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  #161  
Old 07.02.2015, 08:58
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Dack Rambo No, of course I wasn't arrested, there was no grounds for arrest! I was sitting in my own home, suspicion wasn't on me to start with. I am also told the person they were after was not a criminal either, it turns out it was the ex-partner of my landlady, but I am told he was a decent person, no known reason exists as to why he has been searched for. As I said, police didn't tell me anything, just made accusations against me.
But you said they pressed charges against you! Obviously they had grounds for something, unless of course they saw the error and dropped the charges.
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  #162  
Old 07.02.2015, 11:50
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Swissish I don't understand your logic. Being accused of an act does not give the police an automatic right for arrest, if there is no evidence. The charge itself was in the character of 'she didn't cooperate with the police willingly'.

But please read with understanding: I had no idea why a police would want to enter the apartment, so I had feared it was not a real police.

You said 'Obviously they had grounds for something' - they thought I willingly did not open the door to the police. They say they identified themselves sufficiently, in my view, during the situation, it was not sufficient.

[edited for content]

Remember that law is on my side, they had no right to enter the apartment, nor threaten me they will force the door open.


Last edited by 3Wishes; 07.02.2015 at 11:54. Reason: private message content is to remain private, thanks.
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  #163  
Old 07.02.2015, 12:04
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Did they drop the charge, I hope?
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  #164  
Old 07.02.2015, 12:21
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Did they drop the charge, I hope?

Still awaiting any information. I'll post the outcome in the following weeks.

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  #165  
Old 07.02.2015, 19:07
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Swissish I don't understand your logic. Being accused of an act does not give the police an automatic right for arrest, if there is no evidence. The charge itself was in the character of 'she didn't cooperate with the police willingly'.

But please read with understanding: I had no idea why a police would want to enter the apartment, so I had feared it was not a real police.

You said 'Obviously they had grounds for something' - they thought I willingly did not open the door to the police. They say they identified themselves sufficiently, in my view, during the situation, it was not sufficient.

[edited for content]

Remember that law is on my side, they had no right to enter the apartment, nor threaten me they will force the door open.

Oh dear, sorry, I should have expressed myself differently, I am on your side with this! I just got confused between the terms being used. Of course the police don't arrest everyone that they lay charges against. But as you said they did lay charges in this case and that's not something that can be just be forgotten about.

Don't you think it would look rather silly of them in the news around the world. "Swiss police charge woman for refusing to open her door to intruders" These things have a way of going viral...

I hope for your sake they do drop the charges.
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  #166  
Old 08.02.2015, 18:10
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Do you have a link? Are you sure you can be compelled to make a statement, that statement may well be used against you at a later time...... just because you were not cautioned does non mean it can't be used against you.

Edit, I don't believe you can ever be compelled to sign anything against your free will .
Where did I say you can be compelled to sign anything? I didn't say a statement must be made immediately let alone without contacting a lawyer.

The right to not incriminate yourself applies whether you're accused or witness (I hadn't thought of the latter when I wrote the post above). But you still have to show up when summoned and make your statement, which in such a case would be that you refuse to say more because you could incriminate yourself.

As for Beugehaft, your search abilities are as good as mine. In fact, the reason I mentioned the german expression is to simplify additional digging by the interested reader. Add "schweiz" or "switzerland" to the search term and you'll immediately find what you're looking for.
http://www.lexfind.ch/ see Strafprozessordnung, Articles 168-176
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  #167  
Old 08.02.2015, 19:59
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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...
Don't you think it would look rather silly of them in the news around the world. "Swiss authorities charge Polish woman for refusing to open sublet airbnb to the Police" These things have a way of going viral...
...
Ftfy.
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  #168  
Old 09.02.2015, 00:21
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Ftfy.

In case you missed it, a proper host might consider forwarding this post to other newcomers.

Newcomer's Guide to Switzerland
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  #169  
Old 09.02.2015, 00:54
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Problem is, and you missed it, dear,
that they wouldn't even lie.


The girl can be lucky nothing worse came out of that story, besides that ridiculous charge;


the shame is she is not sportive enough to consider it a payback of whom is unwilling or unable to speak the language and to adapt to the new country.


Most of the foreigners don't like their new home being called "guest country"; and I can understand that, yes, as the concept of being a guest means it's not their home or they would depend somehow on who is organizing the party or the holiday.

I do also understand that a person might have personal or even institutional reasons for having no clue on a local culture and/or also easy conversation skills of the new home;


but I expect a fair sense of realism i.e. that in case one has to pay a price for this attitude.
In the above case the girl was lucky, as it seems she will get away with it. Plus, much more important, nobody got hurt.


In other circumstances she and others who think it's normal that others have to adapt to their culture, might not. Let's face it, in other countries outside Western Europe she might have a bullet in her head now, as considered maybe an armed partner in crime hiding behind the door, or something like that. Good strategy, really.


It's up to you, you have the choice.


Btw., for those few who understand:
http://www.msn.com/de-ch/nachrichten...=mailsignoutmd

There's a link between clueless foreigners and missing acceptance among the Swiss.

N.B. I'm an SP, not SVP voter.
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  #170  
Old 09.02.2015, 01:54
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Problem is, and you missed it, dear,
that they wouldn't even lie.
Dear? You really are an asshole...
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The girl can be lucky nothing worse came out of that story, besides that ridiculous charge;
She's a woman. Don't try to portray her in a diminutive way.
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the shame is she is not sportive enough to consider it a payback of whom is unwilling or unable to speak the language and to adapt to the new country.
I don't quite understand your English here - but she had only been here for a week.

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blah blah blah...
but I expect a fair sense of realism i.e. that in case one has to pay a price for this attitude.
Who has an attitude? This is all in your head.

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In the above case the girl was lucky, as it seems she will get away with it. Plus, much more important, nobody got hurt.
She hasn't 'gotten away' with anything, as she hasn't done anything wrong.
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In other circumstances she and others who think it's normal that others have to adapt to their culture, might not. Let's face it, in other countries outside Western Europe she might have a bullet in her head now, as considered maybe an armed partner in crime hiding behind the door, or something like that. Good strategy, really.
She might also have raped, beaten, and then had a bullet in her head...in any country.


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There's a link between clueless foreigners and missing acceptance among the Swiss.
completely irrelevant to this topic

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N.B. I'm an SP, not SVP voter.
again, irrelevant
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  #171  
Old 09.02.2015, 03:03
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Dear? You really are an asshole...
yawn ....


hard in understanding, Monsieur, like quite all the rest of those fresh-off-the-boat guys here, aren't you?


The WOMAN has a point asking the EF crowd if she is responsible for not opening doors, from a legal side. Maybe it would have been better to ask a lawyer in the first place, as nobody knows the answer here, but gee yes why shouldn't one ask for strangers' opinions on odd issues. Herding instinct among foreigners is not so uncommon, apparently, but this is another theme, another problem in this context (even if connected).


What happened to her can easily happen to anybody, especially in bigger towns, also in Switzerland.
Well, if one doesn't speak the language, take it easy, hope for the best, if you misunderstand or are misunterstood, if no major harm is done, keep on smiling; but don't blame others for the risks you have been consciously taken, before setting foot on this country. Nobody obliged you, this is a free country.


Consider that, especially with regards to actions like arresting people, also armed forces can make errors and may not always act in a proper way.
My last worries would be if I have the law on my side, meanwhile a simple action could have resolved everything within a minute. If I were the woman, instead of complaining, I would be happy not to be shot neither by the guy the Police were after nor to be harmed in any other way during the attempt to arrest him. However, de gustibus ...


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...
completely irrelevant to this topic


again, irrelevant
Nowhere in Mitteleuropa an attitude like a complete ignorance of the local language and a deep mistrust towards authorities would be appreciated. At least not from somebody who (for linguistic gaps) is unable to understand anything of a local culture and a country's institutions. Criticism imho is very welcome in Switzerland. If one makes at least a little try to get something out of it. Not in terms of money or wages, I mean. How can I possibly criticise a thing if I don't understand the language required for its use and experience?
My second message was: Look, an SVP voter might appreciate even less than I would.
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  #172  
Old 09.02.2015, 03:17
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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yawn ....
hard in understanding, Monsieur, like quite all the rest of those fresh-off-the-boat guys here, aren't you?
If you'd write in comprehensible English here on English Forum, than surely you'd be understood, no?

I'm not fresh off any boat, chico.
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The WOMAN has a point asking the EF crowd if she is responsible for not opening doors, from a legal side. Maybe it would have been better to ask a lawyer in the first place, as nobody knows the answer here, but gee yes why shouldn't one ask for strangers' opinions on odd issues. Herding instinct among foreigners is not so uncommon, apparently, but this is another theme, another problem in this context (even if connected).
She has gotten some good advice, it seems. I'm not sure what you're on about, ragging on her for asking the forum for advice about something. Why are you on this forum to begin with? To teach ignorant auslanders lessons?
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but don't blame others for the risks you have been consciously taken.
She didn't blame anybody for anything
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Consider that, especially with regards to actions like arresting people, also armed forces can make errors and may not always act in a proper way.
My last worries would be if I have the law on my side, meanwhile a simple action could have resolved everything within a minute.
That's why she called the police...


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Nowhere in Mitteleuropa an attitude like a complete ignorance of the local language and a deep mistrust towards authorities would be appreciated. At least not from somebody who (for linguistic gaps) is unable to understand anything of a local culture and a country's institutions. Criticism imho is very welcome in Switzerland. If one makes at least a little try to get something out of it. Not in terms of money or wages, I mean. How can I possibly criticise a thing if I don't understand the language required for its use and experience?
My second message was: Look, an SVP voter might appreciate even less than I would.
Again, your English is faulty and parts of the above are unintelligible. Nowhere did the OP mention a mistrust of the local authorities - in fact, she called them to diffuse a potential crime.

But you can read whatever you want into it, and paint ugly pictures in your head of all the ignorant foreigners in your perfect, precious little gem of a country.

Sweet dreams
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  #173  
Old 09.02.2015, 05:05
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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If you'd write in comprehensible English here on English Forum, than surely you'd be understood, no?
...
Was that English?
You should work on your conditional clauses, I guess. Anyhow, I don't care, as English is not an official language in Switzerland, i.e. without relevance.


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...
I'm not fresh off any boat, chico.
...
I meant it as an euphemism for clueless foreigners.
So you are on that same boat again, dear.


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... To teach ignorant auslanders lessons?
...
That would be useless, apparently.
As it requires the ability to learn.


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She didn't blame anybody for anything

That's why she called the police...



Again, your English is faulty and parts of the above are unintelligible. Nowhere did the OP mention a mistrust of the local authorities - in fact, she called them to diffuse a potential crime.
...
First error: She was unable to communicate with the Police.
Second: She didn't believe the Police were the Police.
Third: She blamed the Police for not speaking English with her.
Fourth: She repetedly affirms the Police want to charge her to simply bother her and that they are aggressive against her.
Fifth: She doesn't see that misunderstandings like this can happen to anybody, especially if one doesn't bother to speak the language. Complaining about misunderstandings not speaking the language in question is all but normal.


Stating and restating that my English is bad (yours is, too; however, probably mine is much worse, but why should that be important?) does not change anything. You are in Switzerland and English is no official language, quite nobody willing to interact with anybody in that language, especially on institutional matters. If one tries to do it in English despite that fact, more power to him. But if he fails like the woman, get over it and don't blame others.
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Old 09.02.2015, 09:04
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Bucentaure, in case you are not trolling, would you consider leaving it there, on the basis that you've already made your "points"?

Joga-trn, I'd be interested in any updates you can give as this progresses.

Urs Max, is there a procedural time limit on the state's next move, given that there are apparently pending charges at the moment? By state I just mean police / prosecutor / whoever.
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  #175  
Old 09.02.2015, 09:05
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Was that English?

It sure was:


1. The conditional construction does not normally use will or would in if-clauses. EXCEPTION: If will or would express willingness, as in requests, they can be used in if-clauses.
e.g. If you will come this way, the manager will see you now.
I would be grateful if you would give me a little help.
(= please, come this way; please, give me...)
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blah blah...

Stating and restating that my English is bad (yours is, too; however, probably mine is much worse, but why should that be important?) does not change anything. You are in Switzerland and English is no official language, quite nobody willing to interact with anybody in that language, especially on institutional matters. If one tries to do it in English despite that fact, more power to him. But if he fails like the woman, get over it and don't blame others.
Your English is very good - it's just that what you wrote made no sense. Understand?

Obviously YOU are quite willing to interact with anybody in this language, you condescending prick.

ciao
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  #176  
Old 09.02.2015, 14:06
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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It sure was:


1. The conditional construction does not normally use will or would in if-clauses. EXCEPTION: If will or would express willingness, as in requests, they can be used in if-clauses.
e.g. If you will come this way, the manager will see you now.
I would be grateful if you would give me a little help.
(= please, come this way; please, give me...)
...
You sure?
My guess would have been past simple in the dependent clause, but I might be wrong again.


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Bucentaure, in case you are not trolling, would you consider leaving it there, on the basis that you've already made your "points"?
...
If you wish.
Just waiting for a hint that at least somebody of you newbies did get something out of this story.
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  #177  
Old 09.02.2015, 14:55
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Urs Max, is there a procedural time limit on the state's next move, given that there are apparently pending charges at the moment? By state I just mean police / prosecutor / whoever.
Depending on the seriousness of the crime there is a statute of limitations.
It's about 10 years IIRC
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  #178  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:45
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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If you wish.
Just waiting for a hint that at least somebody of you newbies did get something out of this story.
Well - you're rantings have made me wish for a filter button.
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  #179  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:51
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Well - you're rantings have made me wish for a filter button.
Boy, good English also this one.


No wonder you struggle to adapt to the local culture.


However, also in real life there is nothing like a filter button.


Love it or leave it, this applies to both, general life and Switzerland, too.
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  #180  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:55
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Boy, good English also this one.


No wonder you struggle to adapt to the local culture.


However, also in real life there is nothing like a filter button.


Love it or leave it, this applies to both, general life and Switzerland, too.
Talking about good English, you might like to review the rules for comma placement, innit?
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