.2011, 17:11
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I will get slated for this but I was led to believe that the tax on cigarettes in the UK is something like 90% of the £7 charged per packet and that if every smoker gave up tomorrow the Health Service would be in serious trouble due to the billions that disappeared from the fund ....just saying and please feel free to correct me........
I think this is what you were looking for
Excise VAT Total £ billion 1990-91 5.6 1.1 6.8 1991-92 6.3 1.5 7.8 1992-93 6.0 1.5 7.6 1993-94 6.5 1.6 8.1 1994-95 7.4 1.7 9.1 1995-96 7.3 1.7 9.0 1996-97 8.0 1.8 9.8 1997-98 8.4 1.8 10.1 1998-99 8.2 1.8 10.0 1999-00 5.7 1.8 7.5 2000-01 7.6 1.8 9.4 2001-02 7.8 1.8 9.6 2002-03 8.1 1.9 9.9 2003-04 8.1 1.8 9.9 2004-05 8.1 1.8 9.9 2005-06 8.0 1.9 9.8 2006-07 8.1 1.9 10.0 2007-08 8.1 1.9 10.0 2008-09 8.2 1.8 10.0 2009-10 8.8 1.7 10.5 2010-11 (p) 9.1 2.0 11.1
Source: HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) / TMA

This table shows the revenue raised through the sale of all tobacco products in the UK. The source for the excise duty is HMRC while the VAT is a TMA estimate.
TMA being 'Tobacco Manufacturers Association'


On the flip side
Smoking costs the NHS more than £5 billion a year - up to five times the previously accepted figure, researchers have revealed.
Thats from an article in 2009 so it could have changed
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  #48  
Old 13.10.2011, 17:12
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I smoke fairly constantly when waiting for a bus or tram (secretly, I think Zurich has timed the buses and trams every 6-7 mins so if you miss one you have time for a cigarette ) But I am very aware of the dislike it might bring to others, so I always get myself as distant'd as possible. Almost everytime there is one or two people who walk up, seeming out of their way to stand in my personal space--with an entire empty platform to do what they please with. Blows my mind, but at what level and boundary do I have to go out of my way for them. You don't like the smokers at the buses or trams, take a taxi or a car. It's a public space and you will deal with all social levels of the public when you use it regardless of your assumed superiority.
That is so true and crazy!!!

I am a smoker, not proud of it, but it's a fact. I don't smoke at home nor in enclosed spaces ever, as a result of a very strict education by my family, who forbade smoking in the house for everyone and anyone.

If I smoke sitting at a cafe or restaurant or whatever, assuming that the "smoking police" (a.k.a. my boyfriend) is not complaining already before I lit up, I ask people around me in my party and in adjacent tables if that bothers them, out of common courtesy - in 99% of cases the reply is "not at all, we are outdoors, but thanks for asking". I think that living several years in California has made me a bit of a paranoid smoker, always worried that someone, somewhere, might be bothered...

This really gets to me though: if I stand at the tram stop or at the train station, I usually smoke right next to the ashtray (never under the platform cover or sitting down). Could someone explain to me why some people will insist on standing right next to me and the ashtray, and then, more or less indirectly, complain about the smoke? I am doing all I can to be a considerate smoker, but really??? The platform is a big space, you can sit down far from me, but if you choose to stand right next to the ASHTRAY while I am smoking, well, then you will get second hand smoke, because I ain't movin'!
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  #49  
Old 13.10.2011, 17:15
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

Must apologise the table looked fine until it posted
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  #50  
Old 13.10.2011, 17:26
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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But the revenue isn't ringfenced for the NHS. You might just as well say all smokes are murderers because their tax contribution goes on nuclear weapons.
And there's the costs of smoking to the NHS that are not included in these measurements.

When less-well-off families have both parents smoking, the 20GBP pound a day that combined, they are spending on cigarettes is 140GPB a week that they are not spending on food for themselves and their kids and, funnily enough, the biggest criticism they have of healthy eating is the cost of fresh fruit and vegetables so they eat cheap, processed junk instead.
(The argument applies to alcohol as well).

There's also the people who gave up ten years ago but are still going to die of long, drawn-out and extremely costly lung cancer. I don't believe these people feature in the simple equation either.

Actually, that's not the whole story as a massive percentage of cigarettes smoked in the U.K. come from a grey or black market and many of these cigarettes are copies of well-known brands but with excessively toxic chemicals in them.
These put people in hospital quicker without the benefits of the tax revenue.

It's not a pretty picture but smoking's cool when you're young and you think you're invincible.
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Old 13.10.2011, 17:29
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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It's not a pretty picture but smoking's cool when you're young and you think you're invincible.
I can't even count the number of high school and college classmates who picked up the habit, and rationalized it, saying, "Oh, I'll quit before it gives me cancer."
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  #52  
Old 13.10.2011, 17:50
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

Bring back the steam trains and let's all live in smoke together!

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Thanks for the info, I'm not having a go at smoker's.... it's just that if I ever decided to commit suicide then I wouldn't want to take everyone else with me.....

If it's normal then I guess I'll just be the one standing at the end of the platform on his own.... and everyone is happy....
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  #53  
Old 13.10.2011, 18:54
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Odd thing about me and living in Switzerland is that I hate cheese. I detest the stuff (that should get me a groan or 2). The smell of it really does make me want to (and on 1 occasion did) throw up.

So whenever I am in the kitchen at work eating my lunch or having a chat, and somebody comes in with food that stinks to high heaven in a way that makes me physically ill, I don't ask them to stop eating or leave the room (even if I was there first), I just move myself away from them.

I don't make comments on how the cholesterol will give them a heart attack, or say that in my eyes they are revolting creatures. After all, whilst somebody might agree with me, it is my own personal view and not a statement of fact.

Nor do I suggest that somebody places a jar of marmite under their nose if they find it unplesant.
Sure, because cheese is totally like smoking. ;p News to me that smoking being harmful is personal opinion and not fact...
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  #54  
Old 13.10.2011, 19:44
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Sure, because cheese is totally like smoking. ;p News to me that smoking being harmful is personal opinion and not fact...
News to the poster you replied to as well - I think?
Their opinion was about cholesterol causing heart attacks, and in the time-honoured manner of writing, stated that as their opinion, and not a fact open to dispute, just their own opinion.

Smoking can cause death, same as driving an auto can cause death, or any number of stupid things causing death. But in the end ...... everyone is going to face death - hacking away from diseased lungs, or atrophying muscles, or heart failure, a stroke, or whatever.

Strange fact is that in my little cow town village here we got stacks of old men .... around the 80 to 99 year age group ... who have smoked all their lives ... and they die ... not from their smoking, just plain old age!
The difference, possibly, is that they are active people, who walk to where they want to go ..... and engage in physical activities.

People who do stressful sedentary jobs, drive everywhere, play no sports, and smoke ....... well ....... of course the smoking is going to do something horrible to them!
Like eating all day! Sit on your bum and eat fatty starchy food you`re going to get obese - and unhealthy.

And a fact is: Obese people cost medical health much more than smokers.
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Old 13.10.2011, 19:55
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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But the revenue isn't ringfenced for the NHS. You might just as well say all smokes are murderers because their tax contribution goes on nuclear weapons.
Good comment. It's just like the car tax and petrol tax which does not go to fixing the roads and building new infrastructure. Sorry for going off thread.
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Old 13.10.2011, 20:05
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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News to the poster you replied to as well - I think?
Their opinion was about cholesterol causing heart attacks, and in the time-honoured manner of writing, stated that as their opinion, and not a fact open to dispute, just their own opinion.

Smoking can cause death, same as driving an auto can cause death, or any number of stupid things causing death. But in the end ...... everyone is going to face death - hacking away from diseased lungs, or atrophying muscles, or heart failure, a stroke, or whatever.

Strange fact is that in my little cow town village here we got stacks of old men .... around the 80 to 99 year age group ... who have smoked all their lives ... and they die ... not from their smoking, just plain old age!
The difference, possibly, is that they are active people, who walk to where they want to go ..... and engage in physical activities.

People who do stressful sedentary jobs, drive everywhere, play no sports, and smoke ....... well ....... of course the smoking is going to do something horrible to them!
Like eating all day! Sit on your bum and eat fatty starchy food you`re going to get obese - and unhealthy.

And a fact is: Obese people cost medical health much more than smokers.
You're missing the point. The poster is comparing other unhealthy acts with smoking, then going on to emphasize their 'tolerant' reaction. Smoking harms those around you. Eating too much crap does not. And no, being a gaseous mofo is not akin to the harm from secondhand smoke, unfavorable as it may be.
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Old 13.10.2011, 20:19
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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You're missing the point. The poster is comparing other unhealthy acts with smoking, then going on to emphasize their 'tolerant' reaction. Smoking harms those around you. Eating too much crap does not. And no, being a gaseous mofo is not akin to the harm from secondhand smoke, unfavorable as it may be.
Cost of UK obesity... cost of £22.5bn by 2050 if nothing is done.
More than £32million a year is being spent on weight- loss surgery
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Old 13.10.2011, 20:21
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

[QUOTE=little_isabella;1375480]You're missing the point. The poster is comparing other unhealthy acts with smoking, then going on to emphasize their 'tolerant' reaction. Smoking harms those around you. Eating too much crap does not. And no, being a gaseous mofo is not akin to the harm from secondhand smoke, unfavorable as it may be.[/?

Nein, I`m not missing any points. Merely pointing out that you missed their point and misinterpreted what was written. The object under discussion was Cheese. Not smoke.

Eating a lot of crap does also affect others, like one`s family who have to watch the obese one waddling around on swollen legs, short of breath, organs suffocating in fat layers - crap food also causes cancers, which also cost families their life savings.

With smoke one can always move upwind of the smoker. Stalking a Rhino one would move downwind - so it does not smell you stalking it. Why would anyone want to stalk a Rhino? Why would anyone stand next to a smoker, or the communal ashtray?

Hey! At least you get smoke-free restaurants these days!

In Schaffhausen there are "smoker restaurants" ...... and they do a thriving business, otherwise they would not be in business.
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Old 13.10.2011, 20:34
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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You're missing the point. The poster is comparing other unhealthy acts with smoking, then going on to emphasize their 'tolerant' reaction. Smoking harms those around you. Eating too much crap does not. And no, being a gaseous mofo is not akin to the harm from secondhand smoke, unfavorable as it may be.
Standing next to someone on a railway platform, however unpleasant, is unlikely to do you any harm.

Spending all night in a smoky pub or being in a car daily with a smoker could do you permanent harm. It tends to affect children more.
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Old 13.10.2011, 20:36
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Cost of UK obesity... cost of £22.5bn by 2050 if nothing is done.
More than £32million a year is being spent on weight- loss surgery
Not sure why you've quoted me and replied in this way. My post wasn't referring to "harm" in the sense of healthcare costs but rather, in terms of morbidity and mortality.
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