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  #121  
Old 30.01.2015, 11:04
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Yep, they should also factor in some breakage. Which means it's fine to deliberately throw your glass on the floor!
I think you may not be quite right in the upstairs department.
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  #122  
Old 30.01.2015, 11:46
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Yep, they should also factor in some breakage. Which means it's fine to deliberately throw your glass on the floor!
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So then if I fling my plate and pay by card, should I be subject to a surcharge? And conversely, if I don't smash things and pay cash, do I get a discount?

I think I may enjoy this system.

Does that count as Godwin?
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  #123  
Old 30.01.2015, 11:49
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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yeah. this is then ruined by the 3 people who can only pay by card
That person is often me to be honest. In that instance, one of the card payers pays the entire tab, and gets the money on the table, and the other 2 card payers either go to a cash machine directly after the meal or else agree with card payer that they will pay him back next time they see each other.
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  #124  
Old 30.01.2015, 11:57
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

maybe the restaurants can minimise the problem by having a 5chf per credit card surchage and a 5chf per split surcharge.
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  #125  
Old 30.01.2015, 12:19
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Does that count as Godwin?
How does it have anything to do with Nazis?

Aside from this comment, of course.
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  #126  
Old 30.01.2015, 13:39
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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maybe the restaurants can minimise the problem by having a 5chf per credit card surchage and a 5chf per split surcharge.
That's not a great plan as people wouldn't leave tips or vastly reduced ones then. Only works if that money goes to the wait staff.
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  #127  
Old 30.01.2015, 13:49
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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That's not a great plan as people wouldn't leave tips or vastly reduced ones then. Only works if that money goes to the wait staff.
Do Swiss wait staff really expect a tip? I don't eat out much in Zurich but in the mighty Neuchatel they bring me back my change even if I'm out the door!
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  #128  
Old 30.01.2015, 14:01
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

Surely the biggest bugbear is when the waitress doesn't carry enough change when you pay with a 1000chf not - even when you leave a sizeable tip.
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  #129  
Old 30.01.2015, 14:10
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Do Swiss wait staff really expect a tip? I don't eat out much in Zurich but in the mighty Neuchatel they bring me back my change even if I'm out the door!
I'm more of a rounder-upper than a tipper here I suppose. 62.45 becomes 65 etc, nobody cares if you leave a tip or not really.
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  #130  
Old 30.01.2015, 21:02
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do you think they would split the split surcharge?


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maybe the restaurants can minimise the problem by having a 5chf per credit card surchage and a 5chf per split surcharge.
I had no idea that placing one's sizeable tip in the waitress' hand was such a costly affair.

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Surely the biggest bugbear is when the waitress doesn't carry enough change when you pay with a 1000chf not - even when you leave a sizeable tip.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.02.2015 at 11:46. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #131  
Old 31.01.2015, 18:01
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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How does it have anything to do with Nazis?

Aside from this comment, of course.
Both quotes are nonsensical exaggerations. Just like a Nazi comparison usually is.
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  #132  
Old 31.01.2015, 18:19
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Do Swiss wait staff really expect a tip? I don't eat out much in Zurich but in the mighty Neuchatel they bring me back my change even if I'm out the door!
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I'm more of a rounder-upper than a tipper here I suppose. 62.45 becomes 65 etc, nobody cares if you leave a tip or not really.
I'm also a rounder-upper, and I think many servers expect at least that for a tip. Either that or they just like the easier maths. If I feel the service is particularly good, I'll round up a few Francs instead of Rappen...but TBH that's not often!
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  #133  
Old 01.02.2015, 10:28
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

It has just happened to us in our village. It is very annoying as the club had informed the restaurant beforehand that we wanted separate bills. The food and service were excellent, but the head waiter refused to split the bill for us, 17 people and a bill for Fr 640,-- . He claimed he didn't have enough change: we were all furious.

We spent about 15 minutes sorting it all out, and he didn't get much more than a 00.50 tip in total. The annoying thing was we had enjoyed a set meal, everyone was charged Fr 35,-- so it was only the drinks that needed to be split.

We were all muttering under our breath "Not coming here again" but then we would be inconveniencing ourselves. We think next time we will insist on paying for each item as it arrives at the table. That'll learn 'em!
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  #134  
Old 01.02.2015, 12:02
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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...He claimed he didn't have enough change...
Utter nonsense from that server.

A server deals with dozens of customers in a shift and needs to have enough change to cover all of them. What happens, the last guest at the end of the night gets no change because the server is out of money? No, as each person pays the server gets more cash that can be used as change for the next person. Not everyone will pay with a 100 Franc note, and some will pay with cards (no change required).
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  #135  
Old 01.02.2015, 12:08
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Utter nonsense from that server.

A server deals with dozens of customers in a shift and needs to have enough change to cover all of them. What happens, the last guest at the end of the night gets no change because the server is out of money? No, as each person pays the server gets more cash that can be used as change for the next person. Not everyone will pay with a 100 Franc note, and some will pay with cards (no change required).
Exactly, what if the restaurant would have had 17 individual customers instead?
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  #136  
Old 01.02.2015, 12:36
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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It has just happened to us in our village. It is very annoying as the club had informed the restaurant beforehand that we wanted separate bills. The food and service were excellent, but the head waiter refused to split the bill for us, 17 people and a bill for Fr 640,-- . He claimed he didn't have enough change: we were all furious.

We spent about 15 minutes sorting it all out, and he didn't get much more than a 00.50 tip in total. The annoying thing was we had enjoyed a set meal, everyone was charged Fr 35,-- so it was only the drinks that needed to be split.

We were all muttering under our breath "Not coming here again" but then we would be inconveniencing ourselves. We think next time we will insist on paying for each item as it arrives at the table. That'll learn 'em!
Just say: "Look, we are offering you a method of payment which you are now refusing. We are leaving in 10 minutes, so please feel free to call the police and then explain to them how you refused to accept a perfectly legal and valid method of payment at your restaurant.".

Would love to see how they respond to that.

Last edited by Richdog; 01.02.2015 at 12:50.
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  #137  
Old 01.02.2015, 13:44
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

Whenever I’m part of a larger group in a restaurant, I take along a piece of paper and draw a plan of the table, and stick-drawings of the people, with their most prominent attributes (long hair, glasses, beard, fluffy pullover) and label the sketches by name. I tell everyone that I would like to pay separately, because I typically order far fewer and less expensive items than the others.

When the waiter arrives, I tell her that I have this sketch because I would like us to pay separately, especially since our consumption is likely to vary considerably from one customer to the next. I ask her whether it would be helpful to her if we wrote our orders next to our pictures. Over many, many years, I have never yet known a waiter not to like this system.

Sometimes I keep the paper and pen and jot down each thing someone orders. No item can go missing, because the waiter and I are cooperating in this system. Other waiters prefer to carry the paper backwards and forwards to and from the kitchen all evening, and write on it themselves. Often, when a waiter brings the food, he or she consults the sketch, and calls out: “Here are the two tomato salads, one for you, Melinda, and one for you, Georg.”

Occasionally, someone in our group keeps a menu, and adds up each person’s bill before the waiter returns. But this is not always necessary. The nice, clear thing is that at any point throughout the evening we’ve always got all the items listed per person (also great in case someone leaves early). It is easy, then, for Jenny to say: “Oh, I’ll pay for Marlene's drinks,” because we can just circle them, with an arrow over to Jenny. In any case, it has never seemed to be a problem to fit that sketch-and-list into whatever billing and cash-register system the restaurant uses.

Roll on the day when this becomes the norm, electronically! But until then, this system has prevented many a headache for me, and for many others, not the least of whom are the restaurant staff.

I’d be very interested to hear comments from those in the restaurant business, about this sketch-and-list way of doing things, and whether it could be improved upon, or perhaps has disadvantages, for the staff, of which I hadn’t thought. Thanks.
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  #138  
Old 01.02.2015, 16:29
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Just say: "Look, we are offering you a method of payment which you are now refusing. We are leaving in 10 minutes, so please feel free to call the police and then explain to them how you refused to accept a perfectly legal and valid method of payment at your restaurant.".

Would love to see how they respond to that.
I am wondering the same thing.
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  #139  
Old 01.02.2015, 16:32
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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I’d be very interested to hear comments from those in the restaurant business, about this sketch-and-list way of doing things, and whether it could be improved upon, or perhaps has disadvantages, for the staff, of which I hadn’t thought. Thanks.
You should recommend it here.
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  #140  
Old 01.02.2015, 22:03
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Re: Restaurants insisting you pay the bill as a group...

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Surely restaurants should factor in credit card charges into their pricing?
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Yep, they should also factor in some breakage. Which means it's fine to deliberately throw your glass on the floor!
I'm glad this suggestion went down so well

Forget the analogy, but here's one way to look at the situation with credit cards:

Using a credit card incurs a high transaction cost for the merchant.

If using a credit card incurs a separate and fair charge (or equivalently if there is a cash discount) from the retailer to the consumer, one should feel free to use whatever payment method is most convenient.

If, on the other hand, there is no credit card surcharge, and one is trying to behave considerately, then one will be cognisant of the externality that paying by credit card imposes on the merchant and other customers, and try to avoid doing so except by accident (ie: accidentally finding oneself short of cash).

To state this a bit more generally: where there is opportunity to impose externalities that would be carried by the merchant and the other customers, it is good behaviour not to deliberately take advantage of this.

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Some people will pay cash, some will pay card, and if it doesn't all come out in the wash then adjust your pricing to adequately cover your operating costs.
I predict we'll see less of the "come out in the wash" attitude, and more reflection of the specific payment method in the specific price (probably implemented as cash discounts for psychological reasons), as the Visa / Mastercard duopoly increasingly takes the piss.
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