Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 03.10.2013, 17:15
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 10,959
Groaned at 542 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 10,565 Times in 5,405 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

To add to the confusion, many Swiss companies here are extremely rich having made their profits oversea:
just how many raw materials companies does Switzerland need?

Where do these assets come from, where are the taxes paid?

I would suggest that Swiss companies are also extremely good at moving profits around the world, and lowering their taxes.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d...in_der_Schweiz
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #122  
Old 03.10.2013, 17:17
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,716
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,029 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Tax is an obligatory expense and not a charity, so why would anyone pay more than they should.
Only on profits!

Many people living in CH choose to shop in France or Germany because it's cheaper, this apparently is morally acceptable however if companies choose to pay the lowest price for taxation it's considered wrong
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #123  
Old 03.10.2013, 17:23
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Baar, ZG
Posts: 168
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 75 Posts
adamwoja is considered knowledgeableadamwoja is considered knowledgeableadamwoja is considered knowledgeable
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Many people living in CH choose to shop in France or Germany because it's cheaper
And then pay their tax to CH instead of FR/DE, if at all.. sounds "fair"
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 03.10.2013, 18:00
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,716
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,029 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
And then pay their tax to CH instead of FR/DE, if at all.. sounds "fair"
Not on the food or goods they are buying, they probably get back the foreign tax & pay zero on importing.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 03.10.2013, 18:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,134
Groaned at 226 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 5,094 Times in 2,632 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Only on profits!

Many people living in CH choose to shop in France or Germany because it's cheaper, this apparently is morally acceptable however if companies choose to pay the lowest price for taxation it's considered wrong
exactly, i would say that about 70% of the cars in the rhein centre multi story car park are swiss.

our neighbour complains about people going to france and germany and they should support local shops etc.... guess where i saw him doing his shopping
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank rob1 for this useful post:
  #126  
Old 03.10.2013, 18:13
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,073
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,593 Times in 9,431 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Take the trash out? A full bag or nothing
Actually, trash is still free here.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #127  
Old 03.10.2013, 18:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,102
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,059 Times in 3,274 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post

As a manufacturer, I never tell my customers to buy my stuff instead of the Germans' because we are Swiss. Either we get our cost out if we are competiting head-to-head, or we find a way to give the customer a unique value. But it is never sensible to ask a customer to pay more if you are not providing more for the money in some form.
.
Oh well, and then you also have atypical markets when consumers would prefer any mediocre even expensive (very expensive for the average income level) product because is made in Ch, Germany or France. (I dont want to name and shame now)
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 03.10.2013, 18:16
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 24 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 756 Times in 330 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Actually, trash is still free here.

Tom
You know, if you keep advertising Ticino like this, people are going to start moving there.

Then it'll just be just like everywhere else, though maybe with better weather.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Fridge for this useful post:
  #129  
Old 03.10.2013, 21:34
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,357
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,516 Times in 12,078 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Right. I've had enough. I've had this in my head from the moment I saw the thread title this morning, so now I'm going to share:



(I feel better already)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #130  
Old 03.10.2013, 21:43
speakeron's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 728
Groaned at 24 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 645 Times in 319 Posts
speakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Also, you mention London and Paris...what is the population of these cities? There are probably more drivers in London alone then the whole of Switzerland. Imagine every swiss driver on the streets of Geneva, at the same time. There would be traffic jams the likes of which London has not seen. The roads in Switzerland are not as good as people seem to think - they just carry far less. They are adequate, not good.

The Tube carries far more people then the entire swiss train network. Something that big, and with that many individual parts will of course break down occasionally. Can you imagine if the Swiss transport system suddenly had to carry 5 times as many passengers? it too, would collapse. And you can bet the prices would still be higher. The swiss system is good, but is not that much ahead of the UK network.

All this goes back to my original point - Switzerland is very good, and people would not mind paying a little extra. But paying 3-4 times as much for something of the same or worse quality (have you tried swiss Ketchup? Good god.) is what people have a problem with.
All your points are absolutely correct. But have you ever done a daily commute in London on the tube? Even for comparatively short distances it is literally hell on earth. Every so often I take the early flight to LCY and get on the DLR for the city; it is literally hell on earth. No commute in Switzerland comes close and there's no way I would go back to that daily grind. (London's a great place for regular visits though!)

Maybe some stuff is 3-4 times more expensive, but overall it isn't that bad and the salaries more than compensate for that. Life in Switzerland is just comfortable (bequem in German) and there's a reason so many people come here for a short time and just never leave.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank speakeron for this useful post:
  #131  
Old 03.10.2013, 22:07
symphara's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: omw to Zurich via California
Posts: 118
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 150 Times in 54 Posts
symphara has earned the respect of manysymphara has earned the respect of manysymphara has earned the respect of many
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
So you do believe that Google created its product all in Bermuda?
Non sequitur.

I didn't say they created the product in Bermuda. And if they haven't created their product in Bermuda but instead, say, in the US, what's the "fair share" of profit tax payable in the UK? It still sounds like zero to me.

Then you conveniently forget the fact that all these companies (Amazon, Google etc) pay VAT on their sales in Europe, plus a wide variety of other taxes (employment, duties, etc). Before you remind us that customers pay the VAT I'll remind you that customers pay everything, profit (and profit tax) included. Not having it itemised on the bill doesn't mean the customer doesn't pay for it.

Also, please note that while the value added tax is generally applied to the turnover, profit tax has no relation to it. It's applied on profits instead. A company with 6.9bn$ profits and 6.8bn$ costs won't pay much profit tax. Amazon for example notoriously reinvests almost everything.

Repeatedly touting revenue numbers and saying "they should pay more", when you actually don't know what "more" is nor how it should be calculated is not particularly convincing.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank symphara for this useful post:
  #132  
Old 03.10.2013, 22:16
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,378
Groaned at 442 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 15,952 Times in 6,286 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Right. I've had enough. I've had this in my head from the moment I saw the thread title this morning, so now I'm going to share:



(I feel better already)
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I had this song in my head this whole day too since I saw this thread!

Les grands esprits se rencontrent.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #133  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:09
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,338
Groaned at 176 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Why do they make low or 0 profits in some countries? It's just based on a financial device like Intellectual Property box that would have the German subsidiary pay some IP fees to a Bermuda based company that belongs to them.

What I want to emphasize is that tax should reflect the genuine activity you have in that country. The Luxembourg offices of Amazon are empty. There is no real activitiy there! This is true for all international companies (US, UK, German, CH, etc...).
Again, disingenuous, and not addressing the point. You climbed on your high horse and anointed yourself high judge of "fairness." Now that I've pointed out how judgemental you're being, you're again trying to justify taxing the crap out of a big company just for the sake of them being big. Like revenue, economic activity isn't a good indicator of profitability (and subsequently ABILITY to pay taxes), so why would you ever want to tax a company in this manner?

The company can have all the activity in the world, and still be operating at a loss. If you then tax these efforts, it just increases the loss, and eventually the company closes or leaves. Bye bye tax revenue and now there's no money to pay for your high horse...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #134  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,168
Groaned at 520 Times in 398 Posts
Thanked 11,921 Times in 4,665 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Again, disingenuous, and not addressing the point. You climbed on your high horse and anointed yourself high judge of "fairness." Now that I've pointed out how judgemental you're being, you're again trying to justify taxing the crap out of a big company just for the sake of them being big. Like revenue, economic activity isn't a good indicator of profitability (and subsequently ABILITY to pay taxes), so why would you ever want to tax a company in this manner?

The company can have all the activity in the world, and still be operating at a loss. If you then tax these efforts, it just increases the loss, and eventually the company closes or leaves. Bye bye tax revenue and now there's no money to pay for your high horse...
To be fair, MrVertigo seems to be arguing without any background knowledge of the subject matter, so you can't blame him. Sort of.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Richdog for this useful post:
  #135  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:23
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,338
Groaned at 176 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

I scan through this thread, and I can't help at being astonished at how many people think that taxation exists for the purpose of "fairness." Last time I checked, the purpose of taxation was to generate revenue for the government to fund government activity. The way we implement taxation should be to optimize the revenue stream so that there's enough money to fund government, while at the same time being as unobtrusive to the taxpaying entities (people or companies).

This is so obvious, but yet we have another massive big-companies-are-evil-this-isn't-fair whinge-off here...

As to this "rich auslander" premise, that's crap too... I've met more tight-fisted low-income locals than I've ever met expats/foreigners in that situation. Just because you've got a few coins to rub together doesn't mean you don't have the right to negotiate the best price you can get... Seriously, you don't get rich by frivolously spending money.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #136  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Ask Starbucks
I think it would be fairer to ask Costa, who seem to choose to pay fair tax in the UK. Are they mad, deluded, stupid ... or what?
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:44
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,472
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,325 Times in 5,676 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
I think it would be fairer to ask Costa, who seem to choose to pay fair tax in the UK. Are they mad, deluded, stupid ... or what?
i think costa only paid the bare minimum that they were legally required to pay. starbucks paid more than the bare minimum that they were legally required to pay.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #138  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

So Costa are not stupid ... they of course paid the minimum required of course. Over 30% of profits- whilst Starbucks fixed the books to show no profit and paid 0%.

Being fair has reallypaid off though - as Costa's share of the market in the UK has hugely increased to the detriment to Starbucks, following the outrage of customers re 0 tax. So, at the end of the day - who is the cleverest as well as the fairest?

From the Grauniad:

Costa Coffee, Britain's fast expanding espresso bar chain, plans to double its sales to £2bn within five years, underlining its determination to compete on a global stage with arch rival Starbucks.
The coffee chain, part of FTSE 100 leisure conglomerate Whitbread, on Tuesday announced it had broken through the £1bn sales mark, posting a 22% rise for the year to March. Sales in UK Costa stores, excluding franchised outlets, rose 24% to £592m.
Costa bosses have sought to play down suggestions that its recent success in Britain had much to do with enduring outrage at the UK tax arrangements of Starbucks, exposed by Reuters last year.
Nevertheless, the latest brand preference survey data from YouGov – released to the Guardian – show a sharp drop Starbucks' standing among coffee drinkers. The data suggest the US firm's reputation took a heavy hit, despite an unprecedented move to pledge £20m in "voluntary" tax payments.




So - a good business should know never to underestimate the intelligence of its customers, nor their power to bring it down- should you be seen to not play fair (especially if the product is c**p ). Me, I prefer to go to neither, and will always support the great independent caf', with great food, great service and a smile (and who has no choice about whether to pay tax or not- but I agree that these independent have really upped their game in the face of competition from the chains, and that is brilliant).
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 04.10.2013, 11:55
symphara's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: omw to Zurich via California
Posts: 118
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 150 Times in 54 Posts
symphara has earned the respect of manysymphara has earned the respect of manysymphara has earned the respect of many
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
I think it would be fairer to ask Costa, who seem to choose to pay fair tax in the UK. Are they mad, deluded, stupid ... or what?
I assume you're talking about profit tax, so perhaps Costa is more profitable?

Paying more tax than one absolutely has to seems mad, yes. I don't know anyone who does it. In the UK the HMRC got something like 1000 pounds in 10 years of voluntary donations.

Mostly people talking a lot about this elusive "fairness" simply want others to pay more tax. Which is why lately when I hear the word I instinctively clutch my wallet.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank symphara for this useful post:
  #140  
Old 04.10.2013, 12:04
symphara's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: omw to Zurich via California
Posts: 118
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 150 Times in 54 Posts
symphara has earned the respect of manysymphara has earned the respect of manysymphara has earned the respect of many
Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Quote:
View Post
Over 30% of profits-
Extraordinary, considering that UK profit tax rates range between 20 and 23%.

Quote:
View Post
whilst Starbucks fixed the books to show no profit and paid 0%.
That's a serious acusation of illegal activity, amazing you can throw it around so freely, especially given that you show no proof and they've been thoroughly audited by the Revenue, and they didn't find anything of the sort.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank symphara for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
stupid auslanders and plug sockets cheesey Complaints corner 35 06.07.2012 05:47
Auslanders beware cannut General off-topic 5 06.12.2011 10:02
Are the Swiss tight? transition Complaints corner 32 09.02.2009 12:40
Wanted: Old flat-bottomed iron [Geneva] GenevaSculler Items wanted 8 21.01.2009 13:31
Mr Tight ??? swisscath General off-topic 12 15.04.2008 14:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0