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  #81  
Old 22.04.2008, 00:09
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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It's kind of easy to sit in an ivory tower if you can actually afford to pay for higher quality, as long as it is actually the quality that you are paying for and not the flag on the packaging.

Don't forget that a great deal of people aren't on such a high salary and so look to save money wherever they can, this includes grocery shopping.
Mikey I've had this discussion so many times with high income people. If your a dad with three kids on a minimum wage, your going to prioritize your child's nutrition before that of the chickens welfare. It's called survival.
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  #82  
Old 22.04.2008, 11:00
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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It's kind of easy to sit in an ivory tower if you can actually afford to pay for higher quality, as long as it is actually the quality that you are paying for and not the flag on the packaging.

Don't forget that a great deal of people aren't on such a high salary and so look to save money wherever they can, this includes grocery shopping.
Er, it must be very nice to have an ivory tower, as long as it's not a new ivory tower. That'd be baaad. Elephants.

I wish I could afford to shop at Farmers Markets every time...

@Oldhand: If nutrition were the only factor people considered, we wouldn't be worrying too much about meat.

People only care about the price, not the quality. Or they want 'luxury'.

Shop local.
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  #83  
Old 22.04.2008, 11:26
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Apparently it is well known in the industry that the Brits (Tesco, Sainsbury's, ASDA etc) take the best for the UK, the other european nations then go in at various levels and at the very bottom of the pile, is Migros and COOP.
There is another angle to this. Over 20 million customers shop at Tesco each week. Three times the total population of Switzerland and that's in just one UK supermarket chain. Much as we think Migros and Coop are a duopoly, their clout is nothing like Tescos. There's a big discount for guaranteed turnover like that.
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  #84  
Old 22.04.2008, 11:30
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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There is another angle to this. Over 20 million customers shop at Tesco each week. Three times the total population of Switzerland and that's in just one UK supermarket chain.
Also, Tesco doesn't only operate in the UK.

However, Coop has a strategic alliance for buying good with Reewe which puts it in a similar position as Tesco.
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  #85  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:09
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Mr Happy: I suppose your handle/id was chosen before you moved to CH? It makes me sort of sad that so many aspects of Switzerland make you so disgruntled (and you're even shouting now) and there doesn't seem to be much to do about it except wait for another relocation.

You are absolutely correct, my handle was chosen the day I met my now wife. Though Noel Edmunds named his winky the same name which takes away some of the glammer..

And I am vexed about CH, not so much because I have it tough because I most definetly don't, but because it shouldn't be this bad, you don't expect backwardness from Switzerland. Romania, Kosovo yes. CH should be at the fore-front... Highest standard of living my a*s. I do feel fooled into coming here and yes, I am trying to move on. The Swiss upping themselves is one big lie. I don't yet know them well enough to know if they really believe it or they do it to make themselves feel better.. Coming from the UK where self-depreciation is a national sport Switzerlands "we're great" is very annoying. You know the other day I pointed out to a colleague that Switzerland has 50% more rain than the UK "yeah right" he said, so I printed the proof and he refused to look at it. I bought a pair of welly's last year, I haven't owned a pair since I was 9...
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  #86  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:12
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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There is another angle to this. Over 20 million customers shop at Tesco each week. Three times the total population of Switzerland and that's in just one UK supermarket chain. Much as we think Migros and Coop are a duopoly, their clout is nothing like Tescos. There's a big discount for guaranteed turnover like that.


If you've a reasonably sized network set up, the size of the market doesn't matter. Take ASDA or Waitrose or some other UK stores, they don't have a patch on Tesco's 20m customers but still offer more choice and selection and value for money (possibly, I am not convinced that UK stores are cheaper than Swiss but I do believe both are too expensive) than COOP or Migros. I am firmly in (as you may have gathered) of the opinion that it is the number of customers coming into the store that matters, not if you are in a country, of 7m or 70m that should dictate your product range.

"Switzerland! Thinking small and achieving it, every day"
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  #87  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:21
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

This one should be fun to watch for a while...
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  #88  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:38
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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You know the other day I pointed out to a colleague that Switzerland has 50% more rain than the UK "yeah right" he said, so I printed the proof and he refused to look at it.
Switzerland has at least 50% more rain than any other place on earth - looking out of the window makes me feeling depressed.... But, you're right - its funny when you talk to Swiss people - many really believe that everything here is sooo much better than in other places and typically reject any type of fact based discussion of quality of life (especially true for German speaking CH). I do agree that the material standard if living here is very high (at least for the average person), but I could easily name a long list of other places where I would prefer to live (at least if I had enough money to stop working). But for the time being I'm still here, so probably I should stop complaining....
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Old 22.04.2008, 12:55
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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If you've a reasonably sized network set up, the size of the market doesn't matter. Take ASDA or Waitrose or some other UK stores, they don't have a patch on Tesco's 20m customers but still offer more choice and selection and value for money (possibly, I am not convinced that UK stores are cheaper than Swiss but I do believe both are too expensive) than COOP or Migros. I am firmly in (as you may have gathered) of the opinion that it is the number of customers coming into the store that matters, not if you are in a country, of 7m or 70m that should dictate your product range.

"Switzerland! Thinking small and achieving it, every day"
Err, wasn't that my point. 20 million customers a week is relevant in determining your ability to price competitively and is directly linked to your turnover.

Just for the record, ASDA has 8 million customers a week, still bigger than the entire population of CH. It's also owned by Walmart which adds considerable clout.
Waitrose is smaller but is not in the price for quality game. It's only interested in quality and targets the Marks and Spencer crowd.

And none of the above - ASDA/Walmart, Tesco, Waitrose or Sainsburys come to that matter are in the business of supporting small local stores outside the main city centres like the Coop and Migros are. Their power, and cost base, is driven by superstores.
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  #90  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:59
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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[/I]
I bought a pair of welly's last year, I haven't owned a pair since I was 9...
Presumably you weren't in the UK then last year to experience the worst flood in decades. Something to be grateful to Switzerland for?
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  #91  
Old 22.04.2008, 13:31
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Presumably you weren't in the UK then last year to experience the worst flood in decades. Something to be grateful to Switzerland for?
Ps Re the Wellies - you forgot to tell us where you bought them and whether "Mr. Happy" was happy with the price and the quality compared to wellies he's seen outside of CH. Not like you to miss an opportunity like that!
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  #92  
Old 22.04.2008, 13:36
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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And none of the above - ASDA/Walmart, Tesco, Waitrose or Sainsburys come to that matter are in the business of supporting small local stores outside the main city centres like the Coop and Migros are. Their power, and cost base, is driven by superstores.
I didn't realise it until a period between jobs when I had no car, but many of these superstores are inaccessible for anyone without a car. So much for affordable groceries for the less well off.
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  #93  
Old 22.04.2008, 14:30
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Presumably you weren't in the UK then last year to experience the worst flood in decades. Something to be grateful to Switzerland for?
There were floods in Switzerland too (Bern and Luzern were flooded several times in the last years and people got even killed).
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  #94  
Old 22.04.2008, 14:36
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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E
Just for the record, ASDA has 8 million customers a week, still bigger than the entire population of CH. It's also owned by Walmart which adds considerable clout.
Austria has a population comparable to Switzerland (8.5M) and a similar topography (i.e. production cost should be comparable as well, maybe there's a slight advantage due to better climate allowing more extensive wheat and vegetable production) plus a VAT of 20% compared to CH 7.6%. Still, food you can buy in grocery stores is cheaper and of significantly higher quality. And the density of supermarkets and small stores in higher than in CH as well.
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  #95  
Old 22.04.2008, 15:05
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Err, wasn't that my point. 20 million customers a week is relevant in determining your ability to price competitively and is directly linked to your turnover.
Just for the record, ASDA has 8 million customers a week, still bigger than the entire population of CH. It's also owned by Walmart which adds considerable clout.
Waitrose is smaller but is not in the price for quality game. It's only interested in quality and targets the Marks and Spencer crowd.
And none of the above - ASDA/Walmart, Tesco, Waitrose or Sainsburys come to that matter are in the business of supporting small local stores outside the main city centres like the Coop and Migros are. Their power, and cost base, is driven by superstores.

Nev,

thanks for confirming ASDA's customers per week (doesn't indicate return customers etc) but once again. It does not matter a damn what the population of a country has for its supermarkets buying power.

Lesson 1 of economics:

You have two countries, CH of 7m and UK of 70m

People from CH cannot shop in UK and vice versa. Let us, for a second ignore the 0.001% of the populations that shop in France / Austria / Germany.

Prices therefore are not influenced by proximity of each other.

Prices are not influenced by supply and demand as each country has its own sales channels and distribution networks.

Prices are influenced by the following marketing principles:
Market type
Competition
Distribution
who buys the product
who uses the product
product lifecycle
USP
Brand Loyalty
Usage rate
Purchase occasion
Promotions
Accessability
Profitability
Penetration
Price/quality relationship

Without giving everyone the benefit of an MBA in marketing (which I don't have but do understand) the only parts of that list that care about the size of the market are Distribution and as we are now talking about number of stores, Accessability.

Distribution:
Quite simply, that kellogs sells krispies to Tesco's for 20p per 100g or 25p per 100g doesn't matter. the fixed costs (production equipment and distribution locations might take up for first 1p of costs and the variable costs, drivers, fuel etc and further 3p but thereafter there really doesn't matter in an established market (see product lifecycle).

Accessability
A marketing issue, getting the goods to market, but nothing to do with location. If your supply chain is worked out loading 5 boxes of krispies onto a pallet for a van or 50 for a truck makes no difference.

Equality of prices across locations
(I made that up). Has nothing to do with the country, if you are shipping 10,000 boxes of krispies from your french plant to ZH a week or 20,000 it is simply the matter of another truck, fixed costs double but so does revenue. Either way, as a producer, you want the best price for your product in any given country. There is not alternative (e.g. farmers market for krispies) so you screw the retailers as much as possible. This is harder to do when dealing with 2 who have 80% fo the market than 10. It does not matter if it is 7m or 70m. It costs more to deliver to Flums, than Oerlikon from Basel. But not if you are distributing from Sargaans..
Economies of scale vary the price FRANCTIONALLY, even more so [fractionally] for Switzerland because it is so small, if the UK market increases by 10% that's another 200,000 boxes. If CH does the same, thats another 2,000.....
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Old 22.04.2008, 15:13
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

Wrong on so many levels.
dave


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Without giving everyone the benefit of an MBA in marketing (which I don't have but do understand) the only parts of that list that care about the size of the market are Distribution and as we are now talking about number of stores, Accessability.
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  #97  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:17
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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[...]

Lesson 1 of economics:

You have two countries, CH of 7m and UK of 70m

People from CH cannot shop in UK and vice versa. Let us, for a second ignore the 0.001% of the populations that shop in France / Austria / Germany.

Prices therefore are not influenced by proximity of each other.

Prices are not influenced by supply and demand as each country has its own sales channels and distribution networks.

Prices are influenced by the following marketing principles:
Market type
Competition
Distribution
who buys the product
who uses the product
product lifecycle
USP
Brand Loyalty
Usage rate
Purchase occasion
Promotions
Accessability
Profitability
Penetration
Price/quality relationship

Without giving everyone the benefit of an MBA in marketing (which I don't have but do understand) the only parts of that list that care about the size of the market are Distribution and as we are now talking about number of stores, Accessability.

Distribution:
Quite simply, that kellogs sells krispies to Tesco's for 20p per 100g or 25p per 100g doesn't matter. the fixed costs (production equipment and distribution locations might take up for first 1p of costs and the variable costs, drivers, fuel etc and further 3p but thereafter there really doesn't matter in an established market (see product lifecycle).

Accessability
A marketing issue, getting the goods to market, but nothing to do with location. If your supply chain is worked out loading 5 boxes of krispies onto a pallet for a van or 50 for a truck makes no difference.

[...]
Where do you get all this stuff from..?
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  #98  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:23
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

Certainly not from Kohler.

dave

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Where do you get all this stuff from..?
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Old 22.04.2008, 16:30
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Where do you get all this stuff from..?
One of my guys is doing his MBA, I've nicked his course book.

Anyone wanna know something about quantative analysis?
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  #100  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:35
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Where do you get all this stuff from..?
One of my guys is doing his MBA, I've nicked his course book.

Anyone wanna know something about quantative analysis?

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Wrong on so many levels.

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certainly not from kohler
sticks and stones may break my bones but unsubstantiated internet posts will never hurt me... Especially ones that have 5 or less words..
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