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Old 03.10.2013, 10:11
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Rich tight bottomed auslanders

I wouldn't say I'm fed up, but I am very disappointed. Why do so many English speaking foreigners, particularly brits I'm ashamed to say, complain loudly about paying for services here?!?! We all know the prices LOOK high by UK and especially US standards, we know that. Not new or unexpected. I too was shocked by the Swiss prices, but when in Rome you should bloody well participate in the Roman economy.

Many of us were born in a culture (UK) where people jump at opportunities to get something without paying. Something for nothing, we want to earn $$$$ but don't give a toss if others starve*. It's also a place where the restaurant staff barely earn enough to put food on the table.

When people earn a decent wage, they pay others for serving them food and moving their home and shit. Trying to get shit for free and underpaying thise less fortunate is not how capitalism works.


* as long as they don't claim benefits!?!?
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:24
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

I think there is just a dip when someone moves here where they have to re-learn to shop savvy. I've been here for 150 years and have managed to work out the best deals for stuff and how to get things done for not much money. Also, I've built up a fab circle of friends which sometimes lets me into the world of "mates rates".

Obviously I still get that stinging feeling in my eyes of them watering at the cost of something but, on the whole I agree with you, it's a by product of living in a country with a high standard of living. It don't come cheap (or free!).
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:28
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Product prices, i agree. That said, i think much of the frustration lies in the lack of choice (and therefore competition).

For services, i think people look at the services they paid for in the UK, and considered that to be adequate. Here, so many other services are charged for that people feel that they are being ambushed by hidden charges (eg, paying for a handymans travel time). Of course, this frustrates them and they unload on their nearest english0speaking community - EF.

I think its part of the process of getting used to the prices. When i first arrived i was genuinely shocked, but im not so much anymore.
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:29
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Many people here are not well off "tight fisted rich foreigners", one of us lives in a "council house", -- I will bet you didn't know they exist.

What these eloquent poor people really dislike is being robbed by "Rich tight bottomed auslanders"...

With the exceptions of Lidl and Aldi, you are all paying far too much. I quote from a famous Swiss consumer magazine:

-> the Freiburg economics professor Reiner Eichenberger does not mince his words. Now he attacks the Swiss retailer head-on: "If anything, the prices should be lower in Switzerland than in neighbouring countries. But definitely no higher "His reasoning is simple:" Our higher wage costs are more than offset by our much higher labour productivity. "

Read the full article here, http://www.beobachter.ch/konsum/kauf...tlich-so-viel/ (From 2009 when the Euro was Fr 1,50 )

So the poor people here are working harder and for less benefits, to enable rich people to make more profit. Yes why should they complain? You can still buy a lump of cake for only CHF 5,--
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:31
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Rule #1 - Dorothy, stop comparing prices to what they are in Kansas.


There is no rule #2

The rule is especially relevant on the back of the global recession where FX movements have created a bigger difference.
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:33
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

I'm with Sbrinz on this.

If the prices sting a bit for those of us lucky enough to earn white collar wages, just think how painful they must be for everyone else.

If we don't complain (or express our displeasure by shopping over the border or doing it ourselves), what hope have they got?
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:42
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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Trying to get shit for free and underpaying thise less fortunate is not how capitalism works.
No? I am dumbfounded at this one..



But I agree with you.
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:42
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Do the prices really sting? Or do they do so in proportion to what you paid before?

If you went from paying 0.50usd for a loaf of bread to 3chf you will be outraged. But if you have been living locally for 10 years and paid 2.50chf 10 years ago - and 3chf now - would you really "feel" the increase.

Auslanders, especially those who arrive now, are more likely to feel the increase as they have a daily reference point outside of Switzerland.

Low inflation in Switzerland suggests that living costs and wages are in line - and neither is growing excessively ahead of the other. Furthermore, like for like wages in Switzerland are higher, and the Swiss pay for the services they receive. They generally employ local people (handyman) - many of whom they know personally and so travel time becomes small.

Auslanders apply the same logic/methods they used in their home country - expecting Switzerland to bend to how they want to do things. And when it doesn't they complain.

10 years on - and the price of a beer in a Zurich expat pub has barely increased - what about in London??
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:42
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

You can save loads of money by:

-Buying food at ethnic grocery stores
-Doing cross-border trips
-Doing your clothes and electrics shopping online
-Using the EF marketplace

I would say far too much money goes on the ridiculously overpriced party scene here, and that is entirely my fault.
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:44
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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Rule #1 - Dorothy, stop comparing prices to what they are in Kansas.
But we're in a new economy. And the beauty of it is that if I don't like what's on offer here, I can almost certainly order it at kansas.com.

I earn my money in Switzerland, but I prefer to spend my money abroad, where I get better value for it. Your view on whether this is morally correct may differ, but I pay all the taxes due and respect the customs limits. This is the free market at work, and if enough people do the same thing, the (Swiss) market will adapt.
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:46
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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You can save loads of money by:

-Buying food at ethnic grocery stores
-Doing cross-border trips
-Doing your clothes and electrics shopping online
-Using the EF marketplace

I would say far too much money goes on the ridiculously overpriced party scene here, and that is entirely my fault.
Minus this one..

Quote:
-Doing your clothes shopping online
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:47
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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But we're in a new economy. And the beauty of it is that if I don't like what's on offer here, I can almost certainly order it at kansas.com.

I earn my money in Switzerland, but I prefer to spend my money abroad, where I get better value for it. Your view on whether this is morally correct may differ, but I pay all the taxes due and respect the customs limits. This is the free market at work, and if enough people do the same thing, the (Swiss) market will adapt.
Or the law
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:49
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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I think there is just a dip when someone moves here where they have to re-learn to shop savvy. I've been here for 150 years and have managed to work out the best deals for stuff and how to get things done for not much money. Also, I've built up a fab circle of friends which sometimes lets me into the world of "mates rates".
.
How old ARE you?
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:49
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

The OP was writing about services.

Everyone else is writing about goods.

Just saying...
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:51
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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I've been here for 150 years and have managed to work out the best deals for stuff and how to get things done for not much money. Also, I've built up a fab circle of friends which sometimes lets me into the world of "mates rates".
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How old ARE you?
It was so good that it sort of lasted longer.
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:51
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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The OP was writing about services.

Everyone else is writing about goods.

Just saying...
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or doing it ourselves
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Old 03.10.2013, 10:51
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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I earn my money in Switzerland, but I prefer to spend my money abroad, where I get better value for it.
How much of this perceived value is due to the FX rate movement?

Up until mid 2009 the EUR hovered around 1.6 - it is now 1.2 (give or take).

If you were a local person - how much would you have to earn pre-tax to pay for the item?

In Switzerland the base wages, on average, are higher than the surrounding countries. The tax rates, on average, are lower than the surrounding counties.

Combine that with a strong currency and you will naturally get a very high purchasing power outside of the domestic economy.

None of which has any bearing on the domestic pricing.

Example
Germany - tax free until 8,000eur - 42% tax rate at 50,000eur
Switzerland - tax free until 13,500chf - 18% tax rate at 75,000chf (approx 1/3 split of Fed/Kan/Gem)
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Last edited by dodgyken; 03.10.2013 at 11:04.
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Old 03.10.2013, 11:14
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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How much of this perceived value is due to the FX rate movement?

Up until mid 2009 the EUR hovered around 1.6 - it is now 1.2 (give or take).

If you were a local person - how much would you have to earn pre-tax to pay for the item?
Historic exchange rates matter not a jot for purchases made today. Value isn't a perception, it's an absolute.

Nappies cost EUR 4 a pack in Germany. Here in Switzerland, they cost CHF12 for the same pack, or EUR9.79 at today's exchange rates. By my math, I've gotten EUR5.79 more value by purchasing the same goods over the border.
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Old 03.10.2013, 11:14
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

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I think there is just a dip when someone moves here where they have to re-learn to shop savvy. I've been here for 150 years and have managed to work out the best deals for stuff and how to get things done for not much money. Also, I've built up a fab circle of friends which sometimes lets me into the world of "mates rates".

Obviously I still get that stinging feeling in my eyes of them watering at the cost of something but, on the whole I agree with you, it's a by product of living in a country with a high standard of living. It don't come cheap (or free!).
Amazingly in shape!
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Old 03.10.2013, 11:15
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Re: Rich tight bottomed auslanders

Okay, before I go into this, I should note that the comment above on the sudden shift in currency is really important in all this. by having the prices articifically spiked by twenty or more percent, it has really upset the apple cart on a lot of this. That said, as someone in manufacturing here, my $0.02 is:

If the Swiss want to claim that their high cost of labor is offset by their high productivity, then it has to show up in their prices in the form of being competitive. It's really as simple as that. If something costs more in Switzerland than the higher cost has simply resulted in...higher cost. If the price isn't competitive, it is silly to ask a consumer to spend their money poorly. I see no reason to pay more for something because it is Swiss. If it happens to also be better, then yes.

As a manufacturer, I never tell my customers to buy my stuff instead of the Germans' because we are Swiss. Either we get our cost out if we are competiting head-to-head, or we find a way to give the customer a unique value. But it is never sensible to ask a customer to pay more if you are not providing more for the money in some form. And, if you are going to rely on that strategy, there will be a reckoning for you one day, and, in turn, your employees, and their pension funds. Maybe it's when someone like Aldi crashes your market, or when the local economy shrinks and you can't diversify outside of your country because you are not competitive, or when your cusotmers simply stop buying from you because it no longers makes sense for them. But one day, it will come.

But I would never support telling the consumer base that they should overspend to help support a little price fantasyland. It does the consumer no favors, and, in the long term, it does the seller no favors, either.
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