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  #21  
Old 14.12.2014, 12:20
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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Well, except when one of them says he wouldn't recommend root canal treatment and he better pulls out the tooth, and if you are not even 40 believe me you're willing to look for a second opinion no matter the success rate of Swiss dentistry. Plus, apart from my OH I personally know enough people here were who were not that happy with their dentists, which doesn't say anything really, just that they were not happy, rightly or not.
Frankly I don't give a dam' if Swiss dentistry is good or excellent, I care more about my teeth! If something raises question marks I will ask for a second opinion.
Being not even 40, I agree that extraction should be only the last resort if anything else failed. If the tooth could be saved, go for the second opinion.

In my case, under otherwise perfectly fine looking filling, the tooth decay had formed without me knowing it. The other dentist merely suggested to replace the old filling with new one and opened the Pandora's box. That's why it make sense to have X-ray taken from time to time.

I would go with root canal and crown everytime before extraction administered. Then most likely implant in the future. The only teeth anyway that do not make sense to keep are Weisheitszähne. Therefore I had once extraction of wisdom tooth.

At the end of the day, it's your teeth and your smile. I wouldn't let them mess up with my natural look as they please.

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Sometimes it's a consequence of just being a bad dentist - nothing to do with being Swiss or what. I've had great dentists and crap ones in the US. Second opinion can be required anywhere.

And Mercola - fear mongering money grubbing quack, imho.
Looking around on the web, it seems like Dr Mercola van Scaremongerer appears in most of these controversial articles. For the sake of peace of mind, I decided to stop reading them.
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  #22  
Old 14.12.2014, 12:23
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

oh dear : (

poor you, i know what your going through, Ive been put off the dentist here forever after going to ( i wont name the practice ) but one at Bellevue as i was in severe pain, they basically " numbed " the toothe before extracting, even though i told them several times that i could still feel pain and yanked it out in the most painfull way ever, seriously would prefer to give birth a million times than go through that, i asked my Uk dentist what was likely to have happened as with him i feel nothing and he says that my gum was so inflamed the anesthetic didnt work properly, lesson learnt choose wisely and apart from that was struck with a 700CHF bill just for that minus a tooth that my own dentist said he could have saved, luckily for me its a number 7, basically right at theback at the mouth so not visable ( i used to work at the dentist so i know the numbers ) now i go to the dentist in the UK only as i cant seem yet to find a good one suppose just keep looking : (
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Old 14.12.2014, 12:49
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

I do not normally do this, but I will also say that my experience with 'swiss smile' was less than adequate.

I can suggest Dr Stefan Paul, near Bellevue. He is an implant specialist but I am not able to have implants as the 'clearance' in my bite is not large enough (genetic problem affecting my whole teeth and jaw situation)....he told me he sees a lot of referrals from 'englishforum'. He has done my general dental (i did need an extraction...of a 36 year old baby tooth)...

I can also recommend Dr May Zimmerman / 'cosmodent' at the Bahnhofstrasse. She is currently treating two of my kids and she has gone to great lengths to explain the procedures and handle everything with the minimum of trauma.

Either way, extraction in my experience is the cheap/nasty way of handling problems. I have found both Dr Paul and Dr Zimmerman's pricing reasonable too... They both give price estimates ahead of time and clearly laid out treatment plans...
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Old 14.12.2014, 13:09
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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Being not even 40, I agree that extraction should be only the last resort if anything else failed. If the tooth could be saved, go for the second opinion.

In my case, under otherwise perfectly fine looking filling, the tooth decay had formed without me knowing it. The other dentist merely suggested to replace the old filling with new one and opened the Pandora's box. That's why it make sense to have X-ray taken from time to time.

I would go with root canal and crown everytime before extraction administered. Then most likely implant in the future. The only teeth anyway that do not make sense to keep are Weisheitszähne. Therefore I had once extraction of wisdom tooth.

At the end of the day, it's your teeth and your smile. I wouldn't let them mess up with my natural look as they please.
.
I totally agree with you! When other half came home rather panicked at the thought he will have one of his teeth (an upper molar) removed I told him, wait a minute, is this the last resort or is it more convenient, more profitable for the dentist? So we looked together and finally found another dentist that made a great job with the root canal treatment, and now he still has all his teeth.

I personally had one wisdom tooth removed here, in CH. It was perfectly healthy, as luckily I don't have the problems my OH has, I have maybe two fillings, almost perfectly aligned teeth so I could always cleaned them properly, very few issues with me, it saves us a fortune. He on the other hand, is making Invisalign orthodontic treatment, and is not cheap.

I don't want to be misunderstood, there're are plenty of excellent dentists here. Also dental hygienists - very good. My DH wanted us to meet one time a year, I insisted we should see each other two times, I'm obsessed I could have small cavities that will develop without me noticing and complicate things later. Lesson learned!
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Old 14.12.2014, 13:22
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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I totally agree with you! When other half came home rather panicked at the thought he will have one of his teeth (an upper molar) removed I told him, wait a minute, is this the last resort or is it more convenient, more profitable for the dentist? So we looked together and finally found another dentist that made a great job with the root canal treatment, and now he still has all his teeth.

I personally had one wisdom tooth removed here, in CH. It was perfectly healthy, as luckily I don't have the problems my OH has, I have maybe two fillings, almost perfectly aligned teeth so I could always cleaned them properly, very few issues with me, it saves us a fortune. He on the other hand, is making Invisalign orthodontic treatment, and is not cheap.

I don't want to be misunderstood, there're are plenty of excellent dentists here. Also dental hygienists - very good. My DH wanted us to meet one time a year, I insisted we should see each other two times, I'm obsessed I could have small cavities that will develop without me noticing and complicate things later. Lesson learned!

What I found ironic and irritating was that the OP suggested that dentists in Switzerland were eager to extract teeth and the dentists in Germany were not so at all, while "Greybeard" surprised me with the apparent point that the Germans are still eager to extract


AND to make it clear I do NOT believe that Swiss dentists are philantropists and the Germans money hungry, it rather is that artificial teeth in Germany have a tradition and equipment for artificial teeth in Germany has been on offer widely for ages
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Old 14.12.2014, 13:39
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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What I found ironic and irritating was that the OP suggested that dentists in Switzerland were eager to extract teeth and the dentists in Germany were not so at all, while "Greybeard" surprised me with the apparent point that the Germans are still eager to extract


AND to make it clear I do NOT believe that Swiss dentists are philantropists and the Germans money hungry, it rather is that artificial teeth in Germany have a tradition and equipment for artificial teeth in Germany has been on offer widely for ages
If you can find the word 'german' in my previous comments in this thread, I will give you a voucher for a free tooth extraction.

Last edited by MarkH; 14.12.2014 at 15:57.
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Old 14.12.2014, 14:06
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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What I found ironic and irritating was that the OP suggested that dentists in Switzerland were eager to extract teeth and the dentists in Germany were not so at all, while "Greybeard" surprised me with the apparent point that the Germans are still eager to extract

AND to make it clear I do NOT believe that Swiss dentists are philantropists and the Germans money hungry, it rather is that artificial teeth in Germany have a tradition and equipment for artificial teeth in Germany has been on offer widely for ages
The reason is fairly simple: In Germany, most of dental treatment is paid by health insurance. According to the insurance tariff, replacing teeth often is more profitable than fixing them.

Since patients don't seem to care much as long as the treatment is paid by the insurance, dentist tend to extract and replace them because insurance companies rarely check if the treatment plan really makes sense. Such assessments would be too expensive. So, as long as the form is filled out properly, for which dentists have computers, dentists just go the easiest and most profitable way.

For instance, for many decades, German dentists have made more partial dentures fixed by telescopic crowns than all other European countries put together. At an international dental congress a few years ago a German professor clearly stated that the only reason is the German dental tariff. For some reasons, telescopic crowns are overpaid, so they are used far more often than less invasive yet equally useful solutions.

In the course of more than 30 years, I employed several young dentists from Germany. They had to completely change their way if thinking after coming to Switzerland.

I'm afraid many Swiss dentist would do the same if the Swiss tariff allowed it. It is very difficult to do the ethically right things under severe financial pressure.
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Old 14.12.2014, 15:41
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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If you can find the word 'german' in my comments in this thread, I will give you a voucher for a free tooth extraction.
waiting for the voucher nice christmas gift
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Old 14.12.2014, 16:35
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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waiting for the voucher nice christmas gift
I think you mistake christmas for halloween...

Freudian slip?
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Old 14.12.2014, 17:31
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

I overheard two women talking outside of the Swiss clinic
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Old 14.12.2014, 22:01
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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The reason is fairly simple: In Germany, most of dental treatment is paid by health insurance. According to the insurance tariff, replacing teeth often is more profitable than fixing them.

Since patients don't seem to care much as long as the treatment is paid by the insurance, dentist tend to extract and replace them because insurance companies rarely check if the treatment plan really makes sense. Such assessments would be too expensive. So, as long as the form is filled out properly, for which dentists have computers, dentists just go the easiest and most profitable way.

For instance, for many decades, German dentists have made more partial dentures fixed by telescopic crowns than all other European countries put together. At an international dental congress a few years ago a German professor clearly stated that the only reason is the German dental tariff. For some reasons, telescopic crowns are overpaid, so they are used far more often than less invasive yet equally useful solutions.

In the course of more than 30 years, I employed several young dentists from Germany. They had to completely change their way if thinking after coming to Switzerland.

I'm afraid many Swiss dentist would do the same if the Swiss tariff allowed it. It is very difficult to do the ethically right things under severe financial pressure.

Thanks for the explanation. The only question I ask / asked me is what I would do if I lived in Krefeld with a second home in Beirut ? And this in spite of all the dentists praising my teeth (NOT me as to them I am the fool who does not care enough) . Grandmum in Schaffhausen got all her teeth replaced in the late 1940ies- ; Mum in about 1955 when asking a Dentist in Zürich was told Zürich is a modern and civilized place, your teeth will be repaired
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Old 14.12.2014, 22:06
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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If you can find the word 'german' in my previous comments in this thread, I will give you a voucher for a free tooth extraction.

post nr 4


Not your post, but you can share the costs of the voucher
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Old 14.12.2014, 22:30
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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Thanks for the explanation. The only question I ask / asked me is what I would do if I lived in Krefeld with a second home in Beirut ? And this in spite of all the dentists praising my teeth (NOT me as to them I am the fool who does not care enough) . Grandmum in Schaffhausen got all her teeth replaced in the late 1940ies- ; Mum in about 1955 when asking a Dentist in Zürich was told Zürich is a modern and civilized place, your teeth will be repaired
Sorry Wolli, very difficult question. How about living in Duisburg and having a second home, say, in Nicosia?

As for your famous Grandmum in Schaffhausen, of course that was normal practice back then. In WW II, about 20% of all Swiss Army recruits were totally edentulous (read: toothless), around 24 % in Germany and almost 30% in GB. When I was in boot camp in the late 'sixties, it was down to about 1%, while it was around 16% in Germany and 20% in GB. Now it's around 0.01% in Switzerland, but I don't have the current figures of other countries at hand.
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Old 14.12.2014, 22:50
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

Sometimes it really baffles me how the people need to be guided to the dentist. Here is a short form procedure:

1) Go online and identify dentists in your vicinity say 10-20km .
2) Send emails with relevant queries.
3) Evaluate answers from your contacted clinics.
4) Make appointment with the most relevant hits.
5) Have your first dental appointment at selected practice and ask yourself how you felt about it. Customer satisfied? If not come back to point no. 3.
6) Establish long term relationship (not intimate ) with your dentist so that you can come back to that place in the future.
7) Trust your dentist and your choice

Sorry but if you cannot simply sort it out by yourself then you must be a tard.
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Old 14.12.2014, 22:57
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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Yo, Captain, I'd like to send you a PM but I can't.

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Old 14.12.2014, 23:10
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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Yo, Captain, I'd like to send you a PM but I can't.

Tom
Long queue with online dental queries per chance or clean up the mail box?
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Old 14.12.2014, 23:21
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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Thanks for the explanation. The only question I ask / asked me is what I would do if I lived in Krefeld with a second home in Beirut ? And this in spite of all the dentists praising my teeth (NOT me as to them I am the fool who does not care enough) . Grandmum in Schaffhausen got all her teeth replaced in the late 1940ies- ; Mum in about 1955 when asking a Dentist in Zürich was told Zürich is a modern and civilized place, your teeth will be repaired
elsewhere at a much more reasonable cost.
I will have the implant done in South Africa for 1000 chf.
Cheaper even including flight costs.
Who in their right mind pays around 6000 chf in Zurich?(Swiss Smile quote).

You deserve 3rd prize: 5 tooth extraction vouchers.
First prize is 1 tooth extraction.voucher
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Old 14.12.2014, 23:32
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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elsewhere at a much more reasonable cost.
I will have the implant done in South Africa for 1000 chf.
Cheaper even including flight costs.
Who in their right mind pays around 6000 chf in Zurich?(Swiss Smile quote).

You deserve 3rd prize: 5 tooth extraction vouchers.
First prize is 1 tooth extraction.voucher
Chill out boet! Very true but on the other hand one has to consider it as a different market. Back in the days dr.Dinkelmann from Hatfield Pretoria during my memorable Tuks days had done incredible job on my root canal with inlays in mid 90's. I was satisfied back then paying ZAR1000 for the whole treatment. However here it's CH and different cost of living. Having said that you must judge what's best for you - waiting until next overseas trip or emergency. I had to make my choice due to the latter one
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Old 14.12.2014, 23:43
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

I've been going to Dr McDermott in Zurich and can really recommend him. After having another dentist suggest I have my wisdom teeth removed, Dr McDermott said that he'd rather try to save them and did some fairly complicated maneuvers involving advanced gymnastics and a scaffolding around my face to do some fillings in hard to reach places.
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Old 14.12.2014, 23:49
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Re: Swiss Dentist hell

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I've been going to Dr McDermott in Zurich and can really recommend him. After having another dentist suggest I have my wisdom teeth removed, Dr McDermott said that he'd rather try to save them and did some fairly complicated maneuvers involving advanced gymnastics and a scaffolding around my face to do some fillings in hard to reach places.
I also went to dr McDonald's in Zurich and he filled my cavities out with Mr Burger. Afterwards, I was able to do a swift somersault and vomit straight away. It was a fantastic experience of self esteem and emptying dr Stomach from fasces all the same
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