for me Coop has the highest quality, then Lidl because they have good brands...Aldi not so much...

I did a comparsion, for the same weekly groceries I pay approx. 1.5 more at Coop than Lidl...but there is no way that the quality is "1.5 better"...cash wins in the end...

I have been to Migros 2 times in 12 years...crappy and overpriced....and no alcohol

"Jelly ain't jelly", to paraphrase a well-known Australan ad for (mineral) oil (thereby bringing this discussion full circle).



Outside North America, jelly is a wobbly dessert. What you call "jelly", we call "jam".

Like cheekymonkey, though, I still don't eat jam sandwiches for brekky.

Just to confuse matters somewhat, jam in German is referred to as Marmelade, just as marmelade is also referred to. Not difficult to remember really but seeing as my kids are being brought up bilingual, it does puzzle my oldest at times (he is 2yrs old).

Some clarification:

Jelly = jam = Marmelade (Germany) = Confi (Switzerland) -

this is what I put on my bread.



Meat jelly = "Sulz/Sülze" in Switzerland -

this is not what I meant.

Migros "main-line" never had alcoholic beverages of any sort of tobacco in its assortment, while its subsidiaries have. Migros used to be cheaper than Coop until Mrs Uchtenhagen got replaced by Mr Loosli, who realised that Coop could easily compete with Migros in regard to prices and with Denner in regard to the prices of alcoholic beverages (this in a time when Denner was independent). There however still are quite many products which are cheaper at Migros than at Coop, Aldi and Lidl. Crappy ? Depends on the particular outlet(s) you speak about. They differ quite heavily. Some of the M-outlets still show that they are of 1930ies/1940ies/1950ies vintage. Some technical and optical upgrades cannot cover up realities. I know a particular one which opened in about 1958 (the area was served before by Migros sales-trucks) and which still shows the then concepts, and another one which was opened in 1962 whose structures reveal that decade up to now. Let's mention that self-service in Migros and LVZ (pred. of Coop) only got introduced in a few locations in Zürich as late as 1948, with Migros in fact in a leading position.

Jam is what Swiss people call GOMFI and what Germans generally call MARMELADE What unites Swiss and Germans is that nobody understands why "Anglos" make such a difference between Oranges and other fruit and berries

Aha but surely you must admit that the division of the fruit does make life a lot simpler? If I would say (at a British breakfast table), "pass me the marmelade" then I know exactly what I would get. Very important BTW because marmelade I can eat - jam makes me want to chuck up

Not just oranges -- also limes, lemons and generally all citrus fruit. It's simple, really: marmalade (note, the spelling in English is different to that in German!) is for breakfast, and only for breakfast. Jam is for other times of the day.

it's just protectionism - carrefour opened and then closed down and they were not allowed to build a larger shop

No, and not likely. Google <coop site:uk> and see what's left of the co-operative movement.

Rather sad: demutualisation has stolen the reserves built up -- both in the UK and the USA -- by generations for working-class people who, refused access to mainstream banking, insurance and retail credit, founded institutions to serve themselves and pay back profits as dividends.

The biggest "co-op" type success in Britain today is the John Lewis group, and that is a partnership of employees, not of customers.

There must be nice things that Margaret Thatcher (and her pal Reagan) did in their respective countries. For one thing she made property owners in London very rich. But she and he stole from the poor and gave it to the rich. And their legacy lives on: in celestial celebrity-type salaries and bonuses to top management and peon wages for those on the assembly line. And the end of trades unions. And more, much more.

And I'm a centrist, certainly not well disposed to socialists, who are crooks too.

This is hardly because of protectionism, but rather due to the fact that the responcibility of aproving building projects is the domain of the muncipalities, so it can be rather tedious.

According to this article the reason for Carrefours retreat was a change of global strategy:
http://sc.tagesanzeiger.ch/dyn/news/...ft/782709.html (August 2007)

That's not the real issue. If it was we wouldn't see Aldis and Lidls sprouting up all over the place. A building permit for a smallish supermarket or grocery store is not that hard to get.

However, once you go into Carrefour Hypermarché territory it gets much more difficult. E.g. if you need more than 500 parking spaces (until a few years ago the limit was even lower at 300) or a sales area of more than 7500 square meters, you need to conduct a Environmental Impact Assessment (Umweltverträglichkeitsprüfung/UVP). This means, among other things, that environmentalist groups like the VCS (Verkehrsclub der Schweiz) become entitled to object to the project and the resulting lawsuits can delay the project for many years and lead to expensive or otherwise unwanted project changes.
No wonder that foreign supermarket chains don't bother to enter the Swiss market.

That law was maybe not meant to be protectionist but its effects certainly are.

What I find most annoying in Switzerland is the lack of choice, and I would like to know why this is, if anyone knows. Just back from the UK, and once again I found myself wandering around a supermarket in awe, as the choice is so huge, and international, not just British. On my return, shopping in the Coop here for spray polish, and there was ONE brand (and American at that!)

- and what about jams made of berries
- and what about ..... made of citrus fruit and consumed in the evening
???

- jams
- still marmalade

rubbish. Carrefour simply showed A) not be competitive B) not to have a fighting spirit C) not to be innovative
-
First of all they here in Switzerland combined forces with Maus-Nordmann (Manor), a company with nice department stores, but rather traditional
-
Second, they turned down an offer of EPA to purchase that chain
-
Third, they did NOT "open" but took over an ailing company here, "Jumbo" and Carrefour failed to make something out of it
-
Compare them with Lidl and Aldi and Mediamarkt. The only French company of size which persevered here, at least up to now, is Conforama, but that of course comes out of the famous La Samaritaine Group. When in France, you see Aldi and Lidl, But how many French companies do you see in Germany ?

Protectionism ? protected by whom exactly ? and how ? Carrefour CH was 60% owned by the mice anyway (described above)

Alright, but far more practical in CH where everything is GOMFI (Confiture) and in DE where everything is MARMELADE. While in DE and CH "traffic jams" are Staus

Just checked the law and was astonished myself. You may call Marmalade a Gomfi, but not every Gomfi is a Marmalde.

Marmalade
Konfitüre
Gelée
"Fruits" which can be used for Confiture
Tomatoes, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, and Cucumbers can be "fruits" if used in jams.

In Germany it is the same. Except, that it is allowed to sell "Marmalade" (w/o citrus fruits) on farmers market.

Go Brits, teach the Kraut Farmers how to correctly name it.

i think this is hysterical. Here in the U.S.A. we regularly see a wider selection of equal or sometimes better quality foods at insanely lower prices than CH. They don't charge us to use their shopping carts and they even bag our groceries for us - all while charging LOWER PRICES and employing MORE PEOPLE.

Well I agree on the prices in the USA and on the service, not on the quality: in the USA it's legal to use growth hormones for cows, for example, which is forbidden in EU.

And you're not charged here to use carts: money comes out of the cart when you return it. Yes in the USA usually there's an old person that does that for you.