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Old 25.01.2015, 16:30
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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In my extensive travels I've come across strange and complicated systems used in far off lands. They call it a "point of sale" system, and amazingly enough the serving staff use it to allocated orders to seats at a table, making a split bill a trivial matter of selecting "split bill" in the amazing system.

I found this amazing, revolutionary system to be quite effective in avoiding conflicts between staff and consumer as the manual arithmetic is entirely avoided and the bill can be split in whichever way anyone sees fit at the simple press of a button, even so far as printing individual bills for each participant!

Perhaps on my next travels to the far off lands I'll try to capture one in the wild and bring it back as a demonstration piece. I'm sure everyone will be amazed.
I don't get that either.

I once was a waitress in many different bars and restaurants and never had a problem splitting the bills for customers. Simple system is too give a mental number to each guest by starting from you left crosswise. Number one has this plus this, etc.
it's not rocket science, really.
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  #22  
Old 25.01.2015, 16:33
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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I don't get that either.

I once was a waitress in many different bars and restaurants and never had a problem splitting the bills for customers. Simple system is too give a mental number to each guest by starting from you left crosswise. Number one has this plus this, etc.
it's not rocket science, really.
Exactly, it's not rocket science, and in the end if you are being paid to serve at a restaurant then an extra 5 minutes helping people leave stress-free, after spending a wad in your restaurant, is hardly going to hurt. It's just one of those customer service basics that some people just don't seem to get, or if they do don't care about (as is often the case in non-competitive Switzerland).
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:38
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

Restaurants in Switzerland are very competitive- As a customer you have a choice which restaurant to go to- especially with a large party. Thinking about the trade around here- restaurateurs know full well that if they do not treat customers well, apart from the quality of the food and wines, etc- customers will go elsewhere. How is that non competitive? A reputation spreads very very quickly, good or bad.
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:45
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Restaurants in Switzerland are very competitive- As a customer you have a choice which restaurant to go to- especially with a large party. Thinking about the trade around here- restaurateurs know full well that if they do not treat customers well, apart from the quality of the food and wines, etc- customers will go elsewhere. How is that non competitive?
Maybe in your area, but Zurich seems to be quite different. I'm often astonished by the poor level of quality and service some Zurich restaurants can get away with and still stay in business, even more considering the sky high prices.
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:46
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Exactly, it's not rocket science, and in the end if you are being paid to serve at a restaurant then an extra 5 minutes helping people leave stress-free, after spending a wad in your restaurant, is hardly going to hurt. It's just one of those customer service basics that some people just don't seem to get, or if they do don't care about (as is often the case in non-competitive Switzerland).
Our last experience end up having to calculate and split the bill according of who ate what and took for ever to get to it. It did spoils the whole dinning experience and we left slightly frustrated instead of the happy atmosphere we had before that bill splitting game.

When you are with a group of people everyone knows, it's great but my experience with groups with "strangers", often, we ended up paying so much more because someone took advantage of the situation and took the most expensive stuff, knowing the bill will be split equally or the person somehow was no where to be found at the end of the evening.
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:46
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

If I mentioned it before ordering, I would expect separate bills.

If I didn't, I wouldn't expect the restaurant to then try and sort it out
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:48
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

Having worked in gastro for a significant period (approx 10 years), I strongly sympathize with the difficulties servers go through to separate bills. As Grumpy pointed out, the one-tab-becomes-separate-tabs scenario is just one. There's also the early-leaver ("Oh, did I forget to pay for that? I'm sorry."), the We're-paying-separately-but-I'm-paying-for-her-beer-and-he's-paying-for-the-appetizer,etc, the musical chairs party, and a few more I've likely forgotten.

Also, as Grumpy points out, real servicepeople do this with professionalism. The guests should never know if there were an inconvenience. There is no reason for it to be otherwise; they're getting paid to do precisely this (although I have heard of a restaurant concept in the US where the servers are expected to behave in rude and outlandish ways).

As long as the entire bill (this is important, as often the server is held responsible if it is not) is paid, it should not matter how it is done.
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:48
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Restaurants in Switzerland are very competitive- As a customer you have a choice which restaurant to go to- especially with a large party. Thinking about the trade around here- restaurateurs know full well that if they do not treat customers well, apart from the quality of the food and wines, etc- customers will go elsewhere. How is that non competitive? A reputation spreads very very quickly, good or bad.
What? How often do you eat out? Sorry Odile, but as usual it sounds likes you are writing stuff without really knowing what you are talking about. Do you even live in Zürich?

Restaurants here don't give a crap, because the ones with a known name in a good location will get business regardless of individual opinions or feedback.

Zürich is not even remotely competitive in that regard.

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Maybe in your area, but Zurich seems to be quite different. I'm often astonished by the poor level of quality and service some Zurich restaurants can get away with and still stay in business, even more considering the sky high prices.
Yup, this is often the case and highlights what I say above.

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Also, as Grumpy points out, real servicepeople do this with professionalism. The guests should never know if there were an inconvenience. There is no reason for it to be otherwise; they're getting paid to do precisely this (although I have heard of a restaurant concept in the US where the servers are expected to behave in rude and outlandish ways).

As long as the entire bill (this is important, as often the server is held responsible if it is not) is paid, it should not matter how it is done.
Well said.
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Old 25.01.2015, 16:50
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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What? How often do you eat out? Sorry Odile, but as usual it sounds likes you are writing stuff without really knowing what you are talking about. Do you even live in Zürich?

Restaurants here don't give a crap, because the ones with a known name in a good location will get business regardless of individual opinions or feedback.

Zürich is not even remotely competitive in that regard.



Well said.
All businesses in Switzerland are hugely protected and uncompetitive, thus the service is almost uniformly poor.
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  #30  
Old 25.01.2015, 16:57
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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if they do don't care about (as is often the case in non-competitive Switzerland).
Of course I do not live in Zurich- but in the rural Jura. I've only been to Zurich once in my life lol. But I was responding to the above post about non-competitive Switzerland- not Zurich, of which as you say, I have no knowledge. Too many people here on EF assume that what happens in Zurich or Geneva is typical of Switzerland as a whole, and it just isn't, in many instances. Just like Paris is not typical of France as a whole, or London of the UK, etc. How much experience have you got of Switzerland outside Zurich, perhaps?

I have lived in Switzerland for 24 years in all- and we do eat out about twice a week- normally 1x in France and 1X in Switzerland. Locals know where the food and service is good- restaurants that don't come up to expectations in one way or another, go to the wall. I've seen many come and go, that is for sure. Very competitive indeed. This applies to Neuchâtel, and other smaller local towns- Lausanne even. Perhaps not in Geneva and Zurich, for all sorts of reasons.

How are restaurant 'protected' farmadoc? Pray tell. Here in border areas, withe the recent upheaval re. CHF- local restaurants on this side of the border will have to be even better re quality and service to survive- as it is extremely easy to go over said border.
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:09
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

In very busy areas the chances to get bad service in restaurants is pretty high. This is true in Switzerland as well as other countries (experienced that in France, London, US).
Never had the situation of refusing to split the bill with a large group and therefore think that the waiter/manager was not professional. With a large group we also tip the waiter because it's an extra pain with all the people changing minds or asking for exceptions.

However everytime I complained about the service and went to discuss it with the manager, they ended-up making a gesture of goodwill (discount, item offered etc...).
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:16
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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In very busy areas the chances to get bad service in restaurants is pretty high. This is true in Switzerland as well as other countries (experienced that in France, London, US).
Never had the situation of refusing to split the bill with a large group and therefore think that the waiter/manager was not professional. With a large group we also tip the waiter because it's an extra pain with all the people changing minds or asking for exceptions.

However everytime I complained about the service and went to discuss it with the manager, they ended-up making a gesture of goodwill (discount, item offered etc...).
That's very true. We've had some really appalling service at restaurants in both the UK and France but mostly in busy areas where the basically couldn't care less whether you go back or not.

We've also only ever had positive experiences when complaining about things here too and we've always given them a 'second chance'.

We're not in Zurich or other large town though.
It's wrong to generalise about a country based on one city be that in Switzerland, England or anywhere else for that matter. It seems that Richdog's gripe is specific to Zurich,

Last edited by Belgianmum; 25.01.2015 at 17:27.
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  #33  
Old 25.01.2015, 17:18
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Of course I do not live in Zurich- but in the rural Jura. I've only been to Zurich once in my life lol. But I was responding to the above post about non-competitive Switzerland- not Zurich, of which as you say, I have no knowledge.

I have lived in Switzerland for 24 years in all- and we do eat out about twice a week- normally 1x in France and 1X in Switzerland. Locals know where the food and service is good- restaurants that don't come up to expectations in one way or another, go to the wall. Very competitive indeed.
Yes... you mean a local restaurant in a relatively sparsely populated are. Not the same as a densely populated (in comparison) city restaurant in a central location that will get a steady flow of customers regardless of how it performs.

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That's very true. We've had some really appalling service at restaurants in both the UK and France but mostly in busy areas where the basically couldn't care less whether you oh back or not.

We've also only ever had positive experiences when complaining about things here too and we've always given them a 'second chance'.

We're not in Zurich or other large town though.
It's wrong to generalise about a country based on one city be that in Switzerland, England or anywhere else for that matter. It seems that Richdog's gripe is specific to Zurich,
Yes, my gripe is, I guess, specific to Züruch as that's the only major city in Switzerland I have a length of experience eating out in.
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:23
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

I use a lot Tripadvisor to select restaurants or bars and so far the experience has been consistent with the reports I've read online. I also in return do give positive or negative rating based on my experience.
I don't know how much influence this is going to have on some of these "black sheeps" in the catering/food service industry.
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:26
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

Thank you Richdog, for narrowing your complaint down to Zurich

BTW, I also regularly organise meals for groups of various nature, and for VIPs visiting the area, as well as eat out regularly as a couple or with friends.
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  #36  
Old 25.01.2015, 17:27
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Thank you Richdog, for narrowing your complaint down to Zurich

BTW, I also regularly organise meals for groups of various nature, and for VIPs visiting the area, as well as eat out regularly as a couple or with friends.
I'm sure it happens in other major cities in Switzerland also... not "just" Zürich. I'd bet good money that Geneva, Basel etc have their instances of it too.
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:30
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

A point no one seems to have mentioned yet: it's not just about 'an extra 5 minutes'. The usual custom here is for each server to carry around a separate purse and make change directly from that, rather than from a central register at the back of the restaurant. (This is also why you sometimes get asked to pay up halfway through the meal, if your server is going off shift and needs to settle up his accounts.)

If you separate bills for a group of 12, it doesn't matter whether you print 12 separate bills, or print a single bill and go around collecting line items from each diner. Either way you're going to have to make change for 12 times as many people that night. Which means you're going to need to carry a much bigger float to do it with: 12 times as many 5Fr, 5Rp, and everything in between.
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:33
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

If the bill is split as Richdog so suggests, which is a sgood a way as any, if there is any discrepancy at then end, how is this sorted out....does the waiter have to take the hit (or profit) or how do you do it ?

If it is a case of everybody paying exactly what they ordered then the way to go without doubt is to ask for seprate bills.

It's rare when i split bills, but the times i have done it, it is usaly bill + tip divieded by N° of particiapants. Sometimes you will pay a little less, sometimes a little more, but in reality it is unlikely to be more than +/-CHf 10.--; one day you pay a little more, next day a little less, it evens out over time !

The exception would be if somebody ordered lobster with caviar and Crystal champagne when everyone else was on pizza & 3dl of local plonk.
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:34
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

And in the meantime, at the next table, is a person, couple, small or larger group, who is furious because they want to pay the bill, and the waiter is stuck at one table with a large group suddenly insisting, without notice, to all pay individually. Surprised no-one on EF has yet come to the complaints corner about this- as it is pretty infuriating when it happens
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Old 25.01.2015, 17:40
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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If the bill is split as Richdog so suggests, which is a sgood a way as any, if there is any discrepancy at then end, how is this sorted out....does the waiter have to take the hit (or profit) or how do you do it ?
That happens on occasion, and is usually very easy to sort out as its usually just a couple of specific things which are easily traced.

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And in the meantime, at the next table, is a person, couple, small or larger group, who is furious because they want to pay the bill, and the waiter is stuck at one table with a large group suddenly insisting, without notice, to all pay individually. Surprised no-one on EF has yet come to the complaints corner about this- as it is pretty infuriating when it happens
That person or couple also likely paid about 5-10x less than my group did, so personally I don't give a chuff if they have to wait an extra 5-10 minutes. There are always other waiters or waitresses to see to the rest of the customers.
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