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  #101  
Old 01.05.2015, 17:58
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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Not always true. If i slam my brakes on for no reason and you run into the back of me, then it can turn very much against you.
I saw a cat run out in front of me, so I applied the breaks.

End of story.

Tom
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  #102  
Old 01.05.2015, 18:00
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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this is just nonsense.
I find Swiss and German drivers actually very tolerant but perhaps I'm used to a different standard.

I did NOT mention the NL
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  #103  
Old 01.05.2015, 18:19
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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Simple question since I didn't learn here, but are drivers taught about minimum stopping distances, keeping an appropriate distance at lights etc.. Or is it taught, but people just ignore it once they've passed?
The 2nd.
Drivers learn an approximated formula to calculate the distance it takes to stop.

To calculate distance need for a stop on a dry and even road there are two parts:
i) distance covered until the driver reacts is speed times three divided by ten (v*3/10)
iia) normal braking distance is speed divided by ten, squared (v/10*v/10)
iib) an emergency brake/stop takes half the normal braking distance (v/10*v/10*1/2)

Minimum distance:
2 seconds. Or half the speed in meters (eg. you drive 100km/h so distance should be 50m), up to 100km/h speed. Don't remember what's used for higher speeds.

The minimum distance requirement also gives a simple way to broadly assess the maximum car capacity per lane, provided there are no trucks (I like to dream sometimes):
One hour has 3600 seconds, with 2secs distance a car passes every other second, thus lane capacity is 3600/2 or 1800cars/hour per lane. This calculation ignores car length, which is ok for +100km/h as the car covers about 30m/sec or more.
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  #104  
Old 01.05.2015, 18:26
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I always loved driving in Italy and on Malta -- just my stile
Having just returned from 2 weeks driving in Sicily hmmm, not sure I can agree... aggressive and no rules indeed.
Saw 1 mum driving around a roundabout at peak time last night, holding a baby around her neck too!

Mind you, we witnessed some pretty stupid driving on the MWay near Geneva this morning- cars driving far too fast in heavy rain following far too close... and 1 tw*t in fast lane right up to another car with his head down ... texting on his phone didn't get a chance to ask for his nationality though!
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  #105  
Old 01.05.2015, 19:54
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I saw a cat run out in front of me, so I applied the breaks.

End of story.

Tom
Warning: You can get a hefty fine for that. That's the real end of the story.

You can get fined even for swerving in order to avoid a full-grown deer in your lane resulting in a collision with another vehicle. That excuse is just not accepted by courts.

Rule, based on many sentences: If ever there is a sudden obstacle like an animal, box of Bordeaux bottles or whatever in front of you which most likely will not kill you if hit, you have to hit it unless avoiding it does not bear any risk at all to other road users.

Hitting the brakes because of a tailgater, even just tapping them can be taken as a dangerous maneuvre ("Schikane-Bremsung" = harrassment braking) and can get you in deep sh*t if caught.

A close relative of mine got fined for avoiding a kid that fell of his bike right in front of his car. The swerve caused a dent on a car in the opposite lane. He got fined for "Nichtbeherrschen des Fahrzeuges" (lack of command over one's vehicle), despite the fact that he saved the kid's life.
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Last edited by Captain Greybeard; 01.05.2015 at 20:35. Reason: Stupid typo, what else? Why am I not using a spell checker, silly?
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  #106  
Old 01.05.2015, 21:15
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

I just use my hazards if someone is driving aggressively behind me (e.g trying and failing to undertake and tailgating). I suppose that's against the law too
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  #107  
Old 01.05.2015, 21:17
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I just use my hazards if someone is driving aggressively behind me (e.g trying and failing to undertake and tailgating). I suppose that's against the law too
Yes, it is.

Tom
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  #108  
Old 01.05.2015, 22:05
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

What ever possible arguments of tapping brakes/braking because of accidents etc if someone hits you from behind they were too close and that's 99% of the accidents I see here and the result is the same regardless of the cause.
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  #109  
Old 01.05.2015, 23:32
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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What ever possible arguments of tapping brakes/braking because of accidents etc if someone hits you from behind they were too close and that's 99% of the accidents I see here and the result is the same regardless of the cause.
I think in general if you are worried about what people are doing behind you, you are either not driving in the correct lane or at the appropriate speed for the given condition.

If someone is still driving very close behind you, then it is them who has the problem. I wouldn't be tapping the brakes or putting on fog lights or anything like that, but turning on your sprayers may get the message across if you feel you need to

In general, I think driving in Switzerland is ridiculously easy and drivers can seem aggressive but I would think of it more as decisiveness and good driving.

Lane discipline on the motorways is generally very good and far superior to Ireland where people constantly hog the overtaking lanes to the point that the regular driving lane is virtually empty.

You never hear beeping which is incredible, people are generally very patient.

A few pet peeves however. People seem to forget how to drive once they get into a car park

Indicating seems to be somewhat optional, particularly at roundabouts. Certainly entering roundabouts, people rarely indicate.

Otherwise, great country to drive in
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  #110  
Old 01.05.2015, 23:55
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I saw a cat run out in front of me, so I applied the breaks.

End of story.

Tom
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Warning: You can get a hefty fine for that.
I wish, but sadly even such diabolical liberties with spelling go largely unpunished these days.
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  #111  
Old 02.05.2015, 00:06
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

I was told in all seriousness from a Swiss friend, yes i do have a few now. Apparently the Swiss have studied traffic flows to the point that they have determined that if people do not cut in front of you quickly to get into the flow all traffic would come to a standstill. I kid you not!

What I don't get is this. Often I'm going along at the speed limit in the right hand lane, then someone suddenly appears behind me and quickly overtakes me while then also suddenly cutting me off without hardly any space between our 2 cars often close to clipping my front left bumper.
When I look in my rear view mirror there is often no one pushing them out of the fast left hand lane so they clearly have enough time to make the pass in a safe and respectful manner and change the lane when I'm well in the view of their side or rear view mirror. That's how I was taught to change lanes in defensive driving classes. The way I often experience drivers here and in France and Italy too it seems to be an unexplainable pent up display of a weird passive/aggressive behavior that perhaps can't expressed elsewhere. Perhaps I had too far much space learning to drive in Canada.
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  #112  
Old 02.05.2015, 03:09
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I just use my hazards if ...
What's that? Warnblinker? (the yellow both-sides blinkers)
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  #113  
Old 02.05.2015, 03:18
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I just use my hazards if someone is driving aggressively behind me (e.g trying and failing to undertake and tailgating). I suppose that's against the law too
What's that? Warnblinker? (the yellow both-sides blinkers)
Yes, short for hazard (warning) lights / hazard (warning) flashers.
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  #114  
Old 02.05.2015, 07:31
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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I think in general if you are worried about what people are doing behind you, you are either not driving in the correct lane or at the appropriate speed for the given condition.

If someone is still driving very close behind you, then it is them who has the problem. I wouldn't be tapping the brakes or putting on fog lights or anything like that, but turning on your sprayers may get the message across if you feel you need to

In general, I think driving in Switzerland is ridiculously easy and drivers can seem aggressive but I would think of it more as decisiveness and good driving.

Lane discipline on the motorways is generally very good and far superior to Ireland where people constantly hog the overtaking lanes to the point that the regular driving lane is virtually empty.

You never hear beeping which is incredible, people are generally very patient.

A few pet peeves however. People seem to forget how to drive once they get into a car park

Indicating seems to be somewhat optional, particularly at roundabouts. Certainly entering roundabouts, people rarely indicate.

Otherwise, great country to drive in
I'm not bothered at all if someone is right up behind.. I continue as normal, and no I am not sitting in the outside lane at 115 120 or 130.

As for lane discipline the only reason it's fairly ok here is because of 2 lanes.. anywhere there is 3 lanes the inside lane is virtually devoid of traffic..majority move straight away to the middle lane .. afraid of the car eating verge monster maybe?

As for roundabout indicating in guess you are unaware of the requirements to indicate as you leave not enter.
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  #115  
Old 02.05.2015, 12:28
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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As for roundabout indicating in guess you are unaware of the requirements to indicate as you leave not enter.
Correct, but the number of drivers that do not indicate their intention to leave, thus making you wait at the entrance feeling downright stupid, is amazing. One little movement of one finger would make it all clear, but they are too lazy or simply don't care. Annoying!
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  #116  
Old 02.05.2015, 13:48
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

Not going to comment on the standard of driving here (need to watch my blood-pressure), but I'll just add that few drivers seem to understand that you don't have any right of way over a vehicle which is in front of you - even if it's in another lane.
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  #117  
Old 02.05.2015, 18:04
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

I was driving to Meilen on that 60km road, one lane only. I was on the limit 60 63 and a guy comes crazy behind me try to overtake then start to high light I just slow down and pull right and let the moron go.
Just to find out that 300m ahead he turns left and leave the main road lol

What an idiot I would not even like to think what I would have done if I was in a bad mood lol
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  #118  
Old 02.05.2015, 18:43
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

Yeah, one of my pet peeves too, but I'm old enough to just laugh off that kind of stupidity no matter what mood I am in.
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  #119  
Old 02.05.2015, 21:09
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

Maybe he just realises that 60 on the speedo isn't 60 in real life and wants to drive at 60?
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  #120  
Old 02.05.2015, 23:05
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Re: Why such aggressive drivers?

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As for roundabout indicating in guess you are unaware of the requirements to indicate as you leave not enter.
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Correct, but the number of drivers that do not indicate their intention to leave, thus making you wait at the entrance feeling downright stupid, is amazing. One little movement of one finger would make it all clear, but they are too lazy or simply don't care. Annoying!
I've no problem with them not indicating to leave, which seems to be about 50% the norm, but when coming round a roundabout with an exit at >180deg to your entrance it's somewhat more than good practice to indicate left until you pass the exist before the one you're taking - I had a couple of close calls at one particular one, when it first opened, with cars not signalling at all, and the (crap) road layout meant their intentions were far from clear.

IAM/UK Police guidelines are to indicate right (in the UK) for any exit that's more than 180 deg from your entrance road.
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