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  #21  
Old 02.11.2007, 17:34
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

Perhaps contact their corporate office by phone and ask what their return policy is on defective items?
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  #22  
Old 02.11.2007, 17:38
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

Ah...the good old "supply of goods and services act..." (I dont have the title quite right)

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From an Irish/UK perspective the sale of goods is governed by the following principles, do similar principles not hold in CH?:

-must be fit for purpose
-contract is between buyer and seller
-manufacturer may be involved to remedy fault but is not liable
-manufacturer warranty is an option, legall guarantee can be invoked by buyer against seller as they are the contracting parties

therefore the buyer needs to resolve against the shop's policies
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  #23  
Old 02.11.2007, 17:43
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

I think the important words to be invoked, even if the Sales of Goods Act does not apply here are : "Fit for Purpose".

If they are not understanding where you are coming from, simply observe:
"What we got here boy, is a failure to commmmuuuunicate.."
and simply pick up the shop owners dog and say :
"Well, now, guess what, this is happening."
and throw the dog out of the window, in a Jack Black stylee.

You may of cause want to consider more subtle measures before bringing out the big guns in this way.

dave





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Ah...the good old "supply of goods and services act..." (I dont have the title quite right)
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  #24  
Old 02.11.2007, 17:44
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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From an Irish/UK perspective the sale of goods is governed by the following principles, do similar principles not hold in CH?:

-must be fit for purpose
-contract is between buyer and seller
-manufacturer may be involved to remedy fault but is not liable
-manufacturer warranty is an option, legall guarantee can be invoked by buyer against seller as they are the contracting parties

therefore the buyer needs to resolve against the shop's policies

personally i've had similar problems with mobile phones where the principle in CH seems to be that until something has been sent for repair a third time within a year, it is only then replaced.

does anyone know the general refund/replacement principles legally applicable here in CH?
In Switzerland the law is actually quite similar just most people including the shop keepers aren't aware there is such a thing. Furthermore, with the introduction of chains getting to speak to someone who can actually make a call is rather difficult.

Note that there are actually several types of guarantee depending on the product type and depending on how the goods are bought.
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  #25  
Old 02.11.2007, 17:51
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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She trades the boots in for a pair of mens patent dress-shoes.

dave
Its the only sensible thing to do!
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  #26  
Old 02.11.2007, 22:42
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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It is normally up to manufacturer to decided how to remedy a fault. Mind you I am aware of the Swiss attitude that once they have your cash they don't care.
Du säg emal, schliifts dir eigentlich?
Is this some random conspiracy, two posters in one thread? If Swiss quality and service was so bad, I would not go out of my way to buy Swiss stuff. Yes you have the odd shop assistant who would be much better placed in a job without people but that is not the general attitude. After all, where else in the world do you have to do a three-year apprenticeship to be a proper salesperson?
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  #27  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:02
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

The Navyboot things I've bought have been of good quality. In fact, I've found most swiss made merchandise to be of above average quality. Lately, I developed the habit of checking where the product is made, and am avoiding products made in China. Not an easy task, but hey, I'm spending less.

But in regards to the shoddy customer service, welcome to Switzerland. The social conditioning here is quite different from our conditioning in the states. You were probably just stunned because this experience was new to you. Embarrassment is a tool here for such purpose. It's been used on me, but I've learned to wield it for myself. After about the fourth or fifth time, I learned to develop nerves of steel, a fiery tongue and to demand proper action when I'm being ripped off. Ugly, but gets the job done.

Another thing you can do is to pay with your credit card. You can always refuse to pay for undelivered goods or service. Or what I've really enjoy doing is to do my shopping in Milan. You have a wider selection and the Italians understand warmth and hospitality, not to mention the wad of euros in your pocket. Also, the Italian made stuff is really well crafted, and you see less people wearing the same thing.
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  #28  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:10
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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Du säg emal, schliifts dir eigentlich?
Is this some random conspiracy, two posters in one thread? If Swiss quality and service was so bad, I would not go out of my way to buy Swiss stuff. Yes you have the odd shop assistant who would be much better placed in a job without people but that is not the general attitude. After all, where else in the world do you have to do a three-year apprenticeship to be a proper salesperson?
This is a complaints corner, and when someone makes a specific complaint people always come running to the defense of the Swiss system.

I agree with the OP's post, I have never shopped in Navyboot but I have had similar experiences in many different shops here in Switzerland. The OP has a valid complaint, she was sold goods which were not fit for sale, therefore she should be entitled to a refund or replacement end of story.

The fact is that Swiss business tend to not give a flying f*@k about the customer once they have your money. If you can get them to take your money in the first place (but thats another story, and another complaint that I am not going to get into here!). I have had many experiences in Switzerland where these sales people that have done their three year apprenticeship have plain spouted so much BS to me just to try and make the sale. Now I generally do a lot of research and read reviews on most things I buy before I ever go to the shop so I can generally spot this BS a mile off. I have had sales people here tell me point blank that what I knew was wrong. I have had them try to charge me an extra 5% for the advice they give me (sorry that is their job to advise the customer!).

On one occasion I actually did buy a product on advice from the shop staff. After the purchase I wasn't so sure about what the shop assistant told me so I contacted the manufacturer directly (I used to work in the same industry so had direct contact details for the manufacturer). I was told that the product I had initially wanted was available and that the shop had told me blatant lies. I took this email back to the shop along with the product and tried to get my money back. They refused point blank. This went on for about 2 to 3 weeks. In the end I got a credit note and only because I made a scene in the shop giving out shit in English and German about there customer service and how their staff didn't know their arse from their elbow. I will never purchase from this particular shop again.

Things like this have not been isolated incidents either, I have had bike shops spin me pure and utter rubbish, computer shops try to tell me that what I want doesn't exist when I know it does etc etc...

In general Swiss shops only care about getting your money and not about providing any sort of customer service. Three year apprenticeship... in a lot of cases its an apprenticeship on screwing people over!!!

I realize I can't tar all businesses with the same brush, and there are shops out there who do provide good customer service, but I have received more bad customer service here then I have in other places in the world.

I think the OP should be allowed to get her genuine gripe off her chest without people telling here that customer service here is great. In this instance it is obvious that it was not. If it was they would have been interested in her continued custom, and given her a refund or replacement.

End of rant.
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  #29  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:15
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

Navyboot has a very good track record. The missus broke her shoes once and they repaired it F.O.C.

but when it comes to customer service, just walk away when bad service is being rendered.

*edit, forget about saying "Merci".
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  #30  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:21
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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Navyboot has a very good track record. The missus broke her shoes once and they repaired it F.O.C.

but when it comes to customer service, just walk away when bad service is being rendered.

*edit, forget about saying "Merci".
Thanks but no thanks. The day i walk away from bad service is the day i die.
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  #31  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:30
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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Things like this have not been isolated incidents either, I have had bike shops spin me pure and utter rubbish, computer shops try to tell me that what I want doesn't exist when I know it does etc etc...
Last Sunday, I was at Interdiscount in Luzern HB. I was asking a shop assistant if the Bluetooth Adapter which they sell supports A2DP.

He looks at me as if rubbish is coming out of my mouth and go "I don't know" and walked away. Bloody hell, what the sentence "Hold on, I'll check it out for you!" is non-existence during 3 years of vocational training?
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  #32  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:32
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

That's one approach. But I found the "French Waiter" approach to work effectively here.

You see, in L.A., the waiters at french restaurants put on the same arrogant air. If you go in and sheepishly say "May I please have filet mignon with bernaise sauce and....". They may interrupt with "No no no. You will like encrote with the roquefort sauce...", and if you disagreed, they snub you. After a while, I realized that if I preempt them with rudeness, they amazingly respond with politeness. How strange. So then I demand "Filet Mignon, seared on the outside, no oil and sauce on the side, and can you get it to me in 7 minutes?". "Oui oui monsieur..". Anyway, I digress. There is a similar psychology here. Walk in and look like you will not accept any bullshit. When you talk to them, talk to them with authority. Demand exactly what you wait. Use dramatic pauses if you must. Tell them exactly what you want them to do, and I found that they respond as if they've been pre-programmed for the task.

Now I'm not normally like this. I grew up in civilized society. But I'm convince they have issues with providing service. I imagine its some internal conflict with their history of serfdom and their lords... I don't know. But clearly, this is a an oddity.
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  #33  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:35
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

Eire, I was referring to the post I quoted and that of "Peace" who just made blanket statements.

I can understand the OPs grief, but I think it's unfair to say that Navyboot is generally rubbish. I would probably buy ALL my shoes there if I could afford it but for now I can only afford shopping in their sales.

By the way, if you find Zurich particularly unfriendly, try Lucerne, they are much nicer there and you have a fairly good choice of shops. Because I do concede that a lot of Zurich shop assistants have clearly never heard of being friendly. However, I tend to be über-friendly and nice back at them and get good results with that. It is true that competence as such seems to be valued over helpfulness and I wish shops were like in Canada for instance, where the service was amazing. But that's a different topic, which would go along with the very limited sizing available (yes, I am tall AND big, not all tall women are models, you know?) and a pair of Hilfiger jeans being twice as expensive as in the US.

As for not caring what happens after you pay, I really have to disagree. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've only once had to "ask for the manager" so far, sadly he was the manager of that shop, so I called the company he worked for. The boots whose soles had fallen apart after a week's wear (Timberland, by the way) were replaced. Ok, they had the same defect but that is Timberland's fault for trying to be eco-friendly and using a new type of glue that's rubbish, but the shop had a cobbler fix that for me for free.

Keep your receipt, stick to washing instructions/manuals and go back as soon as you see something is amiss. Obviously you'll get better results in the morning on weekdays rather than attempting the same move on Saturday afternoon but as a whole I've never had trouble with returns, repairs or anything like that.
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  #34  
Old 03.11.2007, 00:52
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

...not even a part-time model ? Say one of the top three most beautiful in the street (depending on the street) ?

dave

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(yes, I am tall AND big, not all tall women are models, you know?)
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  #35  
Old 03.11.2007, 10:18
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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...not even a part-time model ? Say one of the top three most beautiful in the street (depending on the street) ?

dave
I guess if it was a very small street that is only usually frequented by stray dogs and tramps, I may manage to make the top three. On a good day.

Anyway, model does NOT equal beautiful, unless she's a plus size model. A fashion model just has to be freakishly tall and have 85cm or preferably less hip circumference regardless of her height.
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  #36  
Old 03.11.2007, 10:25
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

I have had the dubious honour of meeting a large number of them at a fashion show runway rehearsal with and without show clothes recently. Without the show clothes and makeup, they are certainly distinctive, but they are chosen to portray a certain look to flatter the collection. Only about 1 of the 50 clicked my switches.

dave

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Anyway, model does NOT equal beautiful, unless she's a plus size model. A fashion model just has to be freakishly tall and have 85cm or preferably less hip circumference regardless of her height.
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  #37  
Old 03.11.2007, 10:39
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

i bought myself a pair of bally boots. and its like walking in socks on velvet.
smooth! i think its clear what to do: go with a native speaker to solve it. if its not getting right, call the corporate office and i am sure theyll will sort it out right for you.
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  #38  
Old 03.11.2007, 11:48
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

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i bought myself a pair of bally boots. and its like walking in socks on velvet.
Bally shoes are the best shoes! They fit live a glove for your feet. Ever since I bought a pair, I only buy Bally, unless they are athletic shoes. They aösa last almost forever if you take care of them.

I think it also makes a difference where they are made. Sometimes in Italy, sometimes in India, and sometimes in Switzerland. Anyone knows if there is a difference in quality between the three?

Last edited by Phos; 03.11.2007 at 17:23.
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  #39  
Old 03.11.2007, 12:04
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

Before buying something I usually ask lots of questions about what will happen if I want to return the product and want my money back.

Before one buy expensive product - sellers are usually far nicer than after buying the product.

I know that there are rules regarding it - I never had bad experience in any country, however, as I said, I always asked first many questions.

I also spend at least 30 min. in the shop before buying something expensive... I check everything that they have and talk to sales person.

Hmm... once it took me 2 hours to buy a bicycle.

I hope that your Swiss friend will help you with your problem.

Please keep us informed how it went.
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  #40  
Old 04.11.2007, 22:46
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Re: Do Not Shop At Navyboot

I fully agree with you. I really hope people stop to buy there, they only sell crap for big money.

I also had more then one bad experience! Unfortunatly there are few shoes shops in Zurich where I lived for 6 years, and in Geneva for the moment I haven't fund better!

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Hi everyone,

I just wanted to tell you about the horrible experience I have had at Navyboot. At first I thought that this was a great Swiss shoe company, but boy was I mistaken. I bought a very expensive pair of boots there a few weeks ago, and after one hour of wear, one of the heels broke off. Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed with the terrible quality of what I thought were nice boots.

So, as can be expected at any store in the States, if something like this happens, you take the shoes in and get your money back, or at least a new pair of shoes. Quite the contrary. Instead, the woman looked at me like I was crazy and told me that the heel probably broke off because I walked funny. I was completely shocked at this response. The only solution that they provided me with was to get the boots repaired.

When I went back after the boots were ready, I stressed one more time that I no longer wanted this boots, for fear that each time I would wear them, I would have to hobble around without a heel. Again, they told me that there was no other option than to take the boots home. I even spoke with the "big boss" (as he called himself) and he was even more rude than the woman I spoke with on the floor.

I have never been treated so poorly at a store in my life, nor have I spent so much money on such crap.

The situation has still not been resolved, and I have to go back to the store one more time with a Swiss colleague so that she can speak to the man in german, because his english was non-existant.

I just wanted to share my story so that none of you have to go through a similar experience.

Please do me a favor and spread this message. Navyboot does not deserve to be in business selling such horrible quality shoes for such ridiculous prices.

Beth
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