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  #81  
Old 31.07.2013, 04:23
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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According to my Roger's Profanisaurus, the proper term for this is the "barse".
I believe the anatomical term is 'perineum', but I've always been rather partial to 'gooch' as it reminds me of the woman in the movie "Mame"
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Old 31.07.2013, 12:14
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

I think there is actually a word in Swiss German that means "to be proud of following the rules" .....
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  #83  
Old 31.07.2013, 12:40
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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I think there is actually a word in Swiss German that means "to be proud of following the rules" .....
yea there is: läbbe.
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  #84  
Old 31.07.2013, 12:48
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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With such stories I always suspect, that the
problem is not that "the Swiss" jump the queue, but that "the foreigners" don't know how to queue "properly" (i.e. the way people queue in Switzerland).

If you try to form a queue behind somebody standing at the counter of a bakery and leave too much space (because you have a strange perception of personal space;-)) you will not be considered part of the queue by "the Swiss". Consequently they will "ignore" you and join the queue (before you).

You have to notice, that in shops there often isn't a physical queue at all, but a invisible one. To join such a invisible queue you need to stand in front of the counter (and not trying to form a queue behind somebody standing at the counter). This could be further reason why "the Swiss" that you perceive as jumping the queue are ignoring you.
This is complete BS.

We could be at a shop all day if we all want to go stand in front of one another pretending there is no queue.

It is very obvious that there is a line of people waiting to be served. They are looking at the counter, they are not looking at items, and they are standing behind one another, normally with just enough space that you might feel a light breeze on your neck, clearly not just standing there for a laugh.

If anyone wants to be so stupid and ignorant to believe that they were not aware, then they deserve the wrath they receive. I am by no means the only person that calls people out either, it just doesnt happen with as much regularity as it did in the UK when people took the piss, others let it slide.

They ignore because they are trying to get away with it. If they ignore the excuse me, there is queue, and what do you think you are doing attempts at dialogue, they very quickly find their necks dragged backwards.
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  #85  
Old 31.07.2013, 12:55
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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This is complete BS.
I like you posts because they are funny, but you do know that they reinforce prejudices against Zürich, don't you - and I personally found Zürich not that bad, but I wouldn't want to generalize from my own experience, so maybe it is a horrible place. Keep posting.
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  #86  
Old 31.07.2013, 13:02
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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I like you posts because they are funny, but you do know that they reinforce prejudices against Zürich, don't you - and I personally found Zürich not that bad, but I wouldn't want to generalize from my own experience, so maybe it is a horrible place. Keep posting.
Do they? I love Zurich the pros definitely outweigh the cons, I would not be here otherwise. But it doesn't mean I can't express my opinions on some of the very basic issues of common courtesy.

But put it into perspective, at least I am complaining about that as opposed to the teenage mums and heroin addicts and social welfare scum where I am from. Life is definitely better, I just have a thing for manners and that I am very self aware of them myself, especially basic ones. Because I set the bar so high, it is very personal when someone doesn't offer the same amount of common courtesy and decency back. It brings out the hulk in me
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Old 31.07.2013, 13:21
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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I just have a thing for manners
Keep it that way. I am too, this is why I shame the queue jumpers loud in high German, playing with the prejudice that nothing stops a German who is right to get his right.

But I think everybody has a thing for manners, just not the same manners. I've said it many times, but as child I discovered quickly that manners are very different in France and Germany, and had to accept and live by the double standard. Living in a country culturally foreign to one's own means the same. Brasilian connections of mine in Geneva told me they can't help thinking I am rude because I am physically so distant and even jump aside when they touch me just naturally in the conversation because that's the way they are. I am rude to them indeed. I even cut into the conversation with Germans, even though I know it's a no-no, but hey, they know I am French too. Am I rude then? Yes and no... at the same time.

P.S. Don't queue in Scandinavia, avoid France at any price and don't meet me ever.
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  #88  
Old 31.07.2013, 14:37
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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P.S. Don't queue in Scandinavia,
why not?
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Old 31.07.2013, 15:12
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

There was a big influx of foreign workers in the 1990's who came to be employed by Swiss companies as there were no Swiss people available to do the work. These were mainly in the IT industry and were employed by Swisscom, the 2 big banks & the pharma industry. This was in the days before bilateral agreements, the employers had to show there was no Swiss person who could do the work before a foreigner could be hired. It's how I ended up here, my employer could not find anyone local to do the work so looked abroad & found me. So yes Switzerland has benefited from all the people & their skills that have been imported, we have helped the country be what it is today. BTW I have only ever worked for Swiss companies.

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And where the advantage in it for me as a citizen? I don't think my life got better in the last twenty years.
I doubt very much that Switzerland as a country benefits so much. The moment the global companies arrived they employed foreign employees who of course pay taxes. To cope with the influx we hav to build schools, houses and transport. Of course the companies made their money out of it, even more when you consider that they pay very low corporate taxes. Their shareholders all over the world must be delighted. So the success is all theirs.
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Old 31.07.2013, 15:55
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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Do they? I love Zurich the pros definitely outweigh the cons, I would not be here otherwise. But it doesn't mean I can't express my opinions on some of the very basic issues of common courtesy.

But put it into perspective, at least I am complaining about that as opposed to the teenage mums and heroin addicts and social welfare scum where I am from. Life is definitely better, I just have a thing for manners and that I am very self aware of them myself, especially basic ones. Because I set the bar so high, it is very personal when someone doesn't offer the same amount of common courtesy and decency back. It brings out the hulk in me
I was back in the UK for a couple of weeks in May after not being there for over 18 months and, to be honest, I was shocked at the way manners have slipped there in that time. People letting doors swing in your face, a fat chav mum manoeuvring her trolley and 6 kids in front of you at the cash desk in Tesco, parents letting their kids run round like wild animals in a restaurant. Quite an eye-opener after my rosy-tinted memories of my British past life.

Zurich might have its problems here and there with sneaky queue jumpers (I have to say that shop assistants do nothing to put them off by simply serving them ahead of the rest of the queue) but the problems here are dwarfed by those I saw on my recent trip back to Blighty.
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  #91  
Old 31.07.2013, 15:58
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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I was back in the UK for a couple of weeks in May after not being there for over 18 months and, to be honest, I was shocked at the way manners have slipped there in that time. People letting doors swing in your face, a fat chav mum manoeuvring her trolley and 6 kids in front of you at the cash desk in Tesco, parents letting their kids run round like wild animals in a restaurant. Quite an eye-opener after my rosy-tinted memories of my British past life.

Zurich might have its problems here and there with sneaky queue jumpers (I have to say that shop assistants do nothing to put them off by simply serving them ahead of the rest of the queue) but the problems here are dwarfed by those I saw on my recent trip back to Blighty.
The sinking ship I refer to as home, or what once was? Yeah, it is a bleeding shit hole.
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Old 31.07.2013, 16:01
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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There was a big influx of foreign workers in the 1990's who came to be employed by Swiss companies as there were no Swiss people available to do the work. These were mainly in the IT industry and were employed by Swisscom, the 2 big banks & the pharma industry. This was in the days before bilateral agreements, the employers had to show there was no Swiss person who could do the work before a foreigner could be hired. It's how I ended up here, my employer could not find anyone local to do the work so looked abroad & found me. So yes Switzerland has benefited from all the people & their skills that have been imported, we have helped the country be what it is today. BTW I have only ever worked for Swiss companies.
Completely agree.
I haven't been here long myself, but to say that Switzerland derives little benefit from overseas workers is, in my opinion, very wrong.
I'm sure like many on here, I work for a Swiss company (pharma in my case). It's a very big company, with billions of $ of sales worldwide. Companies like this help to bring wealth to Switzerland. It means your currency is very strong, it means there are high earners paying tax and utilising local shops and services. And we're renting huge amounts of property, usually from Swiss people.

The fact they are Swiss owned companies is a big difference to the UK, where I've moved from. Increasingly, it's overseas companies based in the UK that employ people. Whilst of course this provides work for people building Japenese cars or working in American banks, the wealth (and tax reciepts) flows back to the home country.
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Old 31.07.2013, 23:07
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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This is complete BS.

We could be at a shop all day if we all want to go stand in front of one another pretending there is no queue.

It is very obvious that there is a line of people waiting to be served. They are looking at the counter, they are not looking at items, and they are standing behind one another, normally with just enough space that you might feel a light breeze on your neck, clearly not just standing there for a laugh.

If anyone wants to be so stupid and ignorant to believe that they were not aware, then they deserve the wrath they receive. I am by no means the only person that calls people out either, it just doesnt happen with as much regularity as it did in the UK when people took the piss, others let it slide.

They ignore because they are trying to get away with it. If they ignore the excuse me, there is queue, and what do you think you are doing attempts at dialogue, they very quickly find their necks dragged backwards.
Well
> few people pretend there is no queue
> yes indeed, a line of people waiting to be served is a queue , just as everywhere
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  #94  
Old 31.07.2013, 23:17
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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Completely agree.
I haven't been here long myself, but to say that Switzerland derives little benefit from overseas workers is, in my opinion, very wrong.
I'm sure like many on here, I work for a Swiss company (pharma in my case). It's a very big company, with billions of $ of sales worldwide. Companies like this help to bring wealth to Switzerland. It means your currency is very strong, it means there are high earners paying tax and utilising local shops and services. And we're renting huge amounts of property, usually from Swiss people.

The fact they are Swiss owned companies is a big difference to the UK, where I've moved from. Increasingly, it's overseas companies based in the UK that employ people. Whilst of course this provides work for people building Japenese cars or working in American banks, the wealth (and tax reciepts) flows back to the home country.
The benefit Switzerland gets from immigrant workers simply is that they replace the gradually retiring babyboomers.
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Old 31.07.2013, 23:18
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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Completely agree.
I haven't been here long myself, but to say that Switzerland derives little benefit from overseas workers is, in my opinion, very wrong...
Am I not reading the same post?

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... So yes Switzerland has benefited from all the people & their skills that have been imported, we have helped the country be what it is today. BTW I have only ever worked for Swiss companies.
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  #96  
Old 31.07.2013, 23:26
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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Well I hear you ... but that is because I have an autistic child who can often exhibit strange behaviour and particularly behaviour caused by stress or anxiety but which exhibits itself as screaming/anger.

It got to a stage early last summer when I literally avoided going out with him because I was so stressed by his behaviour which was further compounded by random strangers' complaints and worse still, accusations of bad parenting. People sure know how to hit you when you're down.

We moved last August to la Suisse Romande and I must say have had practically no comments/unkind interventions since. Just on Tuesday we were walking in woods when a dog came running up to us. The elderly owner called out to ask if the children were scared so I shouted yes. He is not scared - but his behaviour around animals is often inappropriate and could cause the dog to take fright (flapping his arms, making noises in his excitement). As the owner got nearer, I explained it wasn't fear but autism, which led to a long conversation and an invitation to the three of us to accompany him back to his house (100m away) where he fixed cool drinks for the kids and we sat in shady garden and gathered some herbs.

Surprisingly this sort of friendliness and interest has already happened three or four times this year, but never happened when we lived in Baselland. I refuse to draw broadbrush conclusions but in this case, its hard not to. Perhaps I just didn't come across the right people whilst living for 7 years in Baselland
Thought I'd provide an update as we are (since Sunday) on holiday in Graubunden ..

Day 2 in the Graubunden holiday house and Junior ECB is already on the wrong end of a pointy fingered and grumbling Swiss German speaking elderly lady "why's he making so much noise? It's too much. Tell him off and if he still doesn't listen, put him outside" (we were in a supermarket at the time).

Day 3 and Junior ECB is on the wrong end of a waggly fingered and grumpy British English speaking () older woman.. "Don't the hotel have a policy about children in reception making too much noise?" she barks out in strident home counties tones. Oh the shame (I am British too). . "Yes we do" replies the receptionist, "they are also our guests and we are happy to welcome them". (in all fairness he had just gone flying headlong on the stone reception floor .. one of his many disabilities means his sense of balance and coordination is rather poor).

Sigh. Conclusion? Grumpy people everwhere. Even on holiday.

Last edited by ecb; 01.08.2013 at 06:44. Reason: Added a conclusion.
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Old 31.07.2013, 23:41
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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. . .

P.S. Don't queue in Scandinavia. . .
why not?
There really does not seem to be any understanding of queues. The results can be extreme chaos and extreme annoyance. Hence, many places use numbered tickets (post office, pharmacy, etc.). The competition for seats on trains/trams is also fierce. I have never seen little old women move so fast and fight so hard.
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Old 01.08.2013, 00:28
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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There really does not seem to be any understanding of queues. The results can be extreme chaos and extreme annoyance. Hence, many places use numbered tickets (post office, pharmacy, etc.). The competition for seats on trains/trams is also fierce. I have never seen little old women move so fast and fight so hard.
The ticket system is not a system unique to Switzerland. It's been around for donkey's years in the UK and I've seen it in action in North America (US and Canada) as well as Australia.
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Old 01.08.2013, 03:41
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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The ticket system is not a system unique to Switzerland. It's been around for donkey's years in the UK and I've seen it in action in North America (US and Canada) as well as Australia.
Not unique to any country, but I can only remember seeing it used outside of Scandinavia when wait times are longer. Like when getting a driving license in the US. I cannot remember a time when I took a numbered ticket in the UK, so maybe I cannot comment there.
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Old 01.08.2013, 09:18
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Re: How the swiss deal with incorrect behavior from strangers

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Am I not reading the same post?
NO ! Because "Lou" included all European immigrants, while "Parkrunner" excluded them apparently regarding them as useless
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