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  #61  
Old 05.02.2015, 02:57
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I call BS on your statement here. You would really feel competent to talk to police in any language and country the world over, as a tourist? What a joke. Do you expect tourists to CH to learn enough of each of the four official languages to be conversational, before touring the country?
...
I was talking about some very basic vocabulary, that could in case save one's life. The word "Police" might be included in that kind of list, imho. And it was that word - among other basic stuff - which OP did not understand. Can one imagine that?

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I ask you, are you conversational in these four languages, even as a resident ?
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Yes, I am.
I might struggle in Romansh. But I would ask them to speak slowly and answer them in Ticinese or pseudo Ticinese. ;-)

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Furthermore, they likely began speaking to the Op in Swiss German, which has countless dialects and no rules. Should she have learned each dialect in the week that she's been here?
...
Completely untrue, from a linguistic point of view. Part of the Heidi Myth. If you are interested in the argument, have a look on this guy's bibliography.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Ammon


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You are the one who is being small minded.
It's not me to decide who shall join Switzerland and who would better stay at home. But if I go somewhere and expect everybody to adopt, I might have a slight problem. And the girl has. Hers, not mine ... It's never too late. But if until now I was unable or unwilling to do the homework, OK; yes, of course there are reasons for not getting them done; but then please don't complain. At least not about your incomprehension and general misunderstanding.
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  #62  
Old 05.02.2015, 04:14
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

So Bucentaure, do you think the police acted correctly, within Swiss law? A yes or no will do.
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  #63  
Old 05.02.2015, 05:56
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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She did nothing wrong, the police did, she made a statement that clears her of any so called guilt... Bloody God,,, people!!
Then the prosecutor won't have a case........ The statement will almost certainly be an admission of something.........
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Old 05.02.2015, 06:14
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Did I miss it or Why isn 't this story in the newspapers yet? Genuine question.
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  #65  
Old 05.02.2015, 06:51
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Then the prosecutor won't have a case........ The statement will almost certainly be an admission of something.........
I don't know but that would be contrary to my experience with Swiss police. I found them overly aggressive, rude at times and frankly annoying - but at the same time rather reliable in the sense that they would not try to set you up and frame you. Obviously is the OP from their perspective annoying - she delayed their work and caused them extra trouble - the two guys will have to explain why somebody calls the emergency service after they showed up at a door. But I do not think they will make up fake confessions.

That would be the exact point at which I'd go all out at them instead - behaving stupidly is one thing, bending laws in your favour another. One persons "I knocked at the door" is another persons "he nearly trashed the door", but faking documents is something that hardly happens in Switzerland.
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  #66  
Old 05.02.2015, 09:19
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I looked through the peek hole and saw two normal civilian men, one with long beard, dodgy looking, holding a police batch.
From a legal perspective, it is at this point you were indeed perverting police work. The police have to identify themselves, which they clearly did. You didn't open the door.. so.. yes. I'm sure in your statement you admitted that fact. Which is understandable.

Now it's up to the prosecution services as to whether or not to pursue the charge or to slap your wrist. If the latter, the judge has to agree.

There's no fancy court appearance so all rather dull in an office. My advice is to get a lawyer.
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Old 05.02.2015, 09:39
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Lets flip this round for a second, and look at it from the Police's perspective.

They have information to believe that a suspect is residing at an address.
On arrival they knock (albeit loudly and aggressively) on the door
They identify themselves
They are prevented from entry

In such a situation they would become quite agitated and try to gain entry. They have no evidence that the OP is not involved with the suspect and may be harbouring them or assisting with their getaway.

I remember talking to a police office many years ago about this same topic, and he said: When you enter an address you have to assume everyone is guilty and you have to appear "strong". If you knock politely and wait to be invited in the suspect will be gone.

He finished off by saying: There is a good reason we knock on doors at 3 or 4am - they're always in!!

I'd rather have a police force that is firmer to one that is softer.

(Awaits groaning from the Guardian readers )

EDIT:
Has there not yet been a post on the number of staircases in Swiss police stations? Or the number of doors? Or the number of heavy objects precariously balanced? Or the number of raised thresholds?
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Old 05.02.2015, 09:39
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

I wouldn't have opened the door either if they were banging on it, trying the handle ans shouting. Calling the police to verify that they were genuine was a good thing to do in my opinion.

As for the language issue, I can speak fluent French and passable German but know from experience that in a stressful situation it all just flies out of the window and I find it hard to string two words together.
It's very easy for people to say that the OP should have learned more German before she came here but when it comes to real life stressful situations it doesn't always make much difference.
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  #69  
Old 05.02.2015, 09:44
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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As for the language issue, I can speak fluent French and passable German
In my experience does this set you apart from pretty much the entire Stadtpolizei ZH.
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:06
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I don't know but that would be contrary to my experience with Swiss police. I found them overly aggressive, rude at times and frankly annoying - but at the same time rather reliable in the sense that they would not try to set you up and frame you. Obviously is the OP from their perspective annoying - she delayed their work and caused them extra trouble - the two guys will have to explain why somebody calls the emergency service after they showed up at a door. But I do not think they will make up fake confessions.

That would be the exact point at which I'd go all out at them instead - behaving stupidly is one thing, bending laws in your favour another. One persons "I knocked at the door" is another persons "he nearly trashed the door", but faking documents is something that hardly happens in Switzerland.
No need for fake confessions, if the OP confirms the police claimed they were police & refused to open the door, they have indeed admitted & confessed to an offence.
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:12
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

You've cherry picked my post and avoided the main point, but:
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I was talking about some very basic vocabulary, that could in case save one's life. The word "Police" might be included in that kind of list, imho. And it was that word - among other basic stuff - which OP did not understand. Can one imagine that?
She never claimed not to understand 'polizei'. You've invented that...

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Yes, I am.
I might struggle in Romansh. But I would ask them to speak slowly and answer them in Ticinese or pseudo Ticinese. ;-)
I commend you on your language abilities. However, you are part of a small minority of Swiss citizens/residents. Does that make the majority small minded - those who don't speak all four languages?

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Completely untrue, from a linguistic point of view. Part of the Heidi Myth. If you are interested in the argument, have a look on this guy's bibliography.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Ammon
BS. Nothing to do with Heidi.
Also from wiki:Linguistically, Swiss German forms no unity.


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It's not me to decide who shall join Switzerland and who would better stay at home. But if I go somewhere and expect everybody to adopt, I might have a slight problem. And the girl has. Hers, not mine ... It's never too late. But if until now I was unable or unwilling to do the homework, OK; yes, of course there are reasons for not getting them done; but then please don't complain. At least not about your incomprehension and general misunderstanding.
The OP's only 'complaint' is about being charged with an offense. She hasn't claimed that Swiss police should speak English - only that she did not trust if they were actually police to begin with. You seem to be missing the point, and just looking for a way to portray her as an ignorant üslander.

Good luck, OP. I hope they drop the charges.

and welcome to Switzerland...
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  #72  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:13
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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No need for fake confessions, if the OP confirms the police claimed they were police & refused to open the door, they have indeed admitted & confessed to an offence.
I very much disagree. In Switzerland can cops just enter your apartment with either a warrant or an emergency say a dangerous criminal is on the lose, has been spotted in the building and the cops have very concrete urgent need to get in.

Two guys showing up without an immediate situation at hand or a warrant clearly do not meet the rather high barrier the Swiss parliament set up to protect your privacy in your apartment.
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  #73  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:17
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I was told to come to the police station and I will be given an explanation of what happened. I obiedently went in anticipation of first, an explanation and second, to ask them if the person they were looking for is dangerous and if I am safe by staying in this apartment. The reply I heard was: we were looking for someone else, not you, but I can't say anything about this person, but most likely you are not under threat.

During the interrogation there was a translator, who translated his German into English. Everything I sad during that interrogation was in English, this then translated to German and written down by the interrogator. I made a full statement which was then read out loud by the translator to me, and I agreed with that and signed. I didn't admit I took blame for anything. I explained that I was acting in self-defence. I called the police for some intervention, shouldn't that make an intelligent person understand I really felt threatened?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
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  #74  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:25
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I very much disagree. In Switzerland can cops just enter your apartment with either a warrant or an emergency say a dangerous criminal is on the lose, has been spotted in the building and the cops have very concrete urgent need to get in.

Two guys showing up without an immediate situation at hand or a warrant clearly do not meet the rather high barrier the Swiss parliament set up to protect your privacy in your apartment.
That will clearly be a matter for the judge to decide, which is why courts exist.

Talking to the Police is always to help them........ there is no requirement to help them or say anything, you can always put your side of the story AFTER you know what the police have said, or indeed say nothing. Letting the Police prove their case un aided would have been a better strategy IMHO.
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:31
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Jeeeze all this debate ..

The prosecutor, if it goes that far will throw any case against the OP out.
The OP did the right thing at the time by calling the "known" police. The "unknown" police now know after the arrival of the "known" police that the OP was not throwing evidence down the toilet, she was actually calling the "known" police.

The "unknown" police were likely rather annoyed that the OP was calling people and doing Facetimes while they were seeking entry, but they'll get over it.

Language doesn't matter, if there's a stranger at your door and you don't feel safe, call the "known" police, even if the stranger's ID card says he's the pope. But probably don't screw around on Facetime.

All decided, you're welcome.
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  #76  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:39
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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The document was translated to me by an appointed translator. There was a question referring clearly to whether I admit to the charges and the statement was 'Nein'. I have given my fair and elaborate explanation in the statement, no doubts about that.
Sorry to be pedantic, but you do not have to sign anything. In view of the situation I think no evil will come of it, but one should take care. I was once involved in a minor incident in a foreign country in which I barely knew the basics of the language. They offered me a translator but before signing I asked to see the original document and there were a couple of sentences there that looked suspicious to me. Probably they were innocent and there are plenty of "faux amis" that can lead one to misunderstand and imagine the worst, but I said I wouldn't sign because I didn't understand and they took that down and said fair enough and let me walk. I never heard from them again.
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:45
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Also wouldn't it be Sprechen Sie Engels? Isn't sprichst du English not only wrong but impolite?
Engels is Dutch, or Afrikaans, or also one of Karl Marx's chums.
Englisch is the word you're looking for
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:54
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

This brings a whole new meaning to being switzerlanded......

But on a serious note I would expect my wife or daughter to act in exactly the same way as the OP seems to have. More to the point it is what the police in the UK would advise you to do.

OP I sincerely hope that this is all resolved as quickly as possible for you.
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:56
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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He finished off by saying: There is a good reason we knock on doors at 3 or 4am - they're always in!!
This can be taken to extremes.

they came into my building once at about 3 am, came with about five vans and about 12 men in riot gear and guns, woke the entire building and took away a sleepy looking guy. The guy was back home the next day, so whatever he'd done wrong, it can't have been that bad. I never found out what he was wanted for but as a taxpayer I do get the impression a lot of money and energy is being wasted in futile rambo actions.
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Old 05.02.2015, 11:00
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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but as a taxpayer I do get the impression a lot of money and energy is being wasted in futile rambo actions.
Can't we just agree they waste more money, time and energy on catching speeding drivers?

I have yet to meet a non-uniformed Swiss* police officer who hasn't identified himself before doing anything else. And in general they do dress like any other person of their age.


*An officer of a Swiss police force not necessarily a Swiss police officer!
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