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Old 04.02.2015, 19:19
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Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Hello
I recently refused to open my apartment door to two dark dressed men who began ringing and then banging with fists at my door. I was alone in the house and it frightened me considerably that someone would bang on the door and then even pull on the handle to get in, thank god I locked it from the inside.

After this fierceful banging happened twice I rushed to the door and asked who's there, they replied in German which I didn't understand and said what German I could 'Ich verstehen nicht't, sprichst du English?' they replied in German again, I repeated the same several times and only then I heard 'We are the police, open the door'. I looked through the peek hole and saw two normal civilian men, one with long beard, dodgy looking, holding a police batch. I asked what they wanted, but they refused to give me the reason, so I was afraid to open, thinking this is a hoax, they might be burglars or criminals. After all, I didn't know the neighbourhood, I only arrived here one week ago.

In summary, the aggressive behaviour of these two men and refusal to give me any sort of explanation as to why I should open the door, altered me to the highest possible level and my body went into a fight-or-flight mode. I began shaking and thought of all possible scenarios, including the worst. I called the landlady of my flat, and her advice was not to open the door until they clarify why they are there. I also called the 117 and informed the police that two people claim to be police officers but they don't have uniforms, there is no police car (which I checked through my window) and they try to desperately break into my apartment, and threaten me they will force the door open and I will have to pay for the damages. In result a police patrol was send immediately over to my flat.

When the uniformed police arrived, only then I was feeling the threat was gone, and I could open the door. The end of the story is that these two men were real police officers. One of them pressed charges against me and I was interrogated by himself the following morning. When coming to the police station I was expecting to hear an explanation, what happened, and maybe apology, because I was clearly in a shaky state, nearly crying when the situation happened, nothing was my fault.

The end result is that police was looking for a tenant who was previously registered at the apartment, I don't know who it was. Were they rightful to press these charges against me, the charge was that I prevented this crime police perform their duties.

What are your opinions?
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Old 04.02.2015, 19:27
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Nah , I think you will be fine.
Ever considered placing a complaint against them? Not that it will result to anything but it might make them want them to drop the charge. Do not forget that they made a mistake....not you.


I would def seek legal advice at this point. Even Asloca (renters association) might have enough knowledge to go further.
And in your situation I would have done the exact same!


There was a story like this a while back from a different member almost exactly the same but I forget who it was.....

btw change your location in your profile.
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Old 04.02.2015, 19:43
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

You do not have to open the door to anybody, not even police officers.

The law is entirely on your side.

Furthermore, you could have asked them to leave the building, and if they hadn't done so immediately they would be guilty of trespassing.

The only exception is if they have a search warrant, which in this case they clearly didn't or they would have produced it.

So if they want to press charges against you, they have no legal standing against you.

You, on the other hand, could report them for harrasment and heavy-handed behaviour.

My advice to anybody to who this should happen in future is to take out a film camera and film the whole incident, informing them that they are now being filmed and that by not leaving your property they are expressing their approval of being filmed. The police strangely don't like evidence that can be used against them, especially if it unleashes a shitstorm on Youtube..
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Old 04.02.2015, 19:58
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Nah , I think you will be fine.
Ever considered placing a complaint against them? Not that it will result to anything but it might make them want them to drop the charge. Do not forget that they made a mistake....not you.


I would def seek legal advice at this point. Even Asloca (renters association) might have enough knowledge to go further.
And in your situation I would have done the exact same!


There was a story like this a while back from a different member almost exactly the same but I forget who it was.....

btw change your location in your profile.


Hello, thank you for reply. Yes I have questioned myself if I should do anything about it, but where to complain? We decided that we will seek lawyer's help if the prosecutor finds me guilty and decides to charge me, but this is a worst case scenario resolution. For the time being I can wait until the decision comes alas it will be a stressful wait.

Also a detail which I didn't clarify before is that I was renting via AirBnB, but my host/landlady was on the phone with me as it happened.

I would be interested to read this person's story, I searched the forum hoping to find similar cases but didn't find it.
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Old 04.02.2015, 19:58
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Joga-trn

Sorry to read your story.

Wonder how they got in the main door?

Going forward would suggest you introduce yourself to other neighbours, if anyone home round the same time as you, even if you do not speak their language, would believe it to be a comfort to know they are there.

Have you told your HausLady the story, maybe she could advise/help you.

My OH only once had encounter with uniformed Police, to do with his car. Lucky my OH speaks the language. The long and short of it was, they were very pleasant, as my OH was very calm. We found out later, they could have fined him, as he did not have any ID on him, but did not, after they drove him home to pick it up.
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:12
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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You do not have to open the door to anybody, not even police officers.

The law is entirely on your side.

Furthermore, you could have asked them to leave the building, and if they hadn't done so immediately they would be guilty of trespassing.

The only exception is if they have a search warrant, which in this case they clearly didn't or they would have produced it.

So if they want to press charges against you, they have no legal standing against you.

You, on the other hand, could report them for harrasment and heavy-handed behaviour.

My advice to anybody to who this should happen in future is to take out a film camera and film the whole incident, informing them that they are now being filmed and that by not leaving your property they are expressing their approval of being filmed. The police strangely don't like evidence that can be used against them, especially if it unleashes a shitstorm on Youtube..

Hello, during the interrogation the police officer told me they had the right to enter the flat and the fact that I didn't want to open was suspicious to them. But my defence was strong, I tried to mediate with them at the time and asked what is the reason for their visit. Unfortunately this was not a good argument in his view and he was strongly asserted in the opinion that I was at fault for not letting them in. They never said they had any search warrant, not on the day or even later during the interrogation.

When my fight-or-flight instinct kicked in I called my partner on Facetime and he witnessed online everything that happened. When I finally let them inside, the most offensive police officer (the one who also pressed the charges) asked me to hang-up on that call. I do regret that I didn't record audio from this incident, something to remember for the future.
Thank you for your advice, it's very helpful.
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:13
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Don't the police themselves always advise, in cases like this, that, if in doubt, call the local station to verify the authenticity of anyone claiming to be police.
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:20
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Hello, during the interrogation the police officer told me they had the right to enter the flat and the fact that I didn't want to open was suspicious to them. But my defence was strong, I tried to mediate with them at the time and asked what is the reason for their visit. Unfortunately this was not a good argument in his view and he was strongly asserted in the opinion that I was at fault for not letting them in. They never said they had any search warrant, not on the day or even later during the interrogation.

When my fight-or-flight instinct kicked in I called my partner on Facetime and he witnessed online everything that happened. When I finally let them inside, the most offensive police officer (the one who also pressed the charges) asked me to hang-up on that call. I do regret that I didn't record audio from this incident, something to remember for the future.
Thank you for your advice, it's very helpful.
The police will often lie when doing an interview..... nothing new here.
I think the biggest problem is that you spoke to the police & made a statement, no doubt in German. You are not required to speak to them, I suspect you have confessed to something.......
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:21
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

Of course you could have just opened the door and talked to them. S'wot I'd have done, and I'm pretty sure it would all have been resolved without any sort of hassle.

Not that I'm arguing that you did wrong, but for me it seems that the path of least resistance would have been to be all nice and friendly with them until they'd established you weren't who they were looking for.
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:23
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Of course you could have just opened the door and talked to them. S'wot I'd have done, and I'm pretty sure it would all have been resolved without any sort of hassle.

Not that I'm arguing that you did wrong, but for me it seems that the path of least resistance would have been to be all nice and friendly with them until they'd established you weren't who they were looking for.
Yeah, but you're a geezer (who's been here some time) ...... I get the impression that the OP is a girlie, and is fresh off the boat.
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:26
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Hello, during the interrogation the police officer told me they had the right to enter the flat and the fact that I didn't want to open was suspicious to them.
This sounds wrong. They do not have that right without a search warrant.

Of course it can be suspicious if you refuse to open without a reason. But suspicion alone does not make you guilty.

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But my defence was strong, I tried to mediate with them at the time and asked what is the reason for their visit. Unfortunately this was not a good argument in his view and he was strongly asserted in the opinion that I was at fault for not letting them in. They never said they had any search warrant, not on the day or even later during the interrogation.
Again, they are wrong. You tried to speak to them. You were de-escalating the situation and they were escalating it.

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When my fight-or-flight instinct kicked in I called my partner on Facetime and he witnessed online everything that happened. When I finally let them inside, the most offensive police officer (the one who also pressed the charges) asked me to hang-up on that call. I do regret that I didn't record audio from this incident, something to remember for the future.
Thank you for your advice, it's very helpful.
When you're under stress and being intimidated, you often do things you later regret. The police rely on this and intimidate purposely to make life easier for themselves. So don't feel bad about it. They do this every day and it was your first time.
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Old 04.02.2015, 20:44
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Of course you could have just opened the door and talked to them. S'wot I'd have done, and I'm pretty sure it would all have been resolved without any sort of hassle.

Not that I'm arguing that you did wrong, but for me it seems that the path of least resistance would have been to be all nice and friendly with them until they'd established you weren't who they were looking for.
Two aggressive guys come to my door and tell me they are the police without uniform, I ain't going to open that door.

And yeah, I am a woman home alone during the day.
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:03
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

I had them once at midnight when they came to tell me my ex husband had died. They looked scary but were the nicest people ever.

They even ignored the fact that my boyfriend's bag of marijuana was sitting on the coffee table.

If you have nothing to hide - why not just open the door. They are just doing their job.

Another time they came looking for a guy who we had put up for a few days, he was on an Interpol search. We hadn't seen or heard from him in a couple of years. They were very courteous and polite.

I gave up shaking in my shoes whenever i see a policeman years ago.
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:06
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Two aggressive guys come to my door and tell me they are the police without uniform, I ain't going to open that door.
Because you specifically ordered your Strippergrams to wear police uniforms. Next time, get a written quote before hiring these cheap Euro import models ....
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:07
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I had them once at midnight when they came to tell me my ex husband had died. They looked scary but were the nicest people ever.

They even ignored the fact that my boyfriend's bag of marijuana was sitting on the coffee table.

If you have nothing to hide - why not just open the door. They are just doing their job.

Another time they came looking for a guy who we had put up for a few days, he was on an Interpol search. We hadn't seen or heard from him in a couple of years. They were very courteous and polite.

I gave up shaking in my shoes whenever i see a policeman years ago.
I think it's the possibility that they weren't who they claimed to be, that was the issue, here ...... as in Nil's post above.
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:16
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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The police will often lie when doing an interview..... nothing new here.
I think the biggest problem is that you spoke to the police & made a statement, no doubt in German. You are not required to speak to them, I suspect you have confessed to something.......

I was told to come to the police station and I will be given an explanation of what happened. I obiedently went in anticipation of first, an explanation and second, to ask them if the person they were looking for is dangerous and if I am safe by staying in this apartment. The reply I heard was: we were looking for someone else, not you, but I can't say anything about this person, but most likely you are not under threat.

During the interrogation there was a translator, who translated his German into English. Everything I sad during that interrogation was in English, this then translated to German and written down by the interrogator. I made a full statement which was then read out loud by the translator to me, and I agreed with that and signed. I didn't admit I took blame for anything. I explained that I was acting in self-defence. I called the police for some intervention, shouldn't that make an intelligent person understand I really felt threatened?
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:22
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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....
Also a detail which I didn't clarify before is that I was renting via AirBnB, but my host/landlady was on the phone with me as it happened.


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....
I called the landlady of my flat, and her advice was not to open the door until they clarify why they are there.
I also called the 117 and informed the Police....
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When my fight-or-flight instinct kicked in I called my partner on Facetime and he witnessed online everything that happened.

Were you on all three calls at once, or one after another? Could your host/landlady and your partner hear the other calls?


What did your host/landlady advise you, right then, when she was on the phone with you? What did your partner witness (hear or see, online)? Could your host/landlady and/or your partner perhaps phone or go to the Police, or write to them, explaining that you and she/he were talking when they banged on the door, what she/he heard, and what she/he told you to do, etc.?


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....
... a police patrol was send immediately over to my flat.
That part sounds good. If I were you, I would try to find out who the uniformed Police in the patrol car were, and ask them for their help, again, in sorting this matter out. You could also argue that the 117 desk obviously thought your call for help was justified.
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:46
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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I had them once at midnight when they came to tell me my ex husband had died. They looked scary but were the nicest people ever.

They even ignored the fact that my boyfriend's bag of marijuana was sitting on the coffee table.

If you have nothing to hide - why not just open the door. They are just doing their job.

Another time they came looking for a guy who we had put up for a few days, he was on an Interpol search. We hadn't seen or heard from him in a couple of years. They were very courteous and polite.

I gave up shaking in my shoes whenever i see a policeman years ago.
If I see the guys in the uniform and a badge, they can come in. Otherwise, tough luck.
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:47
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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...If you have nothing to hide - why not just open the door. They are just doing their job...
Yah, no. Sorry. Two dudes show up at my door in plain clothes, after dark, and I'm home alone? I'm not opening the door.

I speak decent enough German to tell them to take a hike and come back with some properly clothed officers. In the daytime. And I can shout loud enough to wake up the block, if necessary.
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Old 04.02.2015, 21:56
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Re: Unjustified police intervention and pressed charges

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Because you specifically ordered your Strippergrams to wear police uniforms. Next time, get a written quote before hiring these cheap Euro import models ....
I do like it rough but no uniform? That's a deal breaker.

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