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  #141  
Old 24.10.2011, 10:45
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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OK, but in all fairness, this IS the Complaints corner. Complaining that someone complained in the complaints corner seems a bit meritless.
There's a way of complaining that doesn't make me groan (I think I actually groaned out loud due to the use of language). There's no need to use such judgemental language which applies to ALL smokers, not just the inconsiderate wankers that don't check who they're stood next to or don't ask if it's ok to light up.

Just to clarify - I agree with the sentiment. In fact, on Saturday I experienced two separate incidents where people were stood in the doorway of the train smoking! Unbelievable - they didn't even get off and stand on the platform so people were forced to breathe it in as they got on. These people are complete arseholes, but this can be expressed without talking about cancer sticks, foulness etc.
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  #142  
Old 24.10.2011, 11:07
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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If smokers aren't meant to smoke in store doorways, why do the stores put ashtrays there?
This was an issue in many places in the U.S. Smoking was prohibited indoors in public places, which pushed the smokers outdoors, right at the entrance to shopping malls, etc. So instead of some probability of inhaling second-hand smoke, shoppers were guaranteed to a lung-full or two as they entered and exited. Now, in the U.S., many shops place ashtrays 40-50m from entrances and prohibit smoking in entryways.

As a former manager of a freestanding restaurant in the U.S., the most common item my staff would clean up in our parking lot (we had to sweep every day before we opened- first impressions are very important!) was cigarette butts. There is NO excuse for littering. If i finished a can of cola, a candy bar, or a bag of chips and there were no trash can nearby, does that justify my throwing it on the ground? From my experience in Zurich, trash cans can be easily found- there's at least one at every transit station, it seems.
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  #143  
Old 24.10.2011, 18:36
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

yea, they always need to smoke fast after not being able in the train.. is horrible
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  #144  
Old 24.10.2011, 18:46
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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There's a way of complaining that doesn't make me groan (I think I actually groaned out loud due to the use of language). There's no need to use such judgemental language which applies to ALL smokers, not just the inconsiderate wankers that don't check who they're stood next to or don't ask if it's ok to light up.

Just to clarify - I agree with the sentiment. In fact, on Saturday I experienced two separate incidents where people were stood in the doorway of the train smoking! Unbelievable - they didn't even get off and stand on the platform so people were forced to breathe it in as they got on. These people are complete arseholes, but this can be expressed without talking about cancer sticks, foulness etc.
You should try following a smoker into the toilet. On long journeys, some have to pee quite regularly.....
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  #145  
Old 24.10.2011, 19:23
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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There's a way of complaining that doesn't make me groan (I think I actually groaned out loud due to the use of language). There's no need to use such judgemental language which applies to ALL smokers, not just the inconsiderate wankers that don't check who they're stood next to or don't ask if it's ok to light up.

Just to clarify - I agree with the sentiment. In fact, on Saturday I experienced two separate incidents where people were stood in the doorway of the train smoking! Unbelievable - they didn't even get off and stand on the platform so people were forced to breathe it in as they got on. These people are complete arseholes, but this can be expressed without talking about cancer sticks, foulness etc.
I'll have to agree with Kamarate. As a "grey zone" (smoker who is trying to quit, but I don't feel comfortable calling myself a non-smoker until enough time has passed without lighting up), I find that a lot of people think it is ok to use derogatory language when talking about smokers. I think it's never ok to use such language, no matter what we are talking about, and no matter how bad/disgusting/etc. we find the topic or the action.

I always wonder what people's reaction would be if I applied some of the language which was used above to describe smokers to, say, overweight people, people who drink soda, people who don't exercise, etc. Don't give me the "but all the above doesn't harm others" argument, I am just talking about language here. IMO, there are ways and ways to express one's opinion, and the use of derogatory language just shows lack of education - or very poor education at best.
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  #146  
Old 25.10.2011, 09:13
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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You should try following a smoker into the toilet. On long journeys, some have to pee quite regularly.....
So stop following people into toilets!

Tom
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  #147  
Old 25.10.2011, 10:02
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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T
These people are complete arseholes, but this can be expressed without talking about cancer sticks, foulness etc.

Or calling people arseholes!
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  #148  
Old 25.10.2011, 10:39
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Well it's fact that smoking isn't good for the smoker.

And while standing next to a smoker is not a danger to health, it is unpleasant for the non-smoker because of the smoke and because the smoker really does smell
But on the other hand, it's no worse than standing next to someone with bad body odour, bad breath or someone who doesn't wash their clothes.

Swiss non-smokers put up with smokers because, under the law, smoking is legal.

If it wasn't, you'd probably see a different attitude.
Smoking is legal where I come from to in many public places (not train stations, bars, restaurant, etc.) but at bus stops.

However we don't need a rule to teach us commonsense and politeness. I have never had a smoker sit right next to me on a public bench and light up a cigarette. That is simply inconsiderate and ignorant.

Oh yes, there is no "rule" so then they can just avoid all responsibility for being a self-centered prick.

How about one rule..."your freedom to do what you want stops when you are hurting someone else????"

I was taught that as a child, a lot of folks in this country obviously were not, in fact they are often oblivious to others if there is no formal rule from some authority to follow.

Even in Germany they have smoking areas on the platforms.

In Tokyo they have smoking booths on the platforms at major stations and even in parks (the ones in Shibuya come to mind).

Here many smokers act how many people in the rest of the civilized world acted 40 years ago. Then again some places here wouldn't let women vote until I was in secondary school, so I guess none of this is shocking...Berners aren't the only people who "think slow"...
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  #149  
Old 25.10.2011, 10:46
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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How about one rule..."your freedom to do what you want stops when you are hurting someone else????"
I like this - it's something I've never heard of before. We were taught the similar "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you" but I like your freedom one; it's a good, fair rule.
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  #150  
Old 25.10.2011, 11:16
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

I'll take your quote
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I think the problem is that smokers just don't realise how badly their habit stinks, while non-smokers can't understand what it means to be addicted to something so badly that you place it above your own well-being and that of others.
and I'll raise it with a quote from Trainspotting:
"RENTON: People think it's all about misery and desperation and death and all that shite, which is not to be ignored, but what they forget is the pleasure of it. Otherwise we wouldn't do it. After all, we're not stupid. At least, we're not that stupid."

Quote:
I have never smoked and never will (unless you count cigars), despise the smell and taste of cigarettes but I feel sorry for those who are compelled to spend so much time and energy on the damn things, just think of all the shoes and delicious meals you could be having instead!.
Whilst I'm tolerant towards smokers (an occasional smoker myself), God how I hate cigars and cigar smokers (they're ten times worse than cigarette and pipe smokers!). Can someone start a new rant/complaint against cigar smokers please?

WRT to
Quote:
When I see cars drive past with children in the back and the parents smoking at the wheel, I just feel so sad, I mean, seriously? How selfish can you be?
Yes that is quite sad, as is the situation that started this version of the "hate smoking rant hate hate hate" where by people are not considerate on train platforms...
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  #151  
Old 25.10.2011, 11:46
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Oh yes, there is no "rule" so then they can just avoid all responsibility for being a self-centered prick.
Despite all the smokers on here stating that they are considerate to non-smokers, I have to agree with the sentiments of AmericanGotWorkVisa here that in Switzerland, almost all the smokers I have come across have been like this.

Most have been passive-aggressive in their righteous attitude to smoking.

Here are a couple of my personal observations:

1. I walked to the empty far end of a railway platform to escape the haze of smoke from smokers crowded around the middle section of the platform. I sat on a bench with a 1 week old baby. A person came up to the bench, sat down next to us and lit up. I asked him not to. He said it was his right and carried on.

2. My wife, who whilst on a school committee, remarked that putting ashtrays on the tables for a kindergarten/primary school with parents, tea and cake break, as she thought it wasn't sending the right message. She was over-ruled by the woman in charge of the committee.
This woman later sat next to my heavily pregnant wife at one of the tables and proceeded to chain smoke.

3. The people who chain smoked in the bus station bathroom - the only one with a baby changing table.

I suppose there must be some considerate smokers - the ones that can hang on for a few minutes and then light up.
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  #152  
Old 25.10.2011, 12:06
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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How about one rule..."your freedom to do what you want stops when you are hurting someone else????"

This has been the city of Zurich's slogan for public behaviour for about ten years now. It sums up what you are saying, you can do what you like as long as it does not bother someone else. The problem is that this leaves a lot of space for people actually having to realise that their behaviour might be annoying/detrimental to others. And to be honest, that is an international problem, as anyone who's ever witnessed young people on holiday in large groups can attest.
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  #153  
Old 25.10.2011, 12:22
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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Having been here now for about 6 weeks I've noticed that, while waiting for trains to Zurich, or back at night, that some people (smokers) seem to think it is totally acceptable to stand next to some normal person (non-smoker) and puff on their cancer-sticks, exhaling their carcinogenic fumes for everyone else to inhale... so (with looks of disgust) I just move somewhere else on the gleiss only to have the same thing happen again.
Ok, 'when in Rome' and all that... but is this normal acceptable behaviour in Switzerland, or are these people just the Swiss equivalent of the anti-social scum we have in England... because even if I was (god forbid) a smoker then I wouldn't force someone else to endanger their health in this way....

any thoughts ?
its super annoying when this happens....i feel with u. think its rude.
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  #154  
Old 25.10.2011, 21:07
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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How about one rule..."your freedom to do what you want stops when you are hurting someone else????"
I like this - it's something I've never heard of before. We were taught the similar "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you" but I like your freedom one; it's a good, fair rule.
I learned something a bit more violent:

Your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose.

Personally, I'd prefer that right to stop well before the end of my nose - just in case of miscalculations!
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  #155  
Old 29.10.2011, 09:53
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

In this day and age with all the known risks associated with smoking (which includes passive smoking) there is just no really compelling argument why designated smoking areas cannot be assigned on railway platforms or in other public areas (like the Camel 'death boxes' at the ZRH airport). They banned smoking on the trains so why are designated smoking areas on platforms such an issue?

What is a big issue however is the fact that completly selfish and ignoarant person can come and sit or stand next to me when I am already in situ with my child and spark up a cigarette. The fact is he is not just harming his or her own health but potentially mine and that of my child. It may be his or her right to smoke but it is my right not to be poisoned by someone else. If you want to smoke do so where it does not infringe the space of other people.

Whichever way you look at it the writing is on the wall for smokers. Either they will die a miserable painful death from their 'pleasures' or they will become social outcasts if they choose to behave in an unsociable manner.
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  #156  
Old 29.10.2011, 10:17
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

so, i can't leave my car running at the train crossing, but I can chain smoke at the platform... hmmm interesting
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  #157  
Old 29.10.2011, 13:58
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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They banned smoking on the trains so why are designated smoking areas on platforms such an issue?
It would also have the advantage of all the smokers boarding the same waggon as they'd be localised on the plattform, so you wouldn't get quite so much of the "jammed between two people who smell like ashtrays" experience. But then I'd also like a separate "kebab and Chinese food consumers / gallons of Poison, Opium and other hardcore perfume wearers" waggon. Being green shouldn't be quite so fraught with olfactory assaults...
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  #158  
Old 29.10.2011, 14:25
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

apparently smoking at bus/tram stops is legal, but is it legal to throw cigarette butts to the ground? all the tram stops around here are littered with disgusting butts and i am kind of surprised how swiss people tolerate this behavior

in fact, cigarette butts seem to be the only kind of street trash in switzerland in addition to an occasional beer can here and there
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  #159  
Old 29.10.2011, 15:47
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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apparently smoking at bus/tram stops is legal, but is it legal to throw cigarette butts to the ground? all the tram stops around here are littered with disgusting butts and i am kind of surprised how swiss people tolerate this behavior

in fact, cigarette butts seem to be the only kind of street trash in switzerland in addition to an occasional beer can here and there
I'm amazed that you can spot the fag ends if you believe it's the only litter!
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Old 30.10.2011, 10:17
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Re: Smokers on railway stations

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In this day and age with all the known risks associated with smoking (which includes passive smoking) there is just no really compelling argument why designated smoking areas cannot be assigned on railway platforms or in other public areas (like the Camel 'death boxes' at the ZRH airport). They banned smoking on the trains so why are designated smoking areas on platforms such an issue?
It'll happen, eventually...It is astonishing, however, that it's taken this long for much inertia to take place in terms of reducing the impact of cigarette smoking on the public en Suisse

Most things I can work out why they are the way they are here but the smoking issues are hard to fathom in a country where the culture values health & nature as much as it does...I've seen improvements in the last 6 years I guess but they still have a ways to go obviously
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