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  #81  
Old 14.10.2011, 21:35
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Common here. I was wondering about bus shelters. Smoking in bus shelters is banned in many countries but I see it a lot here. Banned here as well or no?
Bus shelter ? If it is a closed facility, smoking is prohibited, if it however only is a covered facility, smoking is allowed
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  #82  
Old 14.10.2011, 21:50
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Switzerland is a bit backward on smoking. People are generally healthy and go hiking and stuff, and don't drop litter. But they smoke like chimneys and drop fag butts (no double meaning intended) on the pavement.
A bit backward ? Not really a majority of Cantons but Cantons who together make up THE majority of Switzerland have decided in favour of smoking bans by POPULAR VOTE. Where else did/do you have popular votes about the matter ? Those who started the proposals had to be careful not to be too radical. They at the other hand counted on the majority of NON-smokers and won
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Old 14.10.2011, 22:53
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Hi,

You need to remember the unwritten rules of the EF:
- The EF has a team of elevated equestrians - membership of which is top secret - whose job it is to groan and bad-rep on sight any newbie who writes on one of a number of topics within their first ten posts

- The list of topics includes but is not limited to: smoking, expensive shops / restaurants, dogs, brown sugar, salaries, public transportation

And to keep on topic, I would say Switzerland has made some great leaps forward with regard to the smoking topic - not least in bars and restaurants. For backwards attitudes on smoking you need to go to Vienna. Like the OP, I really get annoyed with smokers who light a fag at the tram stop when the next one is a minute away, then as the tram pulls up, take one enormous drag, throw the lit end into the gutter, step on the tram then exhale thus stinking the whole tram out.

As a cyclist my other pet hate is lit cig butts being flicked out of moving car windows. Why can't laser guns be fitted to bike handlebars?

Cheers,
Nick

Hey Nick,

I think this is one of the best posts I've ever read on EF. Its too bad that the forum veteran's like to waste everyone's time with useless comments and beratings of new people dealing with the frustrations of living in a new culture. Its as if these people had never moved to a new culture before (which seems unlikely since this is the English Forum and this country speaks 4 languages that aren't English if I remember correctly). I think EF loses a great deal of its usefulness because of the time-wasters, but in reality, maybe posts like the original posting here don't really matter. The OP (like me) is likely not a citizen with any sort of power in Switzerland to start any sort of political action against smoking in such places as tram stops, so we are really just complaining to hear ourselves complain, I guess...I like to think of it as searching for commiserators though. So, along those lines:

CoderMark - I'm with you. Try the farting method. It makes the teenager in you happy.

Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich
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  #84  
Old 14.10.2011, 23:10
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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The OP (like me) is likely not a citizen with any sort of power in Switzerland to start any sort of political action against smoking in such places as tram stops
l
Even if him and your WERE people "with any sort of power" you could NOT start any sort of political action to extend the smoking bans. Right at present we here have a Federal Ban which is a minimum standard, also in force in those a bit backward Cantons who did NOT implement a smoking ban, and Cantonal bans in force of the a bit more modern Cantons (actually a popular majority but a minority of Cantons). The smoking lobby tried to overturn the Cantonal ban in Solothurn in favour of the far more lenient Federal ban, but were turned down by the people. Nobody wants to destabilize the status-quo, so that what might come later are additional laws
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Old 16.10.2011, 00:01
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I smoke fairly constantly when waiting for a bus or tram (secretly, I think Zurich has timed the buses and trams every 6-7 mins so if you miss one you have time for a cigarette ) But I am very aware of the dislike it might bring to others, so I always get myself as distant'd as possible. Almost everytime there is one or two people who walk up, seeming out of their way to stand in my personal space--with an entire empty platform to do what they please with. Blows my mind, but at what level and boundary do I have to go out of my way for them. You don't like the smokers at the buses or trams, take a taxi or a car. It's a public space and you will deal with all social levels of the public when you use it regardless of your assumed superiority.
First, thanks for your consideration in moving away. I think the majority of the people who've posted on this thread likely agree with me there. Maybe those people who walk up close to you enjoy the smoke, for some reason.

Second, take a taxi or a car? In this country? I would have to give up eating meat, or cheese, or really anything not on sale, stop using a phone, never buy new clothes, and spend my lunch-hour panhandling. Some of us don't have a choice when it comes to transit methods.

If you want to open that can of fish, why not ban smoking on public property, and make the smokers find alternatives. After all, they're the ones actively doing something, while the rest of us are forced to deal with their decision. A lot of the time, I can't find a part of the platform that doesn't have polluted air, and going through the Baden bahnhof pretty much guarantees you'll have to walk through a few sections where the smoke is simply unavoidable. That's what gets me pissed off. The latter part, particularly - they couldn't wait until they've made it back outside? They have to leave these lingering clouds that spread outward?

Personal opinions about the intelligence of smoking aside (which I hope I've managed to filter, at least mostly), I have nothing against smokers, as long as they keep their smoke away from me. I have friends and relatives who smoke, and they're always careful to do just that. Hence, we get along just fine, though extended hugs from certain aunts and uncles do make me hold my breath
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  #86  
Old 16.10.2011, 01:09
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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First, thanks for your consideration in moving away. I think the majority of the people who've posted on this thread likely agree with me there. Maybe those people who walk up close to you enjoy the smoke, for some reason.

Second, take a taxi or a car? In this country? I would have to give up eating meat, or cheese, or really anything not on sale, stop using a phone, never buy new clothes, and spend my lunch-hour panhandling. Some of us don't have a choice when it comes to transit methods.

If you want to open that can of fish, why not ban smoking on public property, and make the smokers find alternatives. After all, they're the ones actively doing something, while the rest of us are forced to deal with their decision. A lot of the time, I can't find a part of the platform that doesn't have polluted air, and going through the Baden bahnhof pretty much guarantees you'll have to walk through a few sections where the smoke is simply unavoidable. That's what gets me pissed off. The latter part, particularly - they couldn't wait until they've made it back outside? They have to leave these lingering clouds that spread outward?

Personal opinions about the intelligence of smoking aside (which I hope I've managed to filter, at least mostly), I have nothing against smokers, as long as they keep their smoke away from me. I have friends and relatives who smoke, and they're always careful to do just that. Hence, we get along just fine, though extended hugs from certain aunts and uncles do make me hold my breath
Once again, I am much in favour of extending the smoking ban, but you in view of Cantons like Schwyz where only the Federal ban applies, have to take it step by step, AND most of all, any extension has to be brought forward as an addirtional law. For instance a law about smoking on public transport facilities. This is what here is called "Salami-Taktik" = slice by slice
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Old 17.10.2011, 13:38
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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...The OP (like me) is likely not a citizen with any sort of power in Switzerland to start any sort of political action against smoking in such places as tram stops, so we are really just complaining to hear ourselves complain, I guess...
WRONG (kinda) - everyone can take political action if they really want to. Just because you can't vote doesn't mean you can't start up an interest group and start collection signatures for a local, cantonal or national referendum if you think you've found an issue that is actually a real issue (and not just something that bothers you but no-one else). 100 000 will get you a national referendum. You might need some help from others, but that's what democracy is about. You can also approach a political party with a subject if you feel strongly enough about it.

On the issue of (passive) smoking however, things are already rolling. There initiative of the "Lungenliga" should come to a referendum next year some time I believe, and if accepted bring stronger and FEDERAL laws on smoking in restaurants.
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Old 17.10.2011, 22:04
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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WRONG (kinda) - everyone can take political action if they really want to. Just because you can't vote doesn't mean you can't start up an interest group and start collection signatures for a local, cantonal or national referendum if you think you've found an issue that is actually a real issue (and not just something that bothers you but no-one else). 100 000 will get you a national referendum. You might need some help from others, but that's what democracy is about. You can also approach a political party with a subject if you feel strongly enough about it.

On the issue of (passive) smoking however, things are already rolling. There initiative of the "Lungenliga" should come to a referendum next year some time I believe, and if accepted bring stronger and FEDERAL laws on smoking in restaurants.
tomberli - I have my doubts that it would be possible for me to get 100,000 signatures without speaking much (ok any) Swiss German. Its likely that they'll re-legalize smoking indoors before I get those signatures.

I think the thing that the original poster is bothered by (myself included) is that the current smoking bans seem like something that most of the rest of the Western world already passed ages ago and not really enough. Of course, the restaurant ban is great, but that should have been done ages ago and many other cities are passing laws against smoking at the exits to buildings and at public transportation stops. Its just weirdly and surprisingly popular here to blow smoke into someone else's face and that's hard to get used to for us newbies. It would take a cultural shift of epic proportions that seems highly unlikely to get all of those signatures, so I guess myself and the OP and others are mostly just complaining.
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Old 17.10.2011, 22:15
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

To the OP: is this the station you use?



If so, it would appear that there is plenty of room for everyone.

Live and let live?
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Old 17.10.2011, 22:58
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

Yes, there are a lot of smokers in Switzerland! This comes as a surprise in a country where lifestyles are generally rather healthy.

It is fortunate that smoking is now prohibited in restaurants, shops and offices. Most smokers seem to restrict smoking to the outdoors.

This means that when outdoors smoke dodging becomes necessary for all of us who do not appreciate those smelly fumes!
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  #91  
Old 17.10.2011, 23:13
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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tomberli - I have my doubts that it would be possible for me to get 100,000 signatures without speaking much (ok any) Swiss German. Its likely that they'll re-legalize smoking indoors before I get those signatures.

I think the thing that the original poster is bothered by (myself included) is that the current smoking bans seem like something that most of the rest of the Western world already passed ages ago and not really enough. Of course, the restaurant ban is great, but that should have been done ages ago and many other cities are passing laws against smoking at the exits to buildings and at public transportation stops. Its just weirdly and surprisingly popular here to blow smoke into someone else's face and that's hard to get used to for us newbies. It would take a cultural shift of epic proportions that seems highly unlikely to get all of those signatures, so I guess myself and the OP and others are mostly just complaining.
Ages ago ? Come on, happily into the 1990ies, Italians and French and Brits in bars and bistros and cafeteria were smoking rather more than people here did.

Who is to RElegalize smoking indoors ?

Who is "blowing smoke into someone else's face" ? Some badly behaving teenagers ? or whom exactly ? Or just some thoughtless smoker ?

The Lungenliga waited until they could be sure to win the votes in the Cantons. Let's not forget that those Cantonal bans were and are in a way more important than the Federal ban, which is just a minimum standard adopted as a compromise between the more progressive Cantons (minority of Cantons but majority of people) and the more backward peoples. The Lungenliga now is preparing a Federal popular vote to bring up the Federal ban to the level of the ones in force in Geneva, Basel, Zürich and Ticino (and some others). This has to be the priority, and not radical notions and ideas.
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Old 17.10.2011, 23:17
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Yes, there are a lot of smokers in Switzerland! This comes as a surprise in a country where lifestyles are generally rather healthy.

It is fortunate that smoking is now prohibited in restaurants, shops and offices. Most smokers seem to restrict smoking to the outdoors.

This means that when outdoors smoke dodging becomes necessary for all of us who do not appreciate those smelly fumes!
There are as many smokers here as elsewhere but not more, so that I do not quite see your point.
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Old 17.10.2011, 23:21
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Yes, there are a lot of smokers in Switzerland! This comes as a surprise in a country where lifestyles are generally rather healthy.

It is fortunate that smoking is now prohibited in restaurants, shops and offices. Most smokers seem to restrict smoking to the outdoors.

This means that when outdoors smoke dodging becomes necessary for all of us who do not appreciate those smelly fumes!
Flamelily - It has been suggested in this post and elsewhere that you should walk close to the smokers and expel as much "natural" gas as possible. After all, this is "natural" and slightly less rude than blowing smoke in the face of a stranger.
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Old 17.10.2011, 23:31
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Flamelily - It has been suggested in this post and elsewhere that you should walk close to the smokers and expel as much "natural" gas as possible. After all, this is "natural" and slightly less rude than blowing smoke in the face of a stranger.
In that case, I will happily borrow a cigar and do both!

Tom
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Old 17.10.2011, 23:45
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

I think the problem is that smokers just don't realise how badly their habit stinks, while non-smokers can't understand what it means to be addicted to something so badly that you place it above your own well-being and that of others. When I see cars drive past with children in the back and the parents smoking at the wheel, I just feel so sad, I mean, seriously? How selfish can you be?

I have never smoked and never will (unless you count cigars), despise the smell and taste of cigarettes but I feel sorry for those who are compelled to spend so much time and energy on the damn things, just think of all the shoes and delicious meals you could be having instead! Heck, one of my flatmates even lied to me about being a smoker because he knew he wouldn't get the room as a smoker - I am unhappy about having to put up with cigarette smoke on my own balcony but it's currently not an issue due to the cold weather so we'll have to talk about it again next summer.

I guess it illustrates how many smokers in this country feel - don't be so difficult, it's just the odd cigarette outside. But if a few people in a certain area feel that way, it does become a problem.

There is a valid point though regarding everyone stopping smoking - many will probably start eating instead and I certainly know that some of my health issues are worse because of extra weight and I am finding it very hard to shift, to change habits. I enjoy food, both as a social interaction and to wind down with - the latter being part of where excesses happen and those are very hard to deal with differently. So I see the similarity to smoking, as I would with drinking, the difference is still the immediate effect it has on others.
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Old 18.10.2011, 00:11
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

I have never smoked and never will (unless you count cigars),

Cigars stink more than cigarettes!
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Old 18.10.2011, 00:14
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I have never smoked and never will (unless you count cigars),

Cigars stink more than cigarettes!
Yes, they can but they are not something you smoke on a railway platform. Well not normally, anyway.
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Old 18.10.2011, 00:29
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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I think the problem is that smokers just don't realise how badly their habit stinks, while non-smokers can't understand what it means to be addicted to something so badly that you place it above your own well-being and that of others.
Agree. What annoys me almost more than all the smoking though is the careless disposing of cigarette butts ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE. I'd be more than happy if they started to crack down on this more and slap people with littering fine. After all, we end up having carcinogenic tar-sticks not just on the train tracks but all over our cities, waterways and mountains. Quite disgusting really. And can't exactly be excused with an addition either. It's just plain laziness and ignorance.
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Old 18.10.2011, 00:34
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Agree. What annoys me almost more than all the smoking though is the careless disposing of cigarette butts ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE. I'd be more than happy if they started to crack down on this more and slap people with littering fine. After all, we end up having carcinogenic tar-sticks not just on the train tracks but all over our cities, waterways and mountains. Quite disgusting really. And can't exactly be excused with an addition either. It's just plain laziness and ignorance.
And of course it's the smokers that drop cans of beer, bottles and paper all over the cities too and I bet it's also the nasty smokers who dump their litter anywhere rather than paying for a sack!
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Old 18.10.2011, 00:35
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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And of course it's the smokers that drop cans of beer, bottles and paper all over the cities too and I bet it's also the nasty smokers who dump their litter anywhere rather than paying for a sack!
Totally agree!
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