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Old 15.01.2015, 12:44
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Go and have a look on the Swiss website, i think it's called "economy light" and whilst this may or may not be available on the GVA-AMS route, it certainly is on the GVA-LHR routing.

http://www.swiss.com/ch/en/Book/Outbound/GVA-LON

and you just waited and waited and finally missed your flight.....
Aha! Yes, that fare does not exist for ZRH-AMS, although I wish it was looking at the prices (regardless if I have to pay for luggage or not).

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If you are a flying blue member, you are allowed to take one piece of check-in luggage for free. This was something that was introduced last year, before everybody could just bring one piece of luggage for free.
Nope, they got rid of this rule again shortly after gaining 20'000 or so new members. Now everyone has to pay for luggage, even flying blue and business members.

Last edited by Harrie Nak; 15.01.2015 at 12:58.
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  #82  
Old 15.01.2015, 13:14
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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But I am a German who has lived in the Netherlands and like most stereotypes is there a true core in it. I found the Dutch to be very very cost focussed (while Swiss are completely focussed on perceived quality and Germany is not just geographically right between the two). Just as I find Swiss people strange who pay any price just because they are convinced that "Swiss made" got to be best did I equally shake my head about Dutch friends trying to save money in the silliest ways. So the Dutch were more often than not about finding a "good enough" solution to a problem while the Swiss would find the "best" one regardless of costs. Many times is a good enough solution my preference, but when it comes to airlines to I prefer a bit more than the minimum...
The Dutch simply expect value for money. When they pay a lot, they expect a lot in terms of quality and service. If they get something for cheap, they tend to manage their expectations.

This is actually the thing that annoys me most about Switzerland. There seems to be no correlation whatsoever between price and quality and/or customer service.

And even though this difference in mindset has resulted in some arguments between my boyfriend (who is not Swiss, but has been living here for 15 years already) and myself (with him even calling me a 'penny pincher' at times), I'm pretty sure he's ok with the fact that I'm not willing to waste 50,000chf on our wedding, simply to feel like a princess for a day.

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Nope, they got rid of this rule again shortly after gaining 20'000 or so new members. Now everyone has to pay for luggage, even flying blue and business members.
Hmm, they must have done that pretty recently then. That's a bit silly, because I'm sure that a lot more people will now choose to fly with Easyjet after all.
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  #83  
Old 15.01.2015, 13:28
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I'm pretty sure he's ok with the fact that I'm not willing to waste 50,000chf on our wedding, simply to feel like a princess for a day.

The good ones really are all taken
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Old 15.01.2015, 13:48
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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The Dutch simply expect value for money. When they pay a lot, they expect a lot in terms of quality and service. If they get something for cheap, they tend to manage their expectations.

This is actually the thing that annoys me most about Switzerland. There seems to be no correlation whatsoever between price and quality and/or customer service.

And even though this difference in mindset has resulted in some arguments between my boyfriend (who is not Swiss, but has been living here for 15 years already) and myself (with him even calling me a 'penny pincher' at times), I'm pretty sure he's ok with the fact that I'm not willing to waste 50,000chf on our wedding, simply to feel like a princess for a day.
And I am not criticizing the Dutch way at all, I am just saying "that's how the Netherlands work" and as a result would not expect anything else from KLM than being value for money - especially when flying economy.
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Old 15.01.2015, 13:50
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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And I am not criticizing the Dutch way at all, I am just saying "that's how the Netherlands work" and as a result would not expect anything else from KLM than being value for money - especially when flying economy.
I'm good with "getting what you pay for", and definitely see a market for an airline offering less for a lower price. But KLM isn't thaaaaat cheap.
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Old 15.01.2015, 14:32
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

Having read your sad story, isn't your main grudge with www.cheaptickets.ch who messed up your booking? Then you later upset KLM, and got some bad customer service. I certainly won't be avoiding KLM on the strength of your complaint.
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Old 15.01.2015, 14:39
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

Sheesh. I had kind of struck off Scare France after AF447 (concerned about their safety culture, unsure if an unfounded hunch) but thinking KLM can't be that awful. Sounds like I might be wrong, although a couple of things here that remind me about travel (and I have been a frequent traveller).

One is that booking through anything but the airline's website is going to make changes or hiccup difficult to resolve after booking. This is because mainly the airline does not have direct rights to the e-ticket as it didn't issue it. So when things come up, the airline has to send a change request which then must be actioned by the actual agent to reissue the e-ticket. Damn annoying and 95%+ of the time you need to be the liaison (for various forced reasons). However, within 24 hours of departure normally a ticket is under airport control. This means technically the airline should have full control over your ticket and doesn't need to revert to the agent.

The second is airline staff at outstations (i.e. ports which are not hubs or main bases for the airline in question, as would be the case of KLM in Zurich). As is commonplace all over the world, outstations are normally staffed with contracted staff either from another airline or a ground handling company (Dnata, Swissport, etc.) with one single airline representative who mainly just manages the station operations / acts as a customer liaison. Ground handling company staff tend to be really substandard both in competency and customer service skills. When irregularities come up, they are completely helpless in seizing the initiative on the system. If they can't achieve what they want from procedures, then no means no - so sorry, so sad, get lost.

Looks like I might have to add KL to the "no-fly" list, unless I haven't much choice (flying to/from Netherlands). In Australia they often send really tempting cheap Australia to Europe fares (usually via Guangzhou codeshare on partner China Southern). I've flown with BA, Swiss and Lufthansa on the shorthaul so far, in addition to Ryanair and Easyjet. I haven't had any problems - touch wood - though I wouldn't expect much in terms of inflight offerings in Economy on anything any more; viz. BA birdseed or biscuit, Swiss a pastry or sandwich, Lufthansa the same cheese sandwich, etc.. For the low cost carriers, it's all about following their rules to the letter and expecting not much more than a bus ride.
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Old 15.01.2015, 14:40
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Having read your sad story, isn't your main grudge with www.cheaptickets.ch who messed up your booking? Then you later upset KLM, and got some bad customer service. I certainly won't be avoiding KLM on the strength of your complaint.
Then don't avoid them on the strength of my complaint, avoid them because they offer a service equable with easyjet for double the price. Or that you can get far better service with Swiss for the same price. Or that they offer you shitty pretzels and call them a snack.

Although disappointed with cheaptickets.ch, the mistake wasn't a bad one. If only a single member of the ground staff at KLM-Air France had an ounce of initiative and half a brain between them then it would have easily been resolved. Cheaptickets.ch refunded my ticket, KLM treated me like a leper and then told me to f**k off.
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Old 15.01.2015, 15:08
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

Was it KLM that told you to F*** off, or Swissport?

Your chance to complain here, http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/klm.htm
but many are very happy...
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Old 15.01.2015, 15:21
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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Was it KLM that told you to F*** off, or Swissport?

Your chance to complain here, http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/klm.htm
but many are very happy...
Pretty sure it was Air France-KLM. They share a desk together and they had a uniform on from the airline. Either way it doesn't matter who it was, they're employed by the airline and are so representing them. It'd be the same if Swissport lost my bag whilst I was flying with Swiss. I wouldn't complain to Swissport, I'd complain to Swiss.

Thanks for the link, I'll copy paste my complaint there
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  #91  
Old 15.01.2015, 15:32
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

wow, that is some s**tty service!
I have a very different experience with KLM though, I always travel with them and I am really happy with their services. I do however agree that the personnel in CH is not the nicest.
I showed up for my most recent flight from Geneva, with a business ticket that allowed me 3 suitcases of 32 kilos each (yes I travel with a lot of crap). The person proceeded to tell me that my bags were too heavy (the heaviest was 27 kilos) and I said no, I travel business my allowance is 32 kilos. He then checked and said no, but since I was a Flying Blue elite member it was due to that fact (which is not true) I decided to let it be as I did not need to argue with the guy, but if someone would be less assertive they might have had to pay for an non-existent extra weight.
I think you should twit your story honestly...best of luck!
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Old 15.01.2015, 16:43
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

I am one person that has had good experiences when flying KLM/Air France. They have a once weekly promotion where they offer a destination for a really good price. example: Bali fpr 699 CHF, Dubai for 329 CHF....etc. I literally have a weekly reminder set to check whats on offer. They also have great connections to the Carribean and other places that usually are amiss when flying from ZRH.

My last trip with them was to St. Martin and I had a very pleasant experience. The food on Air France was great and they even serve Champagne in coach
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Old 15.01.2015, 17:03
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I'm good with "getting what you pay for", and definitely see a market for an airline offering less for a lower price. But KLM isn't thaaaaat cheap.
In my experience they are quite regularly thaaaat cheap... I avoid them for intercontinental flights but have used them twice the last years for Singapore-Bali trips. If you make a fair comparison (aka "with luggage") were they cheaper than the budget airlines!
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Old 15.01.2015, 17:07
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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My last trip with them was to St. Martin and I had a very pleasant experience. The food on Air France was great and they even serve Champagne in coach
I am really happy with what they offer too either coach or business. I love the stroopwafel I get, and it is only a one hour flight!
I recently complained with American Airlines and even though they apologized, their excuses were miserable.
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Old 15.01.2015, 17:49
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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In my experience they are quite regularly thaaaat cheap... I avoid them for intercontinental flights but have used them twice the last years for Singapore-Bali trips. If you make a fair comparison (aka "with luggage") were they cheaper than the budget airlines!
Agreed, I just compared prices with Easyjet, because I'm planning to go to the Netherlands again over the summer. And even though their initial ticket fairs are higher and they seem to charge for check-in luggage now, for the complete package they are still cheaper than Easyjet. Only if you decide to travel without any check-in luggage, Easyjet would probably be cheaper. Otherwise, they're not too far apart.
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Old 15.01.2015, 18:24
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

Never fly Condor. You have to pay extra to be able to watch movies on long haul flights...
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Old 15.01.2015, 18:43
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

Well, what a coincidence. Having posted earlier to say one should never use a ticket seller, I'm considering doing just that.

Some pretty good prices on a BA sale right now. Flight I'm looking at is 640 CHF return. However, the CHF has risen just over 10% against the pound today so checked on Lastminute.com and they have the same flights for £414 which currently is 555 CHF.

It's not possible to get the BA website to price flights in sterling when departing from Switzerland. Apparently one can ring up BA and make them do it, but their pricing engine is different (for example, the same flight I'm taking, via LHR, is about £200 more if going from LHR itself - ie it's a Switzerland-only sale).

So tomorrow, if BA don't update their CHF prices, I'll probably be breaking my own rule to save 85 CHF.

Edit: Flight booked on lastminute.com.

Last edited by adrianlondon; 16.01.2015 at 13:30.
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Old 15.01.2015, 19:16
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

I've noticed Easyjet have been becoming increasingly anal with enforcing carry-on limits of late. I guess this may have to do with people pushing the limits in avoiding the baggage fees. Does anybody have any recent experience with other airlines, I mean in terms of them turning a blind eye to luggage that doesn't fit the criteria? This is also a factor worthy of consideration when chosing or not choisng an airline on account of baggage fees.
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Old 15.01.2015, 19:39
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

For non-budget airlines I've only had grief once when going over the weight limit ... Swiss.

Their limit is now 23Kg (same as almost every other airline I believe) but a few years ago it was 20. Checking in at LCY (to BSL) my bag weighted 21.5Kg and they made me repack and take 1.5Kg out and put it in my hand luggage. Yeah, that made a difference.
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Old 15.01.2015, 19:45
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Re: Avoid KLM - the flag carrier that think's its a budget airline

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I've noticed Easyjet have been becoming increasingly anal with enforcing carry-on limits of late. I guess this may have to do with people pushing the limits in avoiding the baggage fees. Does anybody have any recent experience with other airlines, I mean in terms of them turning a blind eye to luggage that doesn't fit the criteria? This is also a factor worthy of consideration when chosing or not choisng an airline on account of baggage fees.
I was scared of this on my recent flight on EZY from Stansted to Geneva. I was on carry-on only and no matter how hard I tried (damn shopping in London), I couldn't fit everything in my already stretched out hand baggage. My technique of stuffing as much as I could into my coat was also at limits.

Stansted have an interesting thing (obviously put forth by the retailers) where you can have one "standard" shopping bag in addition to your carry on allowance, and it won't count at the gate. So I purchased a couple of things (bottle of water and some shortbread) and the lady offered me a jute shopping bag (intended to be reusable). I ended up repacking slightly and put a couple of soft gifts and folded clothes, as well as my laptop in sleeve, in that jute bag. I wore two coats - the coat (or jacket, rather) I came to London with and the new coat which I bought in London - at the gate. There were quite a few who were told to either combine bags into one (ladies handbags outside of the main carry-on were a big culprit) or they were forced to gate check a bag.

I fronted up with my main carry on and jute bag with the most pleasant disposition I could muster, offered my boarding pass, was scanned and waved through. Lucky or not, I have no idea. But there we go. I was probably more lucky that they didn't make me put the bag in the sizing bracket. It didn't look like it would pass the "guaranteed" bracket and probably wouldn't pass the maximum size bracket either (by a fraction, mind you, but still)!

In hindsight, it would probably have been cheaper and/or far easier to have the option of a checked bag. (I spent about GBP 8 or so on products and the jute bag). But there you go.

Certainly from what I could see, EZY were not forgiving at all in letting more than one bag through, but seemed to turn a blind eye / accept the one standard shopping bag (including the jute shopping bag I obtained from the duty free store). This is important to note as most carriers allow you to exclude at least a small personal item, be it a ladies handbag, a book, a laptop (or laptop bag, as long as it is thin) or the like. With EZY, it is strictly one item only. If you have a coat with deep pockets, start stuffing it.
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