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  #41  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:16
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Although I am Dutch, I avoid KLM. I got fed up with them as well several years ago. I still like Swiss for long haul (never had the chance to fly the Asian airlines or Emirates). BA for me is a no-go as well, but that may be due to the fact that out of 10 flights they lost my luggage 7 times.

And Treverus: not all Dutch are cheapskates!!
Never flown Swiss long-haul, but short haul hasn't impressed me so far.
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  #42  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:22
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

Why all the hate for BA? I find them to be pretty good.

I was impressed once when as a student, I missed an economy flight (my own fault) to Hong Kong by a few minutes and when I went to the desk, the just booked me on the next flight (4 hours later) no fuss, no charge.

When flying business, the lounges are nice and the food on the plane is good. Plus you get scones with jam and clotted cream! What's not to like?

I also don't find Swiss to be anything special. The main advantage is good placement of gates etc. for speedy runs through the airport.
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  #43  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:23
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Exactly, as with all these things, it only takes one bad experience to turn your opinion on them. Bad service I can forgive though, even the fact a member of the ground staff was shouting and swearing in my face. What I can't excuse is that they've admitted no responsibility for what happened and that I was somehow to blame.
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  #44  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:24
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I think this is besides the point. If a broker misrepresents the airline's service or mis-sells extras, then it is the responsibility of the airline to take that up and if necessary cease working with that broker. It's not just the customer's fault for going with the broker.
It's not the airlines fault either that in this instance the ticket show ZERO bags out - TWO bags back. The airline is following the T&C as set out, in that extra luggage is chargable. The passenger has the responsibility to check their booking and ticket (the "are you sure" box). The airline can choose to override charges and correct the flight information - and almost certainly would, if the passenger was someone who flew regularly with them and/or had purchased a higher booking class ticket.

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Never flown Swiss long-haul, but short haul hasn't impressed me so far.
Swiss short-haul is above average (which doesn't make it good) but long haul (Business) is very good. All US based airlines should be avoided for long haul flights (economy) and many have outdated business class cabins.

When I book for personal travel I try to balance cost with service and the number of changes - and stick to airlines within Miles and More. For long haul it is now worth (IMHO) seeking out flights on the A380 - certainly with Lufthansa economy has good space - but above all the plane is really quiet.

Finally, for long-haul, a face mask and ear plugs will get you a reasonable chunk of sleep (4-6hrs) without the need for drugs.
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  #45  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:25
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Ryanair used to be terrible but in the last few months they have really upped their game. Have flown with them ten times in the last few months and every one of the flights has been on time or early. The cabin crew are polite and helpful and it is almost unrecognisable.
The first ever flight we took with them to Cork, there was one too many passengers. Not a comfortable feeling when the IRA was active...
I never did Ryanair, but i am a huge fan of Easyjet. I recently took some flights with legacy airlines because Easyjet didn't go to the places I was going and it was a real culture shock. Somehow the legacy carriers don't understand the value of "easy". You still need to go to a desk to check in (I thought those only still existed in 1980s Hollywood movies). Then the boarding is so retro too. First the business class people board. Then the cattle class people are paraded through the business class. I'm sure the business class people must love that. C'mon, if you have two doors, why not use both simultaneously and save half the time, or at least board the business last so they feel some advantage for the extra they pay? And then the food, yuk. I bet on Easyjet we were pampered with choice of couscous or croque monsieur or porridge or ... all of it costing less than 2 or 3 quid, including the drink and sweets ... but now we get a pretzel in a plastic bag. One pretzel that somebody wrapped in plastic. Is this some sort of a joke? Can i have two? No. In what way is this better than Easyjet? It's free? Course it's free. It's not free because of anything called service. It's free because nobody in their right mind would pay for this cr*p you stupid cow.

I think you need that exposure from time to time to know why you prefer Easyjet.
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  #46  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:27
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

The only reason(s) I would choose not to fly with a particular airline are a) questionable safety and b) a flight number considered symbolic to the Illuminati.
In all other cases I am driven by cost, they could swear at me for the entire flight for all I care.
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  #47  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:34
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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i am a huge fan of Easyjet.
Me too. The EasyJet cabin staff actually seem to enjoy their job. Makes a huge difference.

Last time I flew BA it was business class - trying to be posh but actually just unfriendly and miserable.
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  #48  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:34
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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It's not the airlines fault either that in this instance the ticket show ZERO bags out - TWO bags back. The airline is following the T&C as set out, in that extra luggage is chargable. The passenger has the responsibility to check their booking and ticket (the "are you sure" box). The airline can choose to override charges and correct the flight information - and almost certainly would, if the passenger was someone who flew regularly with them and/or had purchased a higher booking class ticket.
But then they should explain this. Who actually ready the TOCs? Surely there could be a warning during the booking process saying "You are booking in the lowest quality segment. This gives our staff the right to shout at you should you require assitance. And if you made a mistake, it's on you. Pay $100 more and we won't shout at you so much and even change your booking for free if you should happen to fudge it.".

Simple, honest, and the customer can make an informed choice.
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  #49  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:51
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Last time I flew BA it was business class - trying to be posh but actually just unfriendly and miserable.
Looks like you flew with my ex-neighbour
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  #50  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:53
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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From the way you guys write, I can see who pays for their own flights and who gets to enjoy gazillions of air miles because they fly for their employer


Even though I am not a gazillion miler (yet), "gets to enjoy" and "gazillions of air miles" are two phrases that don't go together regardless of which airline you fly.
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  #51  
Old 14.01.2015, 18:57
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I think this is besides the point. If a broker misrepresents the airline's service or mis-sells extras, then it is the responsibility of the airline to take that up and if necessary cease working with that broker. It's not just the customer's fault for going with the broker.
Do you really think so?

I don't think an airline can practically stop a third party broker from booking it's services.

Anyone can setup a website selling tickets. There's nothing to stop even you setting up a website, taking people's money, then going to the KLM site and booking tickets in their name.

I just don't see how you can expect any airline to take responsibility for someone elses mistakes. They have enough of their own to deal with - like losing bags, delays and overbooked flights.

Sure - KLM could have been nicer to the OP and it seems like not such a big deal to sort it out. But maybe he was the 100th person that day to complain about a ticket he bought from some crappy website and there were a bunch of people in the queue behind him with problems that KLM actually have some responsibility to sort out.
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  #52  
Old 14.01.2015, 19:10
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

If you become a member of flying blue, they allow you one checked baggage for free. It saved me a lot of hassle and I was able to make take overweight baggage back at a lower cost as well.

I agree that KLM's customer service sucks but I think that's standard for almost any airlines nowadays.
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  #53  
Old 14.01.2015, 19:18
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

I haven't read through this thread, but I can say that I've never had a problem with KLM at all.

Admittedly the worse flight I had was with them but I can't and won't blame KLM as it wasn't their fault.

I was at Norwich, ahem, International waiting for a flight to Amsterdam, and then onwards to Zürich. The flight was cancelled due to adverse weather conditions. Understandably so as when looking out of the lounge window you could see the parked aircraft noses which were about 20 metres away, but you couldn't see the wings or the tail due to the fog.

KLM automatically booked me onto a later flight to Manchester to make a connection on a Swiss flight to Zürich.

I got home, admittedly around 8 hours late, but I can't complain, as under the circumstances it was perfect service in that they solved the problem.
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  #54  
Old 14.01.2015, 19:31
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Do you really think so?

I don't think an airline can practically stop a third party broker from booking it's services.

Anyone can setup a website selling tickets. There's nothing to stop even you setting up a website, taking people's money, then going to the KLM site and booking tickets in their name.
I don't think the airline is as innocent as you suggest.

If a broker is able to offer tickets cheaper than the airline is selling them at, then I don't think the broker is merely sceen scraping the airline's booking system and roguishly selling that on.


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I just don't see how you can expect any airline to take responsibility for someone elses mistakes. They have enough of their own to deal with - like losing bags, delays and overbooked flights.

Sure - KLM could have been nicer to the OP and it seems like not such a big deal to sort it out. But maybe he was the 100th person that day to complain about a ticket he bought from some crappy website and there were a bunch of people in the queue behind him with problems that KLM actually have some responsibility to sort out.
If they don't want to deal with people then maybe they shouldn't be an airline.
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  #55  
Old 14.01.2015, 19:37
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

I'm Dutch, but always try to avoid them and book Swiss instead when flying back home. Swiss costs the same or less, allows me to bring a piece of check-in luggage for free (KLM charges EUR 30 for a round-trip), and offers me a normal sandwich (KLM serves a dry biscuit or a handful of crisps).

Last but not least, the trick they pulled a few months ago to gain new members by telling them they would then not have to pay for bringing a piece of luggage, after which about 20'000 new members got a big FU from KLM shortly after by informing them they have to pay for their luggage after all.

They're quite active on social media (with good response times from the looks of it), so you might get a hold of them by leaving them a Twitter or Facebook message.

I do wonder if the people working at the airport here are actually employed by KLM, or a company like Swissport.

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  #56  
Old 14.01.2015, 19:40
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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What he said.

Basically KLM sit somewhere between Easyjet and Ryanair on my personal scale. And rather closer to Ryanair.
Turns out you have a pretty good personal scale. According to Which? magazine, that's exactly where KLM sits. With our very own Swiss head and shoulders above the competition
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  #57  
Old 14.01.2015, 20:01
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I'm Dutch, but always try to avoid them and book Swiss instead when flying back home. Swiss costs the same or less, allows me to bring a piece of check-in luggage for free (KLM charges EUR 30 for a round-trip), and offers me a normal sandwich (KLM serves a dry biscuit or a handful of crisps)
Depending on the type of Swiss ticket you buy, you pay for cvhecked luggage too !
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Old 14.01.2015, 21:38
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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By this time a good hour had past and realising we were getting nowhere I decided in the end to pay the excess and run to the gate in order to catch my flight. Which I didn’t.
Wait! You argued so long that you missed your flight? Did you lose track of time? That, my good (wo)man, is commitment to the cause.
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Old 14.01.2015, 21:40
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

I can't believe you all fell for the "it's because you didn't book it through us" line...
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Old 14.01.2015, 21:45
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I can't believe you all fell for the "it's because you didn't book it through us" line...
I thought the airlines had to agree to allow the cheap booking agency to book their airline? If so, it is a terrible excuse.
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