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Old 17.04.2015, 12:47
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Re: My head explodes at ... [Sächsilüüte-Böög-Exploding-Time-Guesses]

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Well instead of the horses running around and being slaughtered at this festival they could build something like a merry go round-and the kids would love it
What a GREAT suggestion ! Love it !
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  #22  
Old 17.04.2015, 13:21
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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It was FORCED to be there and was reported to have showed indications of being stressed and wanting to stop. It was forced to go on. Let the Kambel Zunft men run around the fire next year and I will happily whip them into doing there "job" !
So you promote the cruelty of humans? You must have been a slave overseer in a past life when the whipping of humans was acceptable. Your attitude is more disturbing than a horse dying a natural death.

I abhor the cruelty of any living thing but just because I don't share your gut reaction over the death of a horse doesn't make me a monster. Are you aware of how many people have died doing their job building football stadiums in Qatar? With many forced to work with no pay for months? Thousands. Why are you not demanding the banning of football?

As my fortune cookie message last night quoted 'Good intentions are useless in the absence of common sense'. Get a grip and look at the bigger picture.
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Old 17.04.2015, 14:40
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

the newest from this incident just came out http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/...-Tod--21024655

in English: basically they claim now the horse had heart issues and was not sedated (yea right, tell me any normal horse would go around that fire without sedation...). Apparently it had a 'nice and fast death' and with its 24 years also in the right age to die.
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Old 17.04.2015, 14:52
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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with its 24 years also in the right age to die.
And far too old to eat.

Meanwhile, horse-meat tacos tonight (really)!

Tom
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Old 17.04.2015, 15:36
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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So you promote the cruelty of humans?
Humans have a choice to participate in daft pageantry.

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I abhor the cruelty of any living thing but just because I don't share your gut reaction over the death of a horse doesn't make me a monster. Are you aware of how many people have died doing their job building football stadiums in Qatar? With many forced to work with no pay for months? Thousands. Why are you not demanding the banning of football?
Your analogy is silly. The OP is suggesting a specific event is cruel to horses and proposes to remove them from the event. You are suggesting that because one 'event' (building a stadium) is cruel to people, all football should be banned.
A reasonable comparison would be because building football stadia in Qatar is cruel to the workers, they shouldn't be using humans to build stadia there (or perhaps improving the workers' conditions), not the outright ban of all football/music/athletics that may happen to take part in stadia.

Logic head back on, emotional head to the side please, engage in a proper debate.
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Old 17.04.2015, 15:39
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

Yes it's a 'silly' analogy and a really bad comparison but so is freaking out at the death of a horse from natural causes.

Last edited by Glarus Girl; 17.04.2015 at 15:40. Reason: missed a word out
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  #27  
Old 17.04.2015, 15:46
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

Do you think Tesco got involved after the death?
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Old 17.04.2015, 15:52
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

I guy who I used to hang around with (but lost contact to unfortunately) trained horses for the army. He said a good trainer can bring a horse a long way in overcoming its natural fears. Horses are not used in war any more, but are still used on parades and such and need to stand to attention when guns are being fired in salutes. He said horses are intelligent and understand perfectly well that the guns are not going to harm them and in a situation like Sechseläuten, that they are galloping around the fire in safety and not into the fire.

But then you can't take any horse off the meadow and expect it to know these things. I do hope the Zünfte do select and train their horses according to their needs.
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Old 17.04.2015, 15:56
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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Yes it's a 'silly' analogy and a really bad comparison but so is freaking out at the death of a horse from natural causes.
There are natural causes and natural causes though.

If your grandad has a heart attack in old age, that's a natural cause. If he has a heart attack because i jump out of his cupboard brandishing a knife, it is still a natural cause, but you might feel a bit annoyed at me.
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  #30  
Old 17.04.2015, 15:57
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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So you promote the cruelty of humans? You must have been a slave overseer in a past life when the whipping of humans was acceptable. Your attitude is more disturbing than a horse dying a natural death.

I abhor the cruelty of any living thing but just because I don't share your gut reaction over the death of a horse doesn't make me a monster. Are you aware of how many people have died doing their job building football stadiums in Qatar? With many forced to work with no pay for months? Thousands. Why are you not demanding the banning of football?

As my fortune cookie message last night quoted 'Good intentions are useless in the absence of common sense'. Get a grip and look at the bigger picture.
That was tongue in cheek by our dear. Go visit England and practice it. I am against all cruelty, human or animal. I agree with you totally about Qatar. I am no huge fan of the commercializations of sports for that reason. The salaries, glam stadiums shine too much money in wrong places. Anytime one of these big sporting events take place street dogs are euthanized in large numbers . A bit off topic, sorry.
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  #31  
Old 17.04.2015, 16:01
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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Yes it's a 'silly' analogy and a really bad comparison but so is freaking out at the death of a horse from natural causes.
I am not freaking out. I am doing one better: volunteering with an organization that will be heading a very big protest. Apparently , I have lots of company in being freaked out by this tragic event.
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  #32  
Old 17.04.2015, 16:26
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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I guy who I used to hang around with (but lost contact to unfortunately) trained horses for the army. He said a good trainer can bring a horse a long way in overcoming its natural fears. Horses are not used in war any more, but are still used on parades and such and need to stand to attention when guns are being fired in salutes. He said horses are intelligent and understand perfectly well that the guns are not going to harm them and in a situation like Sechseläuten, that they are galloping around the fire in safety and not into the fire.

But then you can't take any horse off the meadow and expect it to know these things. I do hope the Zünfte do select and train their horses according to their needs.
Agree, you can train horses to a degree, but for this you also need to have their trust. Problem in this case is, that these Zünfte don't own horses but lease them from stables all over Switzerland. These Zünfter don't ride regularly during the year but just sit on a random horse they get for the Sechseleuten. The horses are also not trained for the fire situation, for parade and banging yes. I know people who have attended the Sechseleuten and from all of them you hear that at least 90% of the horses are tranquilized, exactly for the reason as that inexperienced people are on top of them in extreme situations. Army/police horses will have their 1-2 trusted persons who share with them all these dangerous situations and they grow together. Unfortunately this is not practiced for Sechseleuten.
Now don't ask me why a stable/horse owner agrees to this, there are multiple reasons for sure (tradition, money, you name it).
I would never dream of giving my horse to this festivity.
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  #33  
Old 17.04.2015, 16:33
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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I am not freaking out. I am doing one better: volunteering with an organization that will be heading a very big protest. Apparently , I have lots of company in being freaked out by this tragic event.
Would you mind sharing when, where and what the route is - I hate being stuck on a tram in one place for 45 mins just because a bunch of people have decided to block the city due to whatever little niggle they have that week
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Old 17.04.2015, 16:35
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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Would you mind sharing when, where and what the route is - I hate being stuck on a tram in one place for 45 mins just because a bunch of people have decided to block the city due to whatever little niggle they have that week
Are you suggesting these people should get off their high horse?
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Old 17.04.2015, 17:05
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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Are you suggesting these people should get off their high horse?
I'm not taking a blinkered view, but my response is a firm neigh.
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Old 17.04.2015, 17:20
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !



And speaking of horses having heart attacks, I'm always reminded of this:



Tom
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Old 17.04.2015, 17:45
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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Would you mind sharing when, where and what the route is - I hate being stuck on a tram in one place for 45 mins just because a bunch of people have decided to block the city due to whatever little niggle they have that week
45 minutes? Our trams are blocked for three days at a time because of stupid clown faced protesters, blowing their whistles and banging their bloody bongos
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Old 17.04.2015, 17:59
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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That was tongue in cheek by our dear. Go visit England and practice it.
If you are going to try and be sarky at least get it right...my dear!

You can't practice 'tongue in cheek' you're either amusing and insincere or not... your comment was just flippant.

It's a bit hard to visit a country you already live in but hey!

If horses were dying every single year at this festival it would be a completely different matter but they are not. It's still a knee jerk reaction as far as I am concerned but good luck with your quest.

Would this thread be here calling for a ban if the rider had died of a heart attack instead? Probably not.
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Old 17.04.2015, 18:40
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

well at least Australia is taking the right line against cruelty to animals

http://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/vermis...zkaenguru.html
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Old 17.04.2015, 20:22
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Re: The cruel side of Sechselauten-Horse dies of heart attack !

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I can see both sides of the argument here, however I don't think that Sechselauten is particularly cruel or hard on the horses - especially when you consider horse racing.

You say the horse was 25 years old. Well the average horse lifespan is 25-30 years old. So the biggest mistake here was putting such an old fellow into the event - not to mention that for a heart attack to occur there is almost always an underlying problem, which in this case, given the age of the horse, there was likely to have been.

Banning the horses in Sechselauten isn't the answer, but perhaps more care should be taken over considering the age and general health of the horses taking part.
A check by vets would be acceptable. A check that horses are OWNED by the riders would be acceptable. A ban on explosives in the BOOG would be acceptable. A check that these horses are trained specifically for this event and healthy enough to participate would be acceptable. That the horses are not drugged in order to deal with with the stress of the fire and explosions is acceptable. That horses died and were injured ( as well as some humans) THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE!
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