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  #181  
Old 09.02.2015, 16:16
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Just waiting for a hint that at least somebody of you newbies did get something out of this story.
Yes! The realization that urgent English language lessons are needed across the entire Swiss police.
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  #182  
Old 09.02.2015, 16:49
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Boy, good English also this one.


No wonder you struggle to adapt to the local culture.


However, also in real life there is nothing like a filter button.


Love it or leave it, this applies to both, general life and Switzerland, too.
eeehhhrrrrmmmm.......this isn't real life, you know.
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  #183  
Old 09.02.2015, 17:18
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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eeehhhrrrrmmmm.......this isn't real life, you know.
Which exactly is the value added by this forum.


In real life you have to pay for your errors.
OP can be lucky that it's so little she has to pay for, as she could be a dead woman by now.
EF gives you the chance of learning without paying; that's the difference, indeed.


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Yes! The realization that urgent English language lessons are needed across the entire Swiss police.
... plus the Anglo-Saxon EF community, too.


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Talking about good English, you might like to review the rules for comma placement, innit?
I just put them quite like I would in German. Or is it Italian?
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  #184  
Old 09.02.2015, 17:57
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

I strongly recommend you file a complaint against them.

They have their own perspective, which that they showed you the badge and you didn't let them in, I respect that.

You also have your own perspective which I understand is the way they reacted and demanded access in the first place, which made you feel insecure. You reacted very well by calling the police, maybe if they weren't that aggressive with knocking and shouting, you could have let them in the first place.

Who acted right and who acted wrong, this is why judges and courts exist, and they would tell. Not me, not you, not the police men, not anyone on this forum.

Best of luck
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  #185  
Old 10.02.2015, 01:20
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Which exactly is the value added by this forum.


In real life you have to pay for your errors.
OP can be lucky that it's so little she has to pay for, as she could be a dead woman by now.
EF gives you the chance of learning without paying; that's the difference, indeed.



... plus the Anglo-Saxon EF community, too.



I just put them quite like I would in German. Or is it Italian?

You have come to the "English forum Switzerland" after all. Why?

So I'm not really clear of your motives , why do you feel the need to educate us all in such a rude manner!

I recommend your reconsider your approach, stop trolling the English forum and this OP.

Why not consider starting your own online forum. Calli it the SAELNSIS "Swiss against English language not to be spoken in Switzerland" or what ever strikes your fancy. Then and only then would I consider your contributions worthy of any further engagement...but most likely not!

Last edited by Swissish; 10.02.2015 at 01:58.
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  #186  
Old 10.02.2015, 02:57
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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  #187  
Old 10.02.2015, 18:09
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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[..]
Joga-trn, I'd be interested in any updates you can give as this progresses.

Urs Max, is there a procedural time limit on the state's next move, given that there are apparently pending charges at the moment? By state I just mean police / prosecutor / whoever.
Time limit: I don't know, I'm not that deep into law.

What OP wrote doesn't warrant a charge as she simply exercised her rights - had the police had a search warrant and therefor the right to enter they would have reacted completely different.

The question is, however, if some piece of information is missing. That need not be because OP is intentionally leaving stuff out, she could simply not be aware of it, or it may have gone lost in translation. If not she will be fine, no reason to sweat at all.

The complaint may indeed be an option, but it's probably better to wait filing that, just in case - the "threat" of a complaint may be more useful than having filed one already.
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  #188  
Old 15.08.2015, 00:47
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

I am appealing for help, the prosecutor ruled I have to pay cost of the proceedings CHF 600. I don't have money to pay for that. The charges were dropped but according to the prosecutor I bear responsibility for creating the whole situation by not opening the door to the police who had no warrant to enter.

In addition, the lawyer sent me an invoice for her services provided over an email. I wrote to one lawyer with a question if she can help me in an email, and she replied with a full advice of what the decision letter means, and an invoice!

I never agreed to any payment or fees, how is she able to simply state I own her money for advice if we didn't agree, she simply decided to write a full email assuming I accept the terms rather than first saying 'yes I can help you, but for my advice over email you have to agree to pay'. I am desperate, it is adding CHF 350 on top of other charges, my funds are on minus already, I have to means to cover any charges, can someone help me?
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  #189  
Old 15.08.2015, 01:28
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Dear Joga-trn,

What an awful way to start your life in Switzerland. I really feel for you. It's seems as if you're stumbling from one misadventure into another, caused through bad luck and miscommunication.

Sometimes, you only need to know one person who can help to solve these problems. Because of your financial situation, I would consider asking social services in Geneva for help. Here is there website:

http://www.ville-geneve.ch/administr...ervice-social/

Your situation is becoming urgent and its in the city's interest to keep you from becoming financially disadvantaged simply due to a row of misunderstandings which could easily be solved through goodwill and fairness.

Your story would also be of interest to certain Swiss tabloids but I'm not sure if it's wise to go down that road.

Here's hoping others on this forum can also offer you some sound advice.

Sending some good thoughts and hoping this will all be resolved soon.
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  #190  
Old 15.08.2015, 01:30
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

If you ask nicely, you can probably pay in installments.
But you will have to pay.
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  #191  
Old 15.08.2015, 01:46
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

You were asked in February to update your location: are you living in Geneva, or in a German speaking town? How can we offer advice when we don't know in which town you are living in?

I have a subscription to a Swiss consumer magazine, which includes "over the phone" legal advice. There are free legal advice centres in every town. If you are legally registered here and have a low income and few assets, you can get free, or subsidised, legal representation from a social security fund. Your lawyer will make the claim for you.

I have lived here 25 years, in both German and French speaking cantons, and I must say the treatment I have received from the police has been despicable. I once questioned their level of support for me in a criminal matter, and they threw me out of the police station!

My advice is to visit a genuine local lawyer asap and explain that you need help, but you have no money. He will probably ask for a deposit, so maybe someone can lend you some cash for a year or so until the case has come before a judge, and you have a decision.

Personally I think the police will back down, and cancel the fine, as you did everything correctly, within reasonable expectations.
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  #192  
Old 15.08.2015, 02:30
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Sbrinz
I am back in Zurich and the case is handled by kanton Zurich.

I went down the route you are advising in February: I called the free legal helpline which was supposed to give me free legal advice. The lady who answered the phone was the same lawyer who now issued additional charges without prior agreement for her email response. Back then in February during my call I explained briefly what the case is and she agreed to meet me to assess the case closer and said the initial consultation will be CHF xxx, I agreed only to meet her because the flat's landlady covered that fee.
I met her, told the full story and she provided me with a form to fill in and submit to the police, the form was a request for free legal aid with her details as my preference, should they agree to give me the right to free legal representative. After our meeting I paid her, received receipt and never met her again.

When the decision letter came I wrote to her an email asking if she could help me somehow with the appeal, attaching the decision letter. Her reply was that she can make an appeal for me but needs an advanced payment of CHF 1xxx, and now for the translation service and interpretation of my letter she sends me an invoice which she expects to be settled at the end of this month. I never agreed to any payment, how can she demand it? In her reply, she translated the contents of the letter to me and clarified my position - again I didn't ask for full legal, email advice. My email simply asked if she can help me with the appeal, it was an enquiry.

I lost hope in the free legal helpline. This lawyer was supposed to be that 'genuine local lawyer' on which I relied, but I see now this is not an option as she already doesn't play fair with me.
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  #193  
Old 15.08.2015, 02:59
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Contact the Beobachter. It can't hurt and somehow I have faith in them. Good luck.
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  #194  
Old 15.08.2015, 04:24
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

just pay the bill and forget about it all!

Switzerland is about using the system to make money dont fight the system you will loose.

all that crazy social stuff goes on in spain and other countries like that.




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Sbrinz
I am back in Zurich and the case is handled by kanton Zurich.

I went down the route you are advising in February: I called the free legal helpline which was supposed to give me free legal advice. The lady who answered the phone was the same lawyer who now issued additional charges without prior agreement for her email response. Back then in February during my call I explained briefly what the case is and she agreed to meet me to assess the case closer and said the initial consultation will be CHF xxx, I agreed only to meet her because the flat's landlady covered that fee.
I met her, told the full story and she provided me with a form to fill in and submit to the police, the form was a request for free legal aid with her details as my preference, should they agree to give me the right to free legal representative. After our meeting I paid her, received receipt and never met her again.

When the decision letter came I wrote to her an email asking if she could help me somehow with the appeal, attaching the decision letter. Her reply was that she can make an appeal for me but needs an advanced payment of CHF 1xxx, and now for the translation service and interpretation of my letter she sends me an invoice which she expects to be settled at the end of this month. I never agreed to any payment, how can she demand it? In her reply, she translated the contents of the letter to me and clarified my position - again I didn't ask for full legal, email advice. My email simply asked if she can help me with the appeal, it was an enquiry.

I lost hope in the free legal helpline. This lawyer was supposed to be that 'genuine local lawyer' on which I relied, but I see now this is not an option as she already doesn't play fair with me.
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  #195  
Old 16.08.2015, 14:00
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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just pay the bill and forget about it all!

Switzerland is about using the system to make money dont fight the system you will loose.

all that crazy social stuff goes on in spain and other countries like that.

If I had the money to cover the fine I would do it by now instead of begging for helpful advice on this forum, I want to move on with my life.
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  #196  
Old 16.08.2015, 14:37
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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If I had the money to cover the fine I would do it by now instead of begging for helpful advice on this forum, I want to move on with my life.
There is usually no way around paying bills.
Especially bills from the state.
And you don't have legal protection insurance, so stop thinking about going to the courts. Or to another lawyer.
So, get this from your mind rather sooner than later.

You could try declaring "personal bankruptcy" - but this has far-reaching consequences (which again, you cannot oversee at this point).

Rather than trying to get around paying the money (won't happen), you should rather use the time to work out an installment-plan with the parties that you owe money.
Additional interest will most likely apply, but at least you don't need to pay the lump-sum in one go.

Try contacting Caritas Schuldenberatung http://www.caritas-zuerich.ch/p53000921.html
Don't know if they'll work for free.
But in the end, they'll just do what I suggest: look at your finances, work out an installment-plan, talk to your creditors. Or tell you to talk to them.

Christ - this has all happened in February (or earlier). This could long have been settled in some way or another.

Do you think the state will back down? Do you think the lawyer will back down?
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  #197  
Old 16.08.2015, 14:52
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

A part that - as stated before - I don't think you did everything right,


there's no way one shouldn't get legal help also and especially in a situation a person did screw things up much more than in your case.


I can hardly believe that the Ombudsstelle charged you for some E-Mail advice, plus that one cannot find good legal help for free in a town like Zurich.


Did you check e.g. the addresses like those:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...sauskunft.html


https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...ene_links.html


http://yellow.local.ch/de/q/Z%C3%BCr...tgeltlich.html


http://www.beobachter.ch/justiz-beho...zum-nulltarif/
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Old 16.08.2015, 15:40
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...sauskunft.html
Yes I went there twice, twice turned down because of overcrowding, they already had too many people waiting from the early opening hours.

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...ene_links.html
That one above gives a link to http://www.zav.ch/ which I followed.
This is where I called and met my lawyer who is now requesting extra payment for email advice without prior agreement.

The other links I will have to follow so thanks for your efforts.

My application for free legal aid was turned down by the prosecutor because apparently the case is insignificant.
I think they don't understand that I really am unable to cover costs of lawyers or fees.

Apparently the law says that everyone has the right to free legal aid, when accused by the state, if he/she is unable to pay for own defence lawyer. I think someone up there is being negligent as to how my rights should be treated, I can't just give in.
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Old 16.08.2015, 15:58
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Apparently the law says that everyone has the right to free legal aid, when accused by the state, if he/she is unable to pay for own defence lawyer. I think someone up there is being negligent as to how my rights should be treated, I can't just give in.
To gain the free legal aid, you probably have to declare personal bankruptcy.
It's usually not enough to say "I don't have the money".

I know it doesn't sound "right" and it's easy to say "pay up" for someone who is in better financial circumstances than you obviously are.
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Old 16.08.2015, 16:10
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...sauskunft.html
Yes I went there twice, twice turned down because of overcrowding, they already had too many people waiting from the early opening hours.

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...ene_links.html
That one above gives a link to http://www.zav.ch/ which I followed.
This is where I called and met my lawyer who is now requesting extra payment for email advice without prior agreement.

The other links I will have to follow so thanks for your efforts.

My application for free legal aid was turned down by the prosecutor because apparently the case is insignificant.
I think they don't understand that I really am unable to cover costs of lawyers or fees.
Go to the free legal advice place again (did you go to the one on Hottingerstrasse?) and be there extra early (1hr before opening if need be) to make sure you can grab a number ticket (they have a ticket system and only have a fixed small number of tickets with numbers on and if you can't manage to get one you don't get advice).


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Apparently the law says that everyone has the right to free legal aid, when accused by the state, if he/she is unable to pay for own defence lawyer. I think someone up there is being negligent as to how my rights should be treated, I can't just give in.
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To gain the free legal aid, you probably have to declare personal bankruptcy.
It's usually not enough to say "I don't have the money".

I know it doesn't sound "right" and it's easy to say "pay up" for someone who is in better financial circumstances than you obviously are.
OP: You can call any lawyer on the ZAV list (linked by another EFer) and the first thing you tell them when they answer is that you will not be able to pay for the advice, add that you will of course provide ample proof of said lack of funds, and ask kindly if they're willing to work on a sliding scale or if they'll let you pay in small installments. That way you should know from the get-go if they will charge and possibly how much and when - before asking your question.
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