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  #21  
Old 04.02.2015, 22:12
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Again, they are wrong. You tried to speak to them. You were de-escalating the situation and they were escalating it.
...
No, not at all. OP is unwilling or unable to speak the local language, so she is consciously running the risk of being continuously misunderstood, not understanding herself a thing (or quite).
That's the destiny of foreigners that are too attracted by the allmighty frank, sorry.
This won't change unless expats don't change their mind.


Having said this, I don't think this is a police state. So a lawyer's advice might be of help.
Don't know how the situation is in case of Gefahr and stuff like that. Image how stupid if the police tried to evacuate the building because of a problem (gas or whatever), and frightened stupid tenants refuse to open their doors because they are foreigners or females or what other strange excuses they have.


The minor problem is the law. What is missing here is language. Which can - in some circumstances - mean life.
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  #22  
Old 04.02.2015, 22:14
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Yeah, but you're a geezer (who's been here some time) ...... I get the impression that the OP is a girlie, and is fresh off the boat.
That is exactly right, I am a girlie and I am fresh off the boat. I have no problems integrating with people here, in fact the same day of the accident I went and met some swiss people in my profession, asked them questions, exchanged ideas. Everyone I met so far here was fantastic and I have no fear of communicating with people. On the other hand an unexpected and intrusive visit from two healthy built men demanding access to my apartment did make me loose my trust!
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  #23  
Old 04.02.2015, 22:16
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

I very rarely hear stories of bad guys posing as police-officers in Switzerland.
That may be because of "selective reporting" by the press - but ISTR that the police takes those cases _very_ seriously and the people who get caught employing this scheme usually get absolutely no leniency from the justice system.
As such, the criminals know it's the easiest way to draw the attention of the whole police-department on them and a common burglary will most certainly not take place like this.
OTOH, if I were part of a witness-protection program, involved in organized / gang-crime (most crime these days is), associated with human-rights, internet/freedom/hacktivism movement and/or under threat from the foreign-intelligence community, then I'd think twice about opening the door under the conditions reported...
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  #24  
Old 04.02.2015, 22:41
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Don't know how the situation is in case of Gefahr and stuff like that. Image how stupid if the police tried to evacuate the building because of a problem (gas or whatever), and frightened stupid tenants refuse to open their doors because they are foreigners or females or what other strange excuses they have.


The minor problem is the law. What is missing here is language. Which can - in some circumstances - mean life.
If this is the case, the people showing at her door would wear a police or a firefighter uniform.
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Old 04.02.2015, 22:44
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Were you on all three calls at once, or one after another? Could your host/landlady and your partner hear the other calls?


What did your host/landlady advise you, right then, when she was on the phone with you? What did your partner witness (hear or see, online)? Could your host/landlady and/or your partner perhaps phone or go to the Police, or write to them, explaining that you and she/he were talking when they banged on the door, what she/he heard, and what she/he told you to do, etc.?



That part sounds good. If I were you, I would try to find out who the uniformed Police in the patrol car were, and ask them for their help, again, in sorting this matter out. You could also argue that the 117 desk obviously thought your call for help was justified.
Yes, my partner heard everything that happened, I talked with him via laptop. He says he heard me asking them for clarification 'What is it regarding, why are you here, can you explain why you wan't to enter?' and he also heard banging on the door - so pretty much everything. Including my talk with landlady and the police.

My landlady was on the phone but then I had to hang-up on her in order to call the police. My landlady also heard parts of my attempt at asking the police in both English and German what is the reason they want to come in.


My landlady and her family are very helpful, they tried to speak with the police, all 3 of them contacted police and explained, but this policeman will not drop charges. I will ask her to write down what she heard on the phone and send it, but to whom? At this stage the case is on it's way to the prosecutor.

One thing I need to clarify is that the policeman did speak English and there was no room for miscommunication, they understood me and could express themselves in English.
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Old 04.02.2015, 22:48
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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If this is the case, the people showing at her door would wear a police or a firefighter uniform.
Yeah, of course. Next time officers in charge, duty, spare time or criminality prosecutors before alerting you for a hole in your gas pipes first turn to their offices to put on their uniforms, maybe even those from your home country, in case, so that every last idiot could recognize them ...
Sure.


And OP's answer to somebody yelling at her "Attention, car passing on your left!" would be 'Ich verstehen nicht't, sprichst du English?'

Good strategy, really.

Most probably your last one in this life, then.


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One thing I need to clarify is that the policeman did speak English and there was no room for miscommunication, they understood me and could express themselves in English.
Do you realize you are living in Switzerland?
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  #27  
Old 04.02.2015, 22:54
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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If this is the case, the people showing at her door would wear a police or a firefighter uniform.
No, why would they?

Several friends of mine are ZH Kripos, they generally look worse than I do.

A uniform means nothing.

Tom
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Old 04.02.2015, 22:55
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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...Do you realize you are living in Switzerland?
Do you realize OP is newly arrived here? And female? And by herself? She's said she's willing to learn, and she tried some German with the cops. Not everyone who comes here speaks German, French or Italian on day 1. Cops pressing charges for this is way over the top. Pure arrogance. Hopefully the prosecutor has some brains and declines to take it forward.

ETA - Plain-clothes officers need to understand that showing up at night and banging on people's doors might set the occupant on edge. I know the idea is probably to catch people by surprise, but then you can't press charges when they're...surprised and react defensively.
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  #29  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:00
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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One thing I need to clarify is that the policeman did speak English and there was no room for miscommunication, they understood me and could express themselves in English.
It doesn't matter.

English is NOT an official language here, i.e. it doesn't matter.

Only what is said in GERMAN (or other local language) matters.

Tom
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  #30  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:01
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Do you realize OP is newly arrived here? And female? And by herself? She's said she's willing to learn, and she tried some German with the cops.
...
Apart that I have no understanding for those people (even if I go on a holiday somewhere I learn at least a bit of the respective language and don't expect others to cope with my small-minded standards, adopting to my language),


she did not.


She asked them to switch to English,


instead of asking them to speak slowly or to show her a document, e.g.
Which means she has no clue how to do this in German.


Sorry for the harsh words. For me it's very difficult to enter in such a way of thinking.




N.B. no real problem in this case. No harm done, if OP did understand it right, no real danger from any parts. But next time it could be different. I think there could be a lesson learnt here, if there is sth to be learnt. But again, it's not about law.
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  #31  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:02
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No, not at all. OP is unwilling or unable to speak the local language, so she is consciously running the risk of being continuously misunderstood, not understanding herself a thing (or quite).
That's the destiny of foreigners that are too attracted by the allmighty frank, sorry.
This won't change unless expats don't change their mind.


Having said this, I don't think this is a police state. So a lawyer's advice might be of help.
Don't know how the situation is in case of Gefahr and stuff like that. Image how stupid if the police tried to evacuate the building because of a problem (gas or whatever), and frightened stupid tenants refuse to open their doors because they are foreigners or females or what other strange excuses they have.


The minor problem is the law. What is missing here is language. Which can - in some circumstances - mean life.

One thing I need to clarify is that the policeman did speak English and there was no room for miscommunication, they understood me and could express themselves in English. I also asked in German why are the there (the landlady gave me a hint how to say it, she was on the phone when I spoke with them), and I can only remember they replied back in German and then in English that 'you have to open the door, we can't tell you anything, we will explain when you open the door'.

If there would be a danger they would say 'we are evacuating the building', which I would understand, please don't assume everyone is a stupid, frightened goat. There was a valid reason I had doubts about them. I had balcony door open and in case of evacuation or other emergency I would see and hear that outside as my windows are directly above the entrance door.

For your information, I am not just another expat unwilling to learn. The work I came here to do is English based. I don't need German for anything other than social interactions, but that takes time to achieve! I am already bilingual and taking another language on board comes with practice! One week was not enough to teach me how to interact with police in German

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Apart that I have no understanding for those people (even if I go on a holiday somewhere I learn at least a bit of the respective language and don't expect others to cope with my small-minded standards, adopting to my language),


she did not.


She asked them to switch to English,


instead of asking them to speak slowly or to show her a document, e.g.
Which means she has no clue how to do this in German.


Sorry for the harsh words. For me it's very difficult to enter in such a way of thinking.




N.B. no real problem in this case. No harm done, if OP did understand it right, no real danger from any parts. But next time it could be different. I think there could be a lesson learnt here, if there is sth to be learnt. But again, it's not about law.

Please refer to my later comment, they could speak English, very clear. When I opened the door the offensive policeman fired up at me, 'why didn't you open the door?! And why did you open the door now?! I could be still a criminal, huh?', the uniformed policeman were standing behind him so I tried to explain that now I feel safe, but this was ignored and they all entered into the flat.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.02.2015 at 23:22. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #32  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:11
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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If there would be a danger they would say 'we are evacuating the building', which I would understand, please don't assume everyone is a stupid, frightened goat.
...
Not stupid, but ignorant.
Even your sentence asking them to speak English was wrong. Please, you are not even able to ask somebody in German - N.B. the language of your region - to speak English? ...


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For your information, I am not just another expat unwilling to learn. The work I came here to do is English based. I don't need German for anything other than social interactions, but that takes time to achieve! I am already bilingual and taking another language on board comes with practice! One week was not enough to teach me how to interact with police in German
Normal persons in Europe speak more than 2 languages fluently. If I intend to settle somewhere, I do learn the language before doing this or I stay at home. Of course sometimes some things are diffcult to predict and to plan, but this should be an exception. As I said, even if one is on a holiday in a foreign country, one understands the word "Police" in that language, believe me.
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  #33  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:20
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Not stupid, but ignorant.
Even your sentence asking them to speak English was wrong. Please, you are not even able to ask somebody in German - N.B. the language of your region - to speak English? ...



Normal persons in Europe speak more than 2 languages fluently. If I intend to settle somewhere, I do learn the language before doing this or I stay at home. Of course sometimes some things are diffcult to predict and to plan, but this should be an exception. As I said, even if one is on a holiday in a foreign country, one understands the word "Police" in that language, believe me.
Hello again
I think you don't understand the problem. It seemed like a fraud of two people trying to convince me they are a police. Not a problem of communication.

I see you are trying to express your anger because you simply don't like people who can't yet speak German, you take it personal.
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  #34  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:21
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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It doesn't matter.

English is NOT an official language here, i.e. it doesn't matter.

Only what is said in GERMAN (or other local language) matters.
And that's an important point, given that OP has now signed a document in German about what happened...it could well be interpreted by a prosecutor as admitting "guilt" to what the officers are claiming.

I agree the language is important, and I get why OP was freaked out. I just think that pressing charges is over-the-top, especially as she did eventually let them in, which meant they could do their job. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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  #35  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:26
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I just think that pressing charges is over-the-top, especially as she did eventually let them in, which meant they could do their job. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I think this, too. However nobody knows what really happened, what the non-uniformed policemen were there for.


And it's strange that OP does not see the point, besides any legal aspects.


Of course it might happen that somebody for this and the other reason doesn't understand what certain people want from them, not only linked to language and/or culture (N.B. it's not very likely to be robbed or raped in Switzerland by people with a police document, of course this might be different in other parts of the world, no idea).


But risking it consciously every day in their (new) life in the (new) place they are living in, ...


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I see you are trying to express your anger because you simply don't like people who can't yet speak German, you take it personal.
Actually I don't care. Just that I don't understand the mentality behind and why, if you dare to run the risk not to speak the language, you are complaining about? Shit like this can easily happen to you quite every day, and you can only hope it won't be worse.
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  #36  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:28
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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And that's an important point, given that OP has now signed a document in German about what happened...it could well be interpreted by a prosecutor as admitting "guilt" to what the officers are claiming.
Indeed.

It's like on the web pages that state that it's for informational purposes only.

The local (or other Swiss) language counts, English has no legal standing here.

Tom
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  #37  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:33
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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And that's an important point, given that OP has now signed a document in German about what happened...it could well be interpreted by a prosecutor as admitting "guilt" to what the officers are claiming.

I agree the language is important, and I get why OP was freaked out. I just think that pressing charges is over-the-top, especially as she did eventually let them in, which meant they could do their job. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The document was translated to me by an appointed translator. There was a question referring clearly to whether I admit to the charges and the statement was 'Nein'. I have given my fair and elaborate explanation in the statement, no doubts about that.
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  #38  
Old 04.02.2015, 23:41
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Not stupid, but ignorant.
Even your sentence asking them to speak English was wrong. Please, you are not even able to ask somebody in German - N.B. the language of your region - to speak English? ...


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Hello
I recently refused to open my apartment door to two dark dressed men who began ringing and then banging with fists at my door. I was alone in the house and it frightened me considerably that someone would bang on the door and then even pull on the handle to get in, thank god I locked it from the inside.

After this fierceful banging happened twice I rushed to the door and asked who's there, they replied in German which I didn't understand and said what German I could 'Ich verstehen nicht't, sprichst du English?' they replied in German again, I repeated the same several times and only then I heard 'We are the police, open the door'. I looked through the peek hole and saw two normal civilian men, one with long beard, dodgy looking, holding a police batch. I asked what they wanted, but they refused to give me the reason, so I was afraid to open, thinking this is a hoax, they might be burglars or criminals. After all, I didn't know the neighbourhood, I only arrived here one week ago.

In summary, the aggressive behaviour of these two men and refusal to give me any sort of explanation as to why I should open the door, altered me to the highest possible level and my body went into a fight-or-flight mode. I began shaking and thought of all possible scenarios, including the worst. I called the landlady of my flat, and her advice was not to open the door until they clarify why they are there. I also called the 117 and informed the police that two people claim to be police officers but they don't have uniforms, there is no police car (which I checked through my window) and they try to desperately break into my apartment, and threaten me they will force the door open and I will have to pay for the damages. In result a police patrol was send immediately over to my flat.

When the uniformed police arrived, only then I was feeling the threat was gone, and I could open the door. The end of the story is that these two men were real police officers. One of them pressed charges against me and I was interrogated by himself the following morning. When coming to the police station I was expecting to hear an explanation, what happened, and maybe apology, because I was clearly in a shaky state, nearly crying when the situation happened, nothing was my fault.

The end result is that police was looking for a tenant who was previously registered at the apartment, I don't know who it was. Were they rightful to press these charges against me, the charge was that I prevented this crime police perform their duties.

What are your opinions?
Oh FFS, she's been here a week!!!!!
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Old 04.02.2015, 23:55
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Oh FFS, she's been here a week!!!!!
Police knock, you open.

Simple, no?

Tom
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Old 04.02.2015, 23:58
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Police knock, you open.

Simple, no?

Tom
No. It was a ring bell, banging and pulling on the handle.
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