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  #101  
Old 06.02.2015, 10:57
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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Is that supposed to have some correlation to a person with a bad diet complaining of low energy levels due to tiredness? Or were you purposefully trying to appear as irrelevant as possible?
Yeah, drinking alcohol does have a correlation with a bad diet. Because it is part of it. I for one am guilty of it and I am pretty sure you are as well.

I am in no way negating that people should eat healthy, but your posts are so full of righteousness that it hurts. Yes, you happen to be a skinny guy. A very skinny guy who doesn't manage to bulk up muscles no matter how hard he tries - which probably means that you are the way you look based on genetics and not just your diet... but let's get back to bashing fatties.
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  #102  
Old 06.02.2015, 11:24
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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Yeah, drinking alcohol does have a correlation with a bad diet. Because it is part of it. I for one am guilty of it and I am pretty sure you are as well.

I am in no way negating that people should eat healthy, but your posts are so full of righteousness that it hurts. Yes, you happen to be a skinny guy. A very skinny guy who doesn't manage to bulk up muscles no matter how hard he tries - which probably means that you are the way you look based on genetics and not just your diet... but let's get back to bashing fatties.
You are still making little sense.

You can have a good diet, and still drink alcohol moderately (and no, I'm not guilty of drinking too much since a while now, and I also stopped the smoking too). The posts in this thread have been about unhealthily overweight people who say they are too tired to eat healthily, to which I responded that there is simply no reason not to eat healthily and lose weight, all it takes is willpower. Your comments about beer are just irrelevant in that context, nothing more than trying to distract from the above points.

Yes I'm a genetically thin guy, but not sure what you mean by the bizzarre "unable to bulk up muscles no matter how hard he tries" comments... I will never be Arnie, but putting on muscle has never been an issue.

However if a persons anger in this thread comes form being unhealthily overweight and being unable to lose it then fine it's understandable, just do something about it...
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  #103  
Old 06.02.2015, 11:31
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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[...] Tiredness is not, and never will be, an excuse for letting your health slide. Especially more so considering that energy levels are also directly related to your diet, which also affects your sleep cycles and quality.
You've never been REALLY tired, have you? Although, to be fair, I have often got to the point where you are so tired that you just don't eat, so that would "work" too, I guess. IIRC you smoke, which is probably as unhealthy as being obese and slowly but surely getting the same level of stigma. Yet smokers often seem to argue with "it's my personal choice" - while also complaining about the unfairness of not being able to smoke in bars and restaurants anymore. As an asthmatic I am THRILLED that smoking is banned inside - I basically almost never went out to party before because it would make me sick for two days.


I don't think you are a bad person because you smoke but I do tend to think there is a weakness with anyone who chooses to actively harm their body with any substance beyond what I call "a homeopathic level" (I'm shooting for a Friday "smoking-fat people-homeopathy hattrick here). A homeopathic level being something like the one Schoggistängeli at 4 o'clock, the very occasional cigarette when going out or the cigar you may enjoy with a nice glass of whisky once every few weeks. Smoking on a regular basis or plowing through an entire bar of chocolate every day - something not quite right but again, I don't assume that being a smoker affects how you do your job or that it serves as an indicator of anything other than maybe a slight selfishness if you are one of those smokers who just tosses their cigarette butts in the street or has me coughing furiously because you have built a wall of smoke in front of buildings that I have to enter/exit.

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What relevance does a near-anorexic, 1.75m tall, 50KG lady have in this thread? That is not even a normal example of someone losing weight that any sane person would even consider following.
Quite a lot, actually. A lot of women that I know are engaged in a daily battle of trying to maintain an "acceptable" body. You think those stats are near-anorexic and out of the ordinary, yet I can tell you that a girl that I know who appeared in FHM was in fact 1.77m and 53kg at the time of the shoot, with around 18% body fat. I know this because I did the weighing and measuring. She would frequently exercise twice a day and tended to skip dinner - and she is one of the naturally slim individuals, nobody in her family is overweight and she has always been slim. So if someone like that has to battle to fit within those norms, then imagine what those whose bodies have embraced the "store every bit of food you can find, we may run out of mammoths any day now" 100% have to do?


It's my friend's job to look great in clothes and she still does ten years on, I find her a little too slender for my taste but she works so hard to get that result and I know she is definitely not anorexic, just a bit obsessive. I think the main thing is to stop assuming that your personal reality and experience matches others. Yes, I have to stop myself from staring at the guy on the bus who needs two seats, yet I don't feel revulsion, I feel sad for him because I know that he can't be comfortable and that something must have gone rather wrong at some point. Imagine being that big - where does one start if you want to lose weight? You may say "we need to prevent people from getting that big" - I agree, but telling those at risk that a) they are lazy and undisciplined and b) constantly projecting an unattainable ideal and suggesting that there is only one "proper" body type is basically only useful if you are a marketeer for snake oil and pipe dreams. This is why I think it's cool that they put Ashley Graham in Swimsuit Illustrated - showing a range of beauty is definitely a step in the right direction in my view.


ETA: Well done Richdog for quitting smoking, but there is no way I'm retyping all that Seriously though, well done.

Last edited by Kittster; 06.02.2015 at 11:34. Reason: Updated to reflect new facts ;)
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  #104  
Old 06.02.2015, 11:40
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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You've never been REALLY tired, have you? Although, to be fair, I have often got to the point where you are so tired that you just don't eat, so that would "work" too, I guess. IIRC you smoke, which is probably as unhealthy as being obese and slowly but surely getting the same level of stigma. Yet smokers often seem to argue with "it's my personal choice" - while also complaining about the unfairness of not being able to smoke in bars and restaurants anymore. As an asthmatic I am THRILLED that smoking is banned inside - I basically almost never went out to party before because it would make me sick for two days.


I don't think you are a bad person because you smoke but I do tend to think there is a weakness with anyone who chooses to actively harm their body with any substance beyond what I call "a homeopathic level" (I'm shooting for a Friday "smoking-fat people-homeopathy hattrick here). A homeopathic level being something like the one Schoggistängeli at 4 o'clock, the very occasional cigarette when going out or the cigar you may enjoy with a nice glass of whisky once every few weeks. Smoking on a regular basis or plowing through an entire bar of chocolate every day - something not quite right but again, I don't assume that being a smoker affects how you do your job or that it serves as an indicator of anything other than maybe a slight selfishness if you are one of those smokers who just tosses their cigarette butts in the street or has me coughing furiously because you have built a wall of smoke in front of buildings that I have to enter/exit.

Quite a lot, actually. A lot of women that I know are engaged in a daily battle of trying to maintain an "acceptable" body. You think those stats are near-anorexic and out of the ordinary, yet I can tell you that a girl that I know who appeared in FHM was in fact 1.77m and 53kg at the time of the shoot, with around 18% body fat. I know this because I did the weighing and measuring. She would frequently exercise twice a day and tended to skip dinner - and she is one of the naturally slim individuals, nobody in her family is overweight and she has always been slim. So if someone like that has to battle to fit within those norms, then imagine what those whose bodies have embraced the "store every bit of food you can find, we may run out of mammoths any day now" 100% have to do?


It's my friend's job to look great in clothes and she still does ten years on, I find her a little too slender for my taste but she works so hard to get that result and I know she is definitely not anorexic, just a bit obsessive. I think the main thing is to stop assuming that your personal reality and experience matches others. Yes, I have to stop myself from staring at the guy on the bus who needs two seats, yet I don't feel revulsion, I feel sad for him because I know that he can't be comfortable and that something must have gone rather wrong at some point. Imagine being that big - where does one start if you want to lose weight? You may say "we need to prevent people from getting that big" - I agree, but telling those at risk that a) they are lazy and undisciplined and b) constantly projecting an unattainable ideal and suggesting that there is only one "proper" body type is basically only useful if you are a marketeer for snake oil and pipe dreams. This is why I think it's cool that they put Ashley Graham in Swimsuit Illustrated - showing a range of beauty is definitely a step in the right direction in my view.


ETA: Well done Richdog for quitting smoking, but there is no way I'm retyping all that Seriously though, well done.
Yes Kitts I have been tired... I have been so low that I had no will or motivation to do anything... we've all had our problems and I'm no different.

PS: Thanks, it seems to have required me quitting alcohol to do it, but I really do feel a hell of a lot better in every respect, psychologically and physically. As for the money I am saving... jesus.

My posts in this thread are not meant to be bashing people who are slightly overweight... just those that are overweight to the point where it potentially affects their health, and who then complain about it. We all (within reason) have the power to fix this stuff, there is no reason for anyone to look in the mirror every day and feel miserable.
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  #105  
Old 06.02.2015, 11:44
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Big girls need to suck it up

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However if your anger here comes form being unhealthily overweight and being unable to lose it then fine, just do something about it...

My anger comes from the same old bullshit arguments about willpower, judgments about people based on appearance when you know nothing about anything else, total black and white thinking when it's not. If you know all the answers, why aren't you all famous doctors raking in the dough for helping people loose weight? Read some medical literature about this if you think it's so easy. And, loosing weight can be helpful, but not a panacea. This simplistic thinking makes me angry.


For example....i know loads of women with cancer. Some of them are active and healthy, vegans even. Some are thin and lazy, some are fat and active and everywhere in between. There is just no rhyme or reason. And when you look at the women dying, again some are obese, some are thin. It's so frustrating....you try to be healthy but it doesn't always matter.

A thread about consumerism could go so many ways, but here, it has to divert into judgemental bullshit about fat (mostly) women. If women spent more time thinking about important stuff and worrying less about this bulge and that bulge, the world would be a better place. I regret wasting my time in this thread.

But i agree with the OP. Why complain - shop elsewhere. There are lots of brands to accommodate all sorts of sizes. Better quality too.

Rant over. Does ignore work on tapatalk? I hope so.
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  #106  
Old 06.02.2015, 11:48
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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My anger comes from the same old bullshit arguments about willpower, judgments about people based on appearance when you know nothing about anything else, total black and white thinking when it's not. If you know all the answers, why aren't you all famous doctors raking in the dough for helping people loose weight? Read some medical literature about this if you think it's so easy. And, loosing weight can be helpful, but not a panacea. This simplistic thinking makes me angry.

A thread about consumerism could go so many ways, but here, it has to divert into judgemental bullshit about fat (mostly) women. If women spent more time thinking about important stuff and worrying less about this bulge and that bulge, the world would be a better place. I regret wasting my time in this thread.

But i agree with the OP. Why complain - shop elsewhere. There are lots of brands to accommodate all sorts of sizes. Better quality too.

Rant over. Does ignore work on tapatalk? I hope so.
The irony is you haven't offered one logical argument against my posts, other than this faux-outrage which you seem to love peddling when you get the chance.

I would say the exact same about fat men if they complained about not being abe to get oversized underwear in H&M. Gender makes zero difference to the point I was making about people controlling their own health.
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  #107  
Old 06.02.2015, 11:52
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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My anger comes from the same old bullshit arguments about willpower, judgments about people based on appearance when you know nothing about anything else, total black and white thinking when it's not. If you know all the answers, why aren't you all famous doctors raking in the dough for helping people loose weight? Read some medical literature about this if you think it's so easy. And, loosing weight can be helpful, but not a panacea. This simplistic thinking makes me angry.
I have two overweight people in my family.

One has had their lymphatic system removed due to cancer and so suffers from fluid retention.
The other has only one kidney which failed and so also suffers suffers from fluid retention.

Admittedly, one probably ate too much too, but if you saw them both, you'd think 'fatties' but it's not that simple.

But, for a lot of people, it's an eating-disorder with mental issues that need resolving.
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  #108  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:06
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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What are you doing wrong? Well, you're not burning off more calories than you consume. Physics..
Yep.
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Eat less calories and healthier foods until you start losing weight.
For some people it really isn't that easy. Let's say that for whatever medical reason someone's natural body weight is to be chubby. This seems more common than one would expect. So, this person eats much less but their body conspires against them, storing everything it can and the person ends up so lethargic and tired they can't function properly. Sure, they'd eventually get slimmer but as soon as they want energy (to feel more "alive", to be active etc) the weight will come back on again.

So although the issue is simple physics, that doesn't imply the solution itself is so simple. The fact a question is easy to understand doesn't mean the answer is easy.

Overweight (this is a relative term anyway, and I'm not talking about obese as they need help) people need to make sure they're eating correctly and just enough to stay healthy and fit. Once they're doing that, if they're still chubby, then that's life. They can only lose weight by actually becoming less healthy.
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  #109  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:09
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

Read this:
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2014/10...nd-mental.html



Just as an example that obesity, and chronic diseases have complex similar root causes and not just stupid people making stupid choices.

It's not faux outrage, richdog, it's real.

Look at some of the research on eating disorder treatment, sucess rates of dieting and gastric bypass. Look at the obesity paradox in heart disease. Work on health at every size - some good, some bad. There's a bit of research on fat shaming and fat talk and how it doesn't help.

There is recent stuff about willpower as a more organized, thoughtful process e.g, the work of Baumeister, and that's very intriguing....but more complicated than thought originally.

Maybe you're gender blind, richdog, but it's not just you in this thread.

I don't see much evidence coming from you either. And i don't care, so have a nice weekend and actually, good for you for stopping smoking.
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  #110  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:32
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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The irony is you haven't offered one logical argument against my posts, other than this faux-outrage which you seem to love peddling when you get the chance.

I would say the exact same about fat men if they complained about not being abe to get oversized underwear in H&M. Gender makes zero difference to the point I was making about people controlling their own health.
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But, for a lot of people, it's an eating-disorder with mental issues that need resolving.
I think what you both miss in your arguments is that some people just don't care that they are big. The same way some people don't care that smoking may give them cancer, they just carry on and ignore it.
It may be an unhealthy choice, but it is their own personal choice, and it impacts only themselves.
If they don't care, why do you?
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  #111  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:32
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

LOL these kinda threads crack me up, they remind me of a tv program in the uk, can't remember the name, where they followed larger people who "just can't lose weight" one woman in particular swore blind she ate very little and always healthy stuff, so they set up spycams etc

she said she has a small bowl of fruit for breakfast

in realty she had (and this is no BS) a BUCKET of fruit, covered in yogart

then repeat during the day, her small salad was a huge salad with every high fat dressing possible on

lots of snacks during the day etc etc

as rich says, the formula is simple. burn more then you eat, there is no magic health condition that produces fat out of thin air.

I was pretty shocked when I found out just how many calories booze has in it, not that I'm gonna stop drinking it lol
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  #112  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:32
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

I'm not on EF for long but somehow I got the feeling that this thread would go the way it is going... The slight picture-related posts I made to try and keep the mood cheerful did not work, so let's be serious.
The majority of overweight people are in this condition because of eating disorders or chronic diseases. In both cases we're talking about people being ill. I don't see how telling them to "take better care of themselves" might improve their condition. If I'm sick I look for a cure... why should they not do the same? Assuming this is true I don't even think there is anything they can do which they are not already doing or tried in the past.
Telling them to "start eating healthily" is as productive as telling them to "become more rich so you've better health care". Actually the latter would be a better advice then the former IMHO.
Even in those few cases where "start eating healthily" could be an advice worth following there may be many other issues connected (e.g. stress) so we're back to square one.

But since it's Friday I suppose this will go on as it is so enjoy
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  #113  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:42
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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Yes I'm a genetically thin guy,...
Ok. So you're a "genetically thin guy", have a tendency to not put on weight... But people are not "genetically fat" or with a genetic tendency to put and keep weight on?

Women in general are genetically programmed to put on weight and keep it on. Men are not.
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  #114  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:42
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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My anger comes from the same old bullshit arguments about willpower, judgments about people based on appearance when you know nothing about anything else, total black and white thinking when it's not. If you know all the answers, why aren't you all famous doctors raking in the dough for helping people loose weight? Read some medical literature about this if you think it's so easy. And, loosing weight can be helpful, but not a panacea. This simplistic thinking makes me angry.


For example....i know loads of women with cancer. Some of them are active and healthy, vegans even. Some are thin and lazy, some are fat and active and everywhere in between. There is just no rhyme or reason. And when you look at the women dying, again some are obese, some are thin. It's so frustrating....you try to be healthy but it doesn't always matter.

A thread about consumerism could go so many ways, but here, it has to divert into judgemental bullshit about fat (mostly) women. If women spent more time thinking about important stuff and worrying less about this bulge and that bulge, the world would be a better place. I regret wasting my time in this thread.

But i agree with the OP. Why complain - shop elsewhere. There are lots of brands to accommodate all sorts of sizes. Better quality too.

Rant over. Does ignore work on tapatalk? I hope so.
Why are you wasting your anger on this thread?

This thread is about people complaining about a company who do not satisfy their own personal needs and using the bullshit PC world, to make it a big deal and gain sympathy/attention, instead of doing something about it themselves.

Its like an average sized person complaining to an oversize shop they don't have anything in their size, that's how ridiculous this is.
Difference being the average sized person doesn't have the backing of the pc idiots.

Instead of living in a world of misery get up off your lazy ass and go do something about it if you're not happy.

*Rant excludes those that are genuinely over weight due to a medical condition, which to be honest this thread has nothing to do with anyway.
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Old 06.02.2015, 12:43
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

I'm sure there was a study recently that said there was no such thing and genetically thin or fat
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Old 06.02.2015, 12:46
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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Ok. So you're a "genetically thin guy", have a tendency to not put on weight... But people are not "genetically fat" or with a genetic tendency to put and keep weight on?

Women in general are genetically programmed to put on weight and keep it on. Men are not.
People are not "genetically fat". Sure, some people gain weight more easily due to a lower metabolism, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to be fat. They could eat healthily and still maintain an ideal healthy weight. Everyone can, barring debilitating medical or psychological issues..
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Old 06.02.2015, 12:52
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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This thread is about people complaining about a company who do not satisfy their own personal needs and using the bullshit PC world, to make it a big deal and gain sympathy/attention, instead of doing something about it themselves.

Its like an average sized person complaining to an oversize shop they don't have anything in their size, that's how ridiculous this is.
Difference being the average sized person doesn't have the backing of the pc idiots.

Instead of living in a world of misery get up off your lazy ass and go do something about it if you're not happy.
This thread SHOULD have been about that until the OP decided it was his place to go into a rant about "big girls" and others jumped on the band wagon spouting BS about "lazy" fat people.

Had it been left at the "point" without the psychological analysis of "big girls", I'm sure this thread would have died a long time ago as I think most people agree complaining that a store doesn't carry the products you want/need is just silly.

It's like us all going to Migros and insisting they sell alcohol. They choose not to. So people go buy their alcohol elsewhere. Don't like/want/fit into close sold at VS, go somewhere else. If there were no other options, I could the point of complaining. But there ARE plenty of other options.


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People are not "genetically fat". Sure, some people gain weight more easily due to a lower metabolism, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to be fat. They could eat healthily and still maintain an ideal healthy weight. Everyone can, barring debilitating medical or psychological issues..
Sigh.
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Old 06.02.2015, 12:55
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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Ok. So you're a "genetically thin guy", have a tendency to not put on weight... But people are not "genetically fat" or with a genetic tendency to put and keep weight on?
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Not weight (or rather fat) but muscle. There is a difference.

I'm the slim sort so couldn't look like Arnie even if I wanted to but that doesn't mean I can't put on fat.

My two brothers are the same build as me but they've both managed to put on fat (weight) since their childhood but I haven't.

I eat and drink less and take far more exercise than either of them.


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Women in general are genetically programmed to put on weight and keep it on. Men are not.
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So obese men are basically a bunch of girls?
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Old 06.02.2015, 12:55
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

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Old 06.02.2015, 12:59
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Re: Big girls need to suck it up

I have always advocated that foxes should be replaced by fatties*, the fatties are released, given a headstart, and then chased down by a pack of baying hounds and people on horses with sticks.

Obviously there will be casualties - a horse hitting a fatty for example - but culling the population will be good for the country as a whole.

I wish to make it clear that not all the fatties will be culled - some will make it to the end at which point they will already be fitter and healthier than they were at the start.





* You can replace fatties with gays, the homeless, the jobless, people on benefits, pikeys, Romanians, gingers or whichever group you feel like attacking
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