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  #161  
Old 20.11.2012, 16:24
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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If you'd like to talk coffee I can spend hours, I've been in hospitality all my life, until recently cooking, running restaurants and bars, in many countries. I love ll this stuff and am a geek when it comes to food and drink, and do not fall for marketing ploys. I am very aware of perception biases and I try to blind taste things and remove hype and such from my judgments.

Most all commercial coffee grown in the world is Robusta or Arabica. Companies buy these beans green for their blends, which they source from various countries based on price and flavour profile, to have a consistent style and strength for their brands. Robusta is generally seen as a lower quality bean due to it's acidity and bitterness, and less complex gustative profile, and its lower price is a direct result of its lesser desirability.

In this case 100% Arabica is not an empty marketing term but a good indication that the coffee will be high quality and will make good coffee if it was roasted properly and used fresh.
Yes but Robusta gives more body and I don't agree on the acidity, Arabica has more, maybe Robusta gives more bitterness, this I agree.
In the end I tend to prefer a good mix like 70-80% Arabica and 20-30% Robusta, or even 50-50 (like Lavazza Carmencita which I love).
Arabica is considered better because is more expensive, since the plant grows on particular climates, but truth is a good mix is key to good coffee.
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  #162  
Old 20.11.2012, 16:26
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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And that's the problem I have with the selling of Starbucks coffee on trains here. All the disadvantages and none of the advantages. Someone at SBB really hasn't thought this through.
They do it all the time, ignoring their customers and focusing only on the bottom line (which counter-intuitively is not always good for the bottom line). They have taken other brands on in the past that are unknown or unsuited to Swiss tastes, because they can save a few pennies per unit, and end up with space on a trolley that never turns product over and just sits there, until they have to un-list it six months later, when they then don't replace it with a better selling brand because they got burned on the category already. It's a joke.

I negotiated with them myself, they knew nothing about the retail market and what products were out there, and they had no research about their clients and no criteria for brands other than the purchase price. Look at their own outlets in the train stations, they are always the least busy of various operators- limited selection and often random brands.
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  #163  
Old 20.11.2012, 16:37
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Yes but Robusta gives more body and I don't agree on the acidity, Arabica has more, maybe Robusta gives more bitterness, this I agree.
In the end I tend to prefer a good mix like 70-80% Arabica and 20-30% Robusta, or even 50-50 (like Lavazza Carmencita which I love).
Arabica is considered better because is more expensive, since the plant grows on particular climates, but truth is a good mix is key to good coffee.
I agree in some ways. I didn't say Arabica has less, I said acidity itself is one of the main criteria.

A good blend is a good blend, and can be achieved with a mixture of the two or wholly Arabica, IMO. My favorites tend to turn out to be 100% Arabica, but that's just my own personal preference.

Tastes aside, I can't really see anyone defending Starbuck's coffee from a quality stand point, not at least as quality is understood in the industry.
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  #164  
Old 20.11.2012, 17:05
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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I agree in some ways. I didn't say Arabica has less, I said acidity itself is one of the main criteria.

A good blend is a good blend, and can be achieved with a mixture of the two or wholly Arabica, IMO. My favorites tend to turn out to be 100% Arabica, but that's just my own personal preference.

Tastes aside, I can't really see anyone defending Starbuck's coffee from a quality stand point, not at least as quality is understood in the industry.
I believe Italy is generally recognised to have the best coffee in the world and the fact that there are no Starbucks in Italy tells us something about how good Starbucks is.
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  #165  
Old 20.11.2012, 17:10
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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I negotiated with them myself, they knew nothing about the retail market and what products were out there, and they had no research about their clients and no criteria for brands other than the purchase price. Look at their own outlets in the train stations, they are always the least busy of various operators- limited selection and often random brands.
They also hire the cheapest staff they can get and don't give them adequate training. So the minbar guy on the train will either ignore you, slipping past quietly when you're looking the other way, or pester you to exhuastion, but rarely meet the right tone in the middle. I think they don't ask their staff to report back on customer reactions either, so they don't have a clue what people ask for that they don't have, and when something isn't selling they don't notice until they see it in their books at end of the quarter.
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  #166  
Old 20.11.2012, 17:17
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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In this case 100% Arabica is not an empty marketing term but a good indication that the coffee will be high quality and will make good coffee if it was roasted properly and used fresh.
The type of tree the bean came from is an indication that it was subsequently roasted properly and used promptly??

As the other poster said - 60% of global production is Arabica and 40% is Robusta. Just makes me smile that either term is used as a badge of exclusivity
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  #167  
Old 20.11.2012, 17:24
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

You arabica lovers better enjoy it while you can... http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/40...al-botanic.htm

First superstorms and now we're going to have to face the day without a decent cuppa? *sob*
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  #168  
Old 20.11.2012, 17:46
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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The type of tree the bean came from is an indication that it was subsequently roasted properly and used promptly??

As the other poster said - 60% of global production is Arabica and 40% is Robusta. Just makes me smile that either term is used as a badge of exclusivity
No, it's as if you are trying to misunderstand me. I said as long as it is roasted properly and used fresh it will probably make a good cup of coffee, hence the word 'if'.

The fact that a company is using these more expensive beans IS probably an indication that they are taking care to make a good product, though.
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  #169  
Old 20.11.2012, 18:28
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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You arabica lovers better enjoy it while you can... http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/40...al-botanic.htm
But that's only the wild stuff. There's a lot of debate over whether it actually matters.

More major climate change may, though.
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  #170  
Old 20.11.2012, 19:23
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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No, it's as if you are trying to misunderstand me. I said as long as it is roasted properly and used fresh it will probably make a good cup of coffee, hence the word 'if'.

The fact that a company is using these more expensive beans IS probably an indication that they are taking care to make a good product, though.
Apologies - I misread it on your first post (tiny screen) - sorry

I think I'm just allergic to this masturbatory tone that coffee lovers sometimes share with wine bores - its just a freakin' beverage. It hasn't been squeezed from the horn of a baby unicorn and filtered through the stockings of Costa Rican virgins. Either you like it or you don't. How the hell people can criticise others for their choice of coffee outlet is amazing to me...Its a subjective thing, not objective
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  #171  
Old 20.11.2012, 19:27
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Can't stand Starbucks coffee and their huge thick mugs- but hey ho, each to his/her own.

At a tangent though, many people in the UK are currently boycotting Starbucks for choosing to pay (much lower) taxes in CH and none in the UK. Does anyone know where Starbucks CH pay taxes to - the Cayman Islands??

Costa on the other hand seem to be paying fair taxes in the UK - and their coffee is marginally better.
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  #172  
Old 20.11.2012, 19:50
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Can't stand Starbucks coffee and their huge thick mugs- but hey ho, each to his/her own.

At a tangent though, many people in the UK are currently boycotting Starbucks for choosing to pay (much lower) taxes in CH and none in the UK. Does anyone know where Starbucks CH pay taxes to - the Cayman Islands??

Costa on the other hand seem to be paying fair taxes in the UK - and their coffee is marginally better.
To be honest I couldn't care about the tax situation. When in the UK I've given up with finding decent coffee, and will just hit the first place that can give me a relatively high caffeine hit.

While I tend to be less fussy about coffee in the UK I do draw the line at certain points, one of which is that 20 year old jar of Red Mountain that still lurks in my mothers kitchen, and bless her, she still can't understand why I'd want to drink coffee at one of these "posh" places.
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  #173  
Old 20.11.2012, 21:41
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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I think I'm just allergic to this masturbatory tone that coffee lovers sometimes share with wine bores - its just a freakin' beverage. It hasn't been squeezed from the horn of a baby unicorn and filtered through the stockings of Costa Rican virgins. Either you like it or you don't. How the hell people can criticise others for their choice of coffee outlet is amazing to me...Its a subjective thing, not objective
Well, as a whisky snob, I reserve the right to disdain any non-single malt as, yes, every taste is individual, but there is a difference between a peaty malt and jet fuel...but I suppose someone has to drink the jet fuel to leave the good stuff for those that appreciate it.

With coffee, though, if you ever get a chance to have coffee in Turkey or, say, Tunisia, you may just find religion in a beverage as every other cup of coffee you ever have will be measured by the amazing quality. I still think about the coffee in North Africa and I'm not even a coffee snob.
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  #174  
Old 20.11.2012, 22:42
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

Being a coffee pleb, moi, I can drink anything with enough milk to not make my stomach hurt. And Starbucks was at the time the only place to change a baby, in a decently cleaned toilet. So, yay for that and their cheesecake. Their coffee is ok, but their baristas often kill it. It tastes better at home.
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Old 20.11.2012, 22:46
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Well, as a whisky snob, I reserve the right to disdain any non-single malt as, yes, every taste is individual, but there is a difference between a peaty malt and jet fuel...but I suppose someone has to drink the jet fuel to leave the good stuff for those that appreciate it.

With coffee, though, if you ever get a chance to have coffee in Turkey or, say, Tunisia, you may just find religion in a beverage as every other cup of coffee you ever have will be measured by the amazing quality. I still think about the coffee in North Africa and I'm not even a coffee snob.
Yeah....i used to think I was a whisky specialist, but fell out of love with it when I visited a flavour company. Don't push me for details if you enjoy the mystique of it, but my magic fell away then.

Don't get me wrong....I enjoy good coffee....I was on Java two weeks ago drinking coffee as the Javanese do.....but some of the opinions here reek of snobbishness. If you enjoy Starbucks or Nescafe instant, it doesnt mean you know nothing. Just your tastes are different
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  #176  
Old 21.11.2012, 00:19
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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Let's face it, all european coffee is mostly shit once you've had real Turkish coffee in Turkey or Northern Africa and, though I don't know who keeps Starbucks going, it's pretty clear that there are a lot of people who do given the expansion plans for next year ( http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,3192901.story ) including that they bought Teavana.

I hear the constant drone of people everywhere as to how they can't bear the coffee and, yet, Starbucks seems to always be busy, even in Zurich where the price of a plain cuppa is something in the extreme range.
Do not forget that quite a lot of coffee served in Turkey, on Cyprus and in the Arab World is "filter coffee". At the other hand, many Italian coffees are really good.

Starbucks coffee is too expensive but good. Sure, Starbucks already was anti-smoking before the bans came into effect. Smokers who wanted to drink outside got and get it in paper cups, while normal people get it in the nice real cups.

Starbucks only had to close its outlet in Zürich-Altstetten where they were offmarket due to their prices.

The best about Starbucks is that since they arrived here, the coffee in most places has become clearly better. Do not forget that the coffee machine often is more important than the stuff you use.
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  #177  
Old 21.11.2012, 10:01
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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i go to starbucks because it has the best coffee in the world.
If Starbucks has the best coffee in the world, then you don't know what a REAL coffee is like!
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  #178  
Old 21.11.2012, 10:03
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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some of the opinions here reek of snobbishness. If you enjoy Starbucks or Nescafe instant, it doesnt mean you know nothing. Just your tastes are different
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If Starbucks has the best coffee in the world, then you don't know what a REAL coffee is like!
.
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  #179  
Old 21.11.2012, 10:18
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

I don't know whether this has been discussed here before but apparently, SBB and Starbucks are teaming up and there will be a pilot launched on 2 trains (St.Gallen - Geneva), where you'll be able to purchse Starbucks beverages and snacks. I welcome such an implementation but would like to see such Starbucks counters on more than just 2 trains.
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  #180  
Old 21.11.2012, 10:20
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Re: Starbucks Coffee

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.
Ha. Ok. Fair enough
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