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  #101  
Old 24.12.2015, 18:29
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

I guess it depends on what he shoplifted. If he was caught shoplifting a sandwich because he was hungry it's one thing. If he was caught "shoplifting" a couple of 30k chf watches, it's another thing.
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  #102  
Old 24.12.2015, 18:38
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

that was not intentional, the person was worried because the police was called, the made him.sign a document written in German and he was told that paper will be send to church and then the penalty will be decided, the retail shop told that he have video evidences of the person doing before.

Now the concern what activities will be followed here after. Will he get any penalty ? He already paid a 100 chf fine, I guess what he told me is he took 10-12 items and forgot 2 items to scan at the self check out counter.
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  #103  
Old 24.12.2015, 18:44
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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that was not intentional, the person was worried because the police was called, the made him.sign a document written in German and he was told that paper will be send to church and then the penalty will be decided, the retail shop told that he have video evidences of the person doing before.

Now the concern what activities will be followed here after. Will he get any penalty ? He already paid a 100 chf fine, I guess what he told me is he took 10-12 items and forgot 2 items to scan at the self check out counter.
The Police can never make anyone sign anything, big mistake as it's likely to be an admission of guilt, making their job easy.
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  #104  
Old 24.12.2015, 18:53
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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that paper will be send to church and then the penalty will be decided
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  #105  
Old 24.12.2015, 18:55
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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that was not intentional, the person was worried because the police was called, the made him.sign a document written in German and he was told that paper will be send to church and then the penalty will be decided, the retail shop told that he have video evidences of the person doing before.

Now the concern what activities will be followed here after. Will he get any penalty ? He already paid a 100 chf fine, I guess what he told me is he took 10-12 items and forgot 2 items to scan at the self check out counter.
Were the 100chf charged by the store? Some stores have a sign by the entrance or elsewhere stating that, in case of theft, one has to pay a handling charge and that the store reserves the right to press charges.

Finally, no one here will be able to tell you what awaits your friend, as no one knows the exact situation and no one knows how the person deciding your friend's sanction is going to rule. So it won't be very useful to look for answers here.
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  #106  
Old 24.12.2015, 18:59
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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Were the 100chf charged by the store? Some stores have a sign by the entrance or elsewhere stating that, in case of theft, one has to pay CHF 100-150 handling charge and that the store reserves the right to press charges.

Finally, no one here will be able to tell you what awaits your friend, as no one knows the exact situation and no one knows how the person deciding your friend's sanction is going to rule. So it won't be very useful to look for answers here.
He won't go to prison for a 1st offence, , maybe a suspended sentence & fine plus costs. If you look at the 'book' in ch you can see maximum fines & sentences, it's not rocket science.
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  #107  
Old 24.12.2015, 19:09
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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He won't go to prison for a 1st offence, , maybe a suspended sentence & fine plus costs. If you look at the 'book' in ch you can see maximum fines & sentences, it's not rocket science.
Reread what I wrote, FMF.
You can't know what will be decided, only guess.
This has nothing to do with rocket science, but with the fact that you aren't the person ruling what the OP's friend's sanction is.
Merry Christmas.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 24.12.2015 at 19:43.
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  #108  
Old 24.12.2015, 20:11
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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I went shoplifting once and got a police record ........


......... Walking on the moon, I think.
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Was that in CH? unless you get a fine over 6k it should not be shown.
Long day, eh ....?


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  #109  
Old 24.12.2015, 21:01
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

Indeed long day for him, his day never seems to end. Although he is leaving the country in 1-1.5 months time, he is only looking to return to this country after 1 year and polics record might hinder his second option. Next time when he applies due to police record might cancel his work authorization.

Will keep updated all the consequences.

Merry Christmas to all here and thanks for all the responses.
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  #110  
Old 24.12.2015, 21:40
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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Is anyone aware of the shoplifting penalties in Zurich Switzerland recently?
By and large major (at least) Swiss retailers -- as, increasingly those in other countries -- rely on civil recovery. Thus the decision is on the balance of probabilities not beyond a reasonable doubt. I think the civil penalty is CHF 100 or 150. 100 according to this thread: Migros Penalty

In the course of my life I can recall vividly three or four occasions when I have been accosted by the store dick, or equivalent:

At Montgomery Ward in Maryland. I bought some clothes (a shirt for me, some kids' wear, etc.) and had some questions. But the sales clerk in the shirt department was busy chatting with one of his colleagues and wouldn't be "disturbed". So I paid elsewhere. (Hey, those were the days when department store departments actually had staff and sold stuff, not totally self-service. And I don't think Monkey Ward even exists anymore.) Suffice to say I left the store to go to my car, and some security guy stopped me and accused me of theft. And the useless, incompetent salesman was ten steps behind him. He went through my cash register receipt and everything in my bag was accounted for. He turned on his heels without even saying "sorry".

Next case. I'm in Zabar's, West side, Manhattan. I want to buy cheese. Nobody will serve me: too busy, queue is too long. I see a brochure, "Eat more cheese" and put it in my pocket, and walk out of the store annoyed. A manager runs after me accusing me of "theft". I am puzzled, don't remember the brochure until he points to his inside coat pocket. I take out the brochure, his face drops and he turns away. But a crowd has gathered. I call after him: "Haven't you forgotten something?" He's puzzled. "Aren't you going to apologise?" He does. The crowd applauds.

Third case: I'm in Manor, Monthey. I have a trolley. I buy some stuff, but I have in it two things I came in with: a soda bottle insulating cover (with the name of some British firm that gave it to my spouse as a free advertising premium) and an insulated container that we use when we buy ice cream, as I intended to do at Manor's (separate) food hall. I leave the store into the shopping centre headed for the food hall and some guy older than me (is anybody older than I am) stops me: "Does anything in your trolley belong to us?" Well, no: what I bought I paid for. He didn't seem to know what the store sells, but he did acknowledge that British brands of soda may be different.

Fourth case: I self-check-out in Co-op and they choose me for verification. Turns out there are as many mistakes in my favour as otherwise. (Happens when you put back one flavour of a product for another.) Clerk says (when I ask) that no matter what the mistakes are, since I hadn't left the store there was no problem. (As it happens, next time I self-check I charge myself with six cases of wine, not six bottles: big deal, have to go to the florist department to get a credit.) Moral of the story: why self-check? Who benefits?
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  #111  
Old 24.12.2015, 22:58
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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By and large major (at least) Swiss retailers -- as, increasingly those in other countries -- rely on civil recovery. Thus the decision is on the balance of probabilities not beyond a reasonable doubt. I think the civil penalty is CHF 100 or 150. 100 according to this thread: Migros Penalty

In the course of my life I can recall vividly three or four occasions when I have been accosted by the store dick, or equivalent:

At Montgomery Ward in Maryland. I bought some clothes (a shirt for me, some kids' wear, etc.) and had some questions. But the sales clerk in the shirt department was busy chatting with one of his colleagues and wouldn't be "disturbed". So I paid elsewhere. (Hey, those were the days when department store departments actually had staff and sold stuff, not totally self-service. And I don't think Monkey Ward even exists anymore.) Suffice to say I left the store to go to my car, and some security guy stopped me and accused me of theft. And the useless, incompetent salesman was ten steps behind him. He went through my cash register receipt and everything in my bag was accounted for. He turned on his heels without even saying "sorry".

Next case. I'm in Zabar's, West side, Manhattan. I want to buy cheese. Nobody will serve me: too busy, queue is too long. I see a brochure, "Eat more cheese" and put it in my pocket, and walk out of the store annoyed. A manager runs after me accusing me of "theft". I am puzzled, don't remember the brochure until he points to his inside coat pocket. I take out the brochure, his face drops and he turns away. But a crowd has gathered. I call after him: "Haven't you forgotten something?" He's puzzled. "Aren't you going to apologise?" He does. The crowd applauds.

Third case: I'm in Manor, Monthey. I have a trolley. I buy some stuff, but I have in it two things I came in with: a soda bottle insulating cover (with the name of some British firm that gave it to my spouse as a free advertising premium) and an insulated container that we use when we buy ice cream, as I intended to do at Manor's (separate) food hall. I leave the store into the shopping centre headed for the food hall and some guy older than me (is anybody older than I am) stops me: "Does anything in your trolley belong to us?" Well, no: what I bought I paid for. He didn't seem to know what the store sells, but he did acknowledge that British brands of soda may be different.

Fourth case: I self-check-out in Co-op and they choose me for verification. Turns out there are as many mistakes in my favour as otherwise. (Happens when you put back one flavour of a product for another.) Clerk says (when I ask) that no matter what the mistakes are, since I hadn't left the store there was no problem. (As it happens, next time I self-check I charge myself with six cases of wine, not six bottles: big deal, have to go to the florist department to get a credit.) Moral of the story: why self-check? Who benefits?
LOL
I never ever, never, self check. How does it benefit me?
I pay the exact same price and run the risk of prosecution if I make a stupid mistake; which at my advanced age is a high risk.
Moral, never , ever self check!
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  #112  
Old 25.12.2015, 08:33
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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The Police can never make anyone sign anything, big mistake as it's likely to be an admission of guilt, making their job easy.
True! What they do is to make a note that the person refused to sign the document and initial it themselves. (That happened to my brother-in-law.)

On a police check many years ago at a demo I was asked to show my CH identity card which I did, but refused the police permission to search the shoulder bag I was carrying and also refused to give them my telephone number. They allowed me to continue without checking either.
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  #113  
Old 25.12.2015, 11:29
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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True! What they do is to make a note that the person refused to sign the document and initial it themselves. (That happened to my brother-in-law.)

On a police check many years ago at a demo I was asked to show my CH identity card which I did, but refused the police permission to search the shoulder bag I was carrying and also refused to give them my telephone number. They allowed me to continue without checking either.
Alternatively cross out anything you don't like & sign it, if you have not accepted the 'contract' it's of little use in court.
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  #114  
Old 25.12.2015, 12:14
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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LOL
I never ever, never, self check. How does it benefit me?
I pay the exact same price and run the risk of prosecution if I make a stupid mistake; which at my advanced age is a high risk.
Moral, never , ever self check!
Although I fully agree with your reasoning, I find I can leave the store quicker when I self-check and actually enjoy scanning my 8-10 items. In my experience, self-checking becomes more complicated when I have many items to scan through a self-check with limited counter space and people are waiting for me to complete my transactions. That's when mistakes happen.
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  #115  
Old 25.12.2015, 18:16
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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Although I fully agree with your reasoning, I find I can leave the store quicker when I self-check and actually enjoy scanning my 8-10 items. In my experience, self-checking becomes more complicated when I have many items to scan through a self-check with limited counter space and people are waiting for me to complete my transactions. That's when mistakes happen.
In our local Coop, there are also so many malfunctions of the self-check-out machine. Just find it more reliable / predictable to go through the friendly, professional experts at the 'till.

Sure I will convert as soon as I have more confidence, but for now...
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  #116  
Old 25.12.2015, 18:25
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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In our local Coop, there are also so many malfunctions of the self-check-out machine. Just find it more reliable / predictable to go through the friendly, professional experts at the 'till.

Sure I will convert as soon as I have more confidence, but for now...
I've had those Coop self-checkout machines "double-book" items too often, scanning a bottle of Sprite too slowly ended up showing 3 bottles instead of one on the screen. Deleting stuff with that touchscreen is a bloody hassle. This hasn't ever happened in Migros.

That's why Coop - tills and
Migros - tills if I'm not in a hurry and self-checkout if I'm in a hurry with few items. I prefer Migros on all fronts anyway (and I'm not affiliated with them).
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  #117  
Old 25.12.2015, 18:31
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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I've had those Coop self-checkout machines "double-book" items too often, scanning a bottle of Sprite too slowly ended up showing 3 bottles instead of one on the screen. Deleting stuff with that touchscreen is a bloody hassle. This hasn't ever happened in Migros.

That's why Coop - tills and
Migros - tills if I'm not in a hurry and self-checkout if I'm in a hurry with few items. I prefer Migros on all fronts anyway (and I'm not affiliated with them).
Interesting, haven't yet tried the Migros self-check-out. Will give it a go next time.
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  #118  
Old 25.12.2015, 20:47
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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LOL
I never ever, never, self check. How does it benefit me?
I pay the exact same price and run the risk of prosecution if I make a stupid mistake; which at my advanced age is a high risk.
Moral, never , ever self check!
In short: Convenience and swiftness.

Once or twice a week I buy half a dozen items. Self-checking takes perhaps two minutes until I have the change in hand as there's never a queue on workdays. Using the ordinary cashier takes a mulitple of that, queuing alone probably takes 2-3 times as long, plus with self-checkout I am active which seemingly makes the time go faster.

With that said, despite the small ticket purchases I realised at least once when loading the goods in the trunk of the car that I had failed to scan an item (of course not on purpose, and yes I'm aware that everybody says so ).

However, I would never use the mobile scanners as I'd only use these with big purchases, i.e. lots of different items, which coupled with all the diversions along the way would make errors highly likely.
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  #119  
Old 25.12.2015, 21:22
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

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In short: Convenience and swiftness.

Once or twice a week I buy half a dozen items. Self-checking takes perhaps two minutes until I have the change in hand as there's never a queue on workdays. Using the ordinary cashier takes a mulitple of that, queuing alone probably takes 2-3 times as long, plus with self-checkout I am active which seemingly makes the time go faster.

With that said, despite the small ticket purchases I realised at least once when loading the goods in the trunk of the car that I had failed to scan an item (of course not on purpose, and yes I'm aware that everybody says so ).

However, I would never use the mobile scanners as I'd only use these with big purchases, i.e. lots of different items, which coupled with all the diversions along the way would make errors highly likely.

The Co-op I regularly use very rarely has a queue at the checkout, by the time have emptied the wagon the cashier is at work.


Anyway if I found self checking to be quicker then what would I do with the time I save? Not a benefit for me
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  #120  
Old 25.12.2015, 22:37
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Re: accused of shoplifting, but not really?

Question is that, will these kind of shoplifting activities have any impact on the work permit apart from police records? I guess the person will fined may be around 1000 chf but after that will he be told to leave the country if he is on a work permit?
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