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  #241  
Old 23.01.2013, 16:21
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Much prefer visiting the local independent Cafés and restaurants, better products, better service - and yes 'different, individual'.
As I wrote earlier, there is some pretty awful coffee coming from these independent cafes as well. The coffee comes from the same suppliers and is now made in the same industrial machines.

No independent cafes make real espresso/coffee anymore. It all comes from those automatic machines and if just as bad (or worse frankly) than Starbucks.

I'll pay someone 10F if they can find me a cafe in Lausanne or close by that makes a real espresso.
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  #242  
Old 23.01.2013, 16:38
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Agreed independent does not 'automatically' mean better. But as said, I hate to see this 'cloning' and loss of variety. It is so bad in the UK at the moment- there has always been some shops which are chains, but it used to be mixed with other independent boutiques, etc. Now all the towns have the same chains of shops for everything, and now same chains of cafés, same chains of hotels, same chains of restaurants, even at the middle/top end.

I love Carluccio's - but I just don't want one in every town!! Even Carluccio has had a nervous breakdown as he just hates what his own idea and ideal has turned into - with one in every town with pushy service (do you want garlic bread with this, do you want olives with that - push, push [If I wanted flipping garlic bread I'd ask for it, right]), Café Rouge, Zizzis, etc.

Consistency is comfortable, yes - but I'd much rather take the risk or the odd dodgy night, odd dodgy meal - for the sake of wonderful variety and choice.

Last edited by Odile; 23.01.2013 at 21:50.
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  #243  
Old 23.01.2013, 21:32
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Near where I work there was a nice little sandwich shop. The building they were in was redeveloped - the shop moved premises to a nearby backstreet and they are still going but probably get less passing trade than they did before.

The redeveloped building now has a Coop Pronto where the sandwich shop was.

This seems to happen more frequently in CH. So no, it isn't just the multinationals that are turning cities into clones of each other.

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Nick

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Yes, all the damned Migros, Coops, and Denners are turning all the Swiss cities into clones; I can't walk more than a few blocks without seeing one, so I have no way to tell Laussane from Zurich... Or is it only foreign chains that are guilty of this?
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  #244  
Old 23.01.2013, 23:35
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Agreed independent does not 'automatically' mean better. But as said, I hate to see this 'cloning' and loss of variety. It is so bad in the UK at the moment- there has always been some shops which are chains, but it used to be mixed with other independent boutiques, etc. Now all the towns have the same chains of shops for everything, and now same chains of cafés, same chains of hotels, same chains of restaurants, even at the middle/top end.

I love Carluccio's - but I just don't want one in every town!! Even Carluccio has had a nervous breakdown as he just hates what his own idea and ideal has turned into - with one in every town with pushy service (do you want garlic bread with this, do you want olives with that - push, push [If I wanted flipping garlic bread I'd ask for it, right]), Café Rouge, Zizzis, etc.

Consistency is comfortable, yes - but I'd much rather take the risk or the odd dodgy night, odd dodgy meal - for the sake of wonderful variety and choice.
Well, yes. Now you're talking about a much whole bigger issue. I'm just trying to get a 1/2 decent cup of coffee!
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Old 24.01.2013, 07:30
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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There's a lot of crap talked about Starbucks (same with any big chain, actually, as people pretend to be snobs and justify why they won't go).

If you don't like it because their espressos are bitter, then fine. That's true. They're designed to be an ingredient in a milky drink.

But ... powdered milk? The servings are too big when the customer chooses the size of drink? Give it up.
I do not regard the Espresso of Starbucks as bitter, but just what an Espresso has to be. Sure, most Espresso served in Switzerland is mild. Just go to Milano, Varese or Bergamo and check what real Espresso is like. Ticino is a border region with places serving Italian Espresso and many places serving Teutonen-Espresso.

And the size ? Yes, as you realize, you at Starbucks can choose between three sizes.

And finally, exactly the "arrival" of Starbucks here not only has encouraged the entry of other café/coffee-chains but also local cafés to improve. So that the influence of Starbucks onto the café/coffee-scene was remarkable and absolutely splendid

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I don't really know anybody who would go to SBX for the "quality" drinks..But I know a lot, including me, who go because, you take your pick, it's warm there, the trains take time to arrive, they get served asap with stuff to go, you can change your kid there, have a sandwich, organize an event there (hello stitch and bitch, I know we made SBX famous in GE), hook to net, or whatevs anyone needs, conveniently. To bash it is so few years ago. The tea is actually nice, coffee drinkable, so there.

(it is a little weird seeing all these adults with sippy cups, true that)
Whenever I go to Starbucks, I do NOT order "drinks" but simply coffees, either standard coffee or Espresso and that is good there. That it is expensive has already been nicely covered on here. But the quality is good.

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As said, as a black coffee drinker, I really don't like the bitter and yet watery coffee in huge heavy mugs. More importantly though, for me, I hate the 'cloning' of our cities - with the same shops, and now same cafés and even same restau chains. it's awful in the UK and getting worse here too. The small market town we regularly visit in East Leicestershire now has one Costa (much better coffee), one Café Uno, one Starbucks - then one Zizzi and one PizzaHut. Much prefer visiting the local independent Cafés and restaurants, better products, better service - and yes 'different, individual'. Do we really want our city centres to all the clones, the same. People here always talk about the lack of choice - and then ...! Consistency sounds good - but is it really? Same for hotels - the same chains everywhere - consistent blandness... is that what we really want? I'd rather take a risk with an independent business, even if it means the odd bad experience among the wonders and gems.

Even worse with the shops - each town centre with the same of everything - let's support our local businesses with their variety, choice and individual character.

BTW Starbucks is causing great controversy in the UK and in France as they pay NO tax in either country (same as Google, Amazon and many others - like KFC in France btw). Does anyone know what the tax situation is here with Starbucks in CH? Costa however do pay their taxes as owed in the UK - why do they and Starbucks do not?
Not only is most of the "local" business in regard to coffee rather boring and NOT offering a real variety, but as paying taxes in both Zürich and Vaud IS "LOCAL" business worthy of support

Last edited by MusicChick; 25.01.2013 at 16:19. Reason: fabulous merging of your own posts...danke
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  #246  
Old 25.01.2013, 16:10
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Just go to Milano, Varese or Bergamo and check what real Espresso is like. Ticino is a border region with places serving Italian Espresso and many places serving Teutonen-Espresso.

And the size ? Yes, as you realize, you at Starbucks can choose between three sizes.
I'd rather go to Starbucks in Thalwil then to drive to Italy.

Last edited by MusicChick; 25.01.2013 at 16:18. Reason: fixed quote
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  #247  
Old 25.01.2013, 16:33
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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I'd rather go to Starbucks in Thalwil then to drive to Italy.
Yes, driving to Italy/Ticino for a cup of coffee seems a bit excessive.
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  #248  
Old 25.01.2013, 16:43
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Must admit I've never been to a Starbucks in Switzerland. My first visit was to one in downtown Manhattan years ago, when it was still unknown in Europe. Perhaps the SB coffee is better here in CH? The smallest size in the UK huge, bitter and watery.

As said, my main objection is re. the cloning of our cities, all becoming the same and without choice - but as MiniMia says, it is a completely different ball game (+ the fact they don't pay any tax in the UK or France).
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  #249  
Old 25.01.2013, 17:03
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

The eternal argument of whether SB coffee is "good".

The thing is, it is not the worst coffee out there - and is certainly a lot better than a lot that you can get in Switzerland - but it isn't good.

Certainly in Zurich there are plenty of small coffee places where you can get a good espresso - at a price less than SB charges.

But here is the thing - SB isn't selling coffee - it sells a lifestyle choice. People buy a drink and then use it as an office, meeting place, living room, play room - you name it. Pop your head in to one of the central zurich ones at 11am to know what I mean.

Personally I opt for "made at home in a moka pot coffee" using Passalacqua coffee because it tastes very good and is cheap (OK I bought it in Italy one weekend)

SB now has a "blond" roast in the US - I dread to think how light that tastes
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  #250  
Old 25.01.2013, 17:19
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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The eternal argument of whether SB coffee is "good".

The thing is, it is not the worst coffee out there - and is certainly a lot better than a lot that you can get in Switzerland - but it isn't good.

Certainly in Zurich there are plenty of small coffee places where you can get a good espresso - at a price less than SB charges.

But here is the thing - SB isn't selling coffee - it sells a lifestyle choice. People buy a drink and then use it as an office, meeting place, living room, play room - you name it. Pop your head in to one of the central zurich ones at 11am to know what I mean.

Personally I opt for "made at home in a moka pot coffee" using Passalacqua coffee because it tastes very good and is cheap (OK I bought it in Italy one weekend)

SB now has a "blond" roast in the US - I dread to think how light that tastes
Exactly!!! That sums it up nicely. At least at home I know I can have a good coffee. When I'm out, I drink bad (or not very good) coffee for different reasons, socializing, taking a break, wasting time, warming up, people watching, etc.

The blond is truly awful. I know, I know, I didn't need to actually buy or try find that out. But I did...
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Old 25.01.2013, 17:51
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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As said, my main objection is re. the cloning of our cities, all becoming the same and without choice - but as MiniMia says, it is a completely different ball game (+ the fact they don't pay any tax in the UK or France).
Doesn't work like that. The Starbucks invasion churns the water for established chains, but it's all for the best: afterwards, amidst the husks of Lavazza joints, there's a niche for good (albeit pricey) indie shops, sometimes doing their own roasts. At least that's my observation based on three locales.

Downside: there has to be enough appreciative population. Not sure that will be the case outside Zurich, based on current samplings. (Well, except the south-west, where they seem to know what an espresso is already.)

Last edited by atamar; 25.01.2013 at 17:52. Reason: snark
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  #252  
Old 25.01.2013, 18:51
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Depressing news! Starbuck's coffea has no taste whatsoever. The only things worht drinking there is the Chai! Yes , the indian Tea!
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  #253  
Old 25.01.2013, 19:24
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Depressing news! Starbuck's coffea has no taste whatsoever. The only things worht drinking there is the Chai! Yes , the indian Tea!
Now here is the real question...did you tell them that? I mean the only place it really matters to be heard, is the store that sold you it, so they can make the change, or give you a new or better one.
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Old 25.01.2013, 20:04
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Now here is the real question...did you tell them that? I mean the only place it really matters to be heard, is the store that sold you it, so they can make the change, or give you a new or better one.
What are you gibbering on about? Since when did complaints corner become a place of action???

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Old 25.01.2013, 20:37
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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What are you gibbering on about? Since when did complaints corner become a place of action???

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Nice try. I think I would be better off if I was banned from the EF. I would go and join Vegan Chef on the ethereal plain of self understanding, and become enlightened with getting shiznit done.
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  #256  
Old 25.01.2013, 20:42
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Nice try. I think I would be better off if I was banned from the EF. I would go and join Vegan Chef on the ethereal plain of self understanding, and become enlightened with getting shiznit done.
You sure he's not just being an arse somewhere else?
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  #257  
Old 25.01.2013, 20:51
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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You sure he's not just being an arse somewhere else?
I know where he is, and he is being a feminine saint. He did a total make over and I could call him Betty Crocker now. He took his EF experience and has made himself into a faker person...maybe I should join him.
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  #258  
Old 26.01.2013, 01:22
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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I'd rather go to Starbucks in Thalwil then to drive to Italy.
The founder of Starbucks, American of German descent, was on a holiday trip in Europe, and in Milano had participated in a fairly wild party, and then woke up in his hotel room the next morning, not knowing how he had got back there and with a head the size of the moon. And then went to a bar nearby and asked for something against his condition. The barkeepers served him something like a "Triple-Espresso" . It helped. And so, he then explored the world of Italian coffee and concluded that this was what the USA needed. When establishing Starbucks he repeatedly visited Milano for inspiration and details.

Mum would never have accepted "milk-drinks" but went to Starbucks just to purchase the coffee. It to her was closer to anything close to Italian coffee available in Zürich.
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Old 26.01.2013, 11:23
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Starbucks coffee in CH must be VERY different from SB coffee in the UK then
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Old 26.01.2013, 12:22
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Starbucks coffee in CH must be VERY different from SB coffee in the UK then
I have been in Starbucks in London. There is no difference actually EXCEPT that many British employees drown the coffee in liters of water. At least in some places. In places where there are enough foreigners and "multicultural" Brits, their stuff is just as here. And if you buy the basic stuff to use at home it is the same.

You see. In the 60ies, Mum very often went to a nice café nearby. The woman in charge, the daughter of the grumpy owner, spoke with the customers, and so, the coffee for Mum was twice as strong as the "same" thing for the next lady. And things were similar with many good cafés already in the 60ies (and 70ies/80ies/90ies/00s) . I mean, as a staff member of the same company, you act differently in Queensway London-W2 and in St Mary Meads
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