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  #21  
Old 28.04.2015, 14:34
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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...He is getting a full refund - store credit for the full amount he paid. ...
A full refund is not the same as a store credit. They have not fulfilled their legal obligations. A refund is a refund - cash, to credit card or directly into bank account.
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  #22  
Old 28.04.2015, 16:50
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

PC's fall in price very rapidly....... Hardly surprising he got a credit note amazing for the original price
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  #23  
Old 28.04.2015, 17:13
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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The vendor is replacing the faulty laptop by offering you in house purchase of whatever item you want for the price you've paid for the faulty article. Very fair.
it's not their fault that you bought another laptop at some other place.
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He is getting a full refund - store credit for the full amount he paid.
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They have offered him a refund Tom, it's a brand new replacement article for free.
They have fulfilled their legal obligation.
Every evening thousands of Swiss shopkeepers go to bed, thanking their god(s)/FSM/<insert other higher entity of your choice> for clients like you.

I don't know about you, but I do not purchase any product in a shop to secure a certain revenue for the shop. I purchase a product in order to get a working product. If it does not work I am entitled to my legal rights and see no need to accept a voucher. If this shop is not in a position to supply me with a non-faulty product I take my business elsewhere.
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  #24  
Old 28.04.2015, 19:48
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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ps. unless it was a display or used item; but even here the warranty is one year: https://www.ch.ch/en/warranty/

pps. reading deeper there's very clear guidance here: https://www.konsum.admin.ch/en/faq/1...arranty/#c1235

Went down to the shop today and printed basically what you linked, as attached below. Gave the paper to the sales assistant. He went into the room where the supervisor and the branch manager have their desk. There weren't many people in the store. Usually the supervisor responds promptly and get's out within 20 seconds but this time it took him more like 10 min. Finally he got out and game me an Army Salute (...) and emphasized calling me 'Sir'. And said ''If you would like to follow me please to the checkout. Better go upstairs this one doesn't have enough money. ''


This sounded too good to be true. After more than 80 hours of laptop troubleshooting, calling, writing emails, waiting in line at the post office, speaking to shop employees over the course of 5+ months now...getting MY money back felt like a surreal experience...


[ Going back to: the checkout counter with sufficient cash hopefully ]


The supervisor started checking all the papers he has received from me over the course of 5 months. There were quite a few. And then it came:


''I will need your Coop SuperCard... You used a Supercard when purchasing the laptop''.


And I see price appearing on his monitor that says CHF 1099. While I purchased the machine for CHF 1199.


''These are your papers right?'' , he says


'' Yes my name is on it.'' , I said


'' Do you have a receipt? Because you made the purchase with a SuperCard it says. ''


''The receipt was given to a shop assistant at this branch in the past and he made a copy of it. And I don't even know what a SuperCard is '' , I said


He started going through the papers again briefly. And then he opened the cash drawer and started to put money on the table. I was drooling mentally.


Once the entire amount was on the table I grabbed it tightly. Signed the refund papers. And finally before departing asked the man:


'' I regularly buy product here. Just recently: headphones and an SSD for example. Why does this have to be so difficult? ''


He said : '' Well you know Asus. They didn't agree on giving you a refund. But with enough papers like you have given me now. We can make something work. ''







[ I actually did ask Asus for a refund after the 4th repair. But they stopped replying to my emails. Same as InterDiscount ]


Wanted to thank everybody for trying to help. Especially newtoswitz
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  #25  
Old 28.04.2015, 20:47
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Excellent! This thread is a great example of the forum working well.

Well done to NewToSwitz for his link to the regs.
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  #26  
Old 29.04.2015, 13:23
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Congrats

You're lucky the salespeople don't know what they're doing, Interdiscount terms&conditions exclude refund. There's a fat chance that the exclusion is legal.

The solution?
Don't buy from Interdiscount. Simples.
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  #27  
Old 29.04.2015, 13:56
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Great, glad it worked out .

Although they can exclude refund in the first instance, I believe the point of the clause he used is that they can't exclude the statutory requirement to actually complete the repair properly within good time.

So if they mess up the repair, or take too long, the refund becomes a statutory right rather than just a default warranty position that can be amended.
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  #28  
Old 29.04.2015, 14:33
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Nope, there's no fallback.

Interdiscount T&C say that the costomer only has the right to repair or replacement, and that it's Interdiscount who decides what's going to happen.
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  #29  
Old 29.04.2015, 14:53
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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Nope, there's no fallback.
Did you read the document on the consumer affairs bureau site that this is about?

They clearly state there is a fallback - if the shop fails to do the repair, they are in breach of contract and the buyer can demand their money back.

No clause in the T&C could override a legal responsibility to deliver a usable product, which is effectively the contract for any consumer purchase.
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  #30  
Old 29.04.2015, 15:17
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

I accidentally let out a loud 'YES' after reading OP's last post.
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  #31  
Old 29.04.2015, 16:00
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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No clause in the T&C could override a legal responsibility to deliver a usable product, which is effectively the contract for any consumer purchase.
I didn't say anything to the contrary. Next time try to understand what you read.
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Did you read the document on the consumer affairs bureau site that this is about?

They clearly state there is a fallback - if the shop fails to do the repair, they are in breach of contract and the buyer can demand their money back.
Reading is not enough, understanding is key. Let me spell it out point by point:

The paragraph headed "repair .. unsuccessful" in the admin.ch paper relies on the right to cancel the contract provided by the law.

The only part of the law that can't be overriden by any contract is the 2-year warranty duration.

Interdiscount uses the possibility to override the law extensively and excludes the right to cancel the contract, which renders the "repair ... unsuccessful" paragraph irrelevant. Thus a voucher (with reasonable duration) is the best OP had a right to.

Just FYI:
The law only mentions cancellation, price reduction and replacement. Repair is not mentioned in the law, it's an addition/extension by the sellers. In that sense the admin.ch page is bogus as it assumes terms that, though very commonplace, aren't even mentioned in the law and thus must not be assumed present unconditionally. The author of the admin.ch page should ask the author of the ch.ch for help, perhaps a few lessons.

Edit:
Repeat after me:
Interdiscount excludes the right to cancel the contract.

Last edited by Urs Max; 29.04.2015 at 16:46.
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  #32  
Old 29.04.2015, 16:03
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

If you feel like selling your 1200chf voucher for 800, send me a msg.
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  #33  
Old 29.04.2015, 16:18
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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Just FYI:
The law only mentions cancellation, price reduction and replacement. Repair is not mentioned in the law, it's an addition/extension by the sellers. In that sense the admin.ch page is bogus as it assumes terms that, though very commonplace, aren't even mentioned in the law and thus must not be assumed present unconditionally. The author of the admin.ch page should ask the author of the ch.ch for help, perhaps a few lessons.
Not really, it's just that only looking at one term doesn't give the whole picture and the law is rather complex with many levels. You have to first get through the warranty agreement, then use basic contract law.

However, it's all there on the site, the contract part is https://www.konsum.admin.ch/en/faq/9...ervices/#c1226

9. What can I do if a contractual partner fails to provide the expected services?

According to Article 102 of the Swiss Code of Obligations (CO), where an obligation is due for performance, the debtor is in default as soon as they receive a formal reminder from the creditor. A reminder is not required where a time limit for performance of the obligation has been set in the contract. Once a reminder is sent, the debtor must be given an appropriate time limit within which to fulfil their obligation. If the debtor defaults again at this time, the creditor has the right to withdraw from the contract (Art. 107 para. 2 CO). They must notify the debtor of this without delay.
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  #34  
Old 29.04.2015, 16:58
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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... There's a fat chance that the exclusion is legal...
Do you mean a good chance or no chance? You see, if someone asks me to do something and I answer "fat chance" that means I'm not going to do it. The phrase in English English is always used ironically/sarcastically.

If the former, then you're saying that clause in the T&C's is probably legally enforceable (which your subsequent posts seem to imply), in which case you should use "good chance". If the latter, then your subsequent posts are somewhat confusing.

Clarification would be welcome.
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  #35  
Old 01.05.2015, 11:27
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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Do you mean a good chance or no chance? You see, if someone asks me to do something and I answer "fat chance" that means I'm not going to do it. The phrase in English English is always used ironically/sarcastically.

If the former, then you're saying that clause in the T&C's is probably legally enforceable (which your subsequent posts seem to imply), in which case you should use "good chance". If the latter, then your subsequent posts are somewhat confusing.

Clarification would be welcome.
Thanks for the heads-up, and the free lesson

I meant "it's probably legal", so indeed I should have used "good chance" instead.

Perhaps a mod could correct the error?
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  #36  
Old 01.05.2015, 11:59
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

For these kind of purposes, I started using Protekta (in 2010) which provides assistance for legal cases. You simply send them an e-mail with the documents that you have and then they handle the case. The annual charge that I pay is CHF 350; I would say one of the best investments that I have made.

Here's the link to their website: http://www.protekta.ch/index_fr.html

I am sure there are many companies like Protekta in Switzerland, it proves much easier (and effective!! - by experience) to have a lawyer speak on behalf of you.
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  #37  
Old 08.05.2015, 18:45
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Companies here routinely restrict their liability for warranty remedies in their terms and conditions. This is legal. BUT - and it's a big but - it's only valid if you are informed of this clearly, and BEFORE the sale. Legal precedent here has held that a small sign posted by the register or the fine print on the receipt do NOT meet these requirements and thus are legally invalid. That's why strolling in with a copy of the law worked: They knew they couldn't weasel their way out of it, because they know you know your rights, and they know their rules don't hold up.
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  #38  
Old 09.05.2015, 12:44
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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For these kind of purposes, I started using Protekta (in 2010) which provides assistance for legal cases. You simply send them an e-mail with the documents that you have and then they handle the case. The annual charge that I pay is CHF 350; I would say one of the best investments that I have made.

Here's the link to their website: http://www.protekta.ch/index_fr.html

I am sure there are many companies like Protekta in Switzerland, it proves much easier (and effective!! - by experience) to have a lawyer speak on behalf of you.
Each to his own. For me, this wouldn't meet the any of the three reasons for buying insurance:

1. It's required by law.
2. You know something about the risk that the insurer doesn't.
3. You can't afford to pay the insured costs yourself.
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  #39  
Old 10.05.2015, 00:26
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

The konsum website did say that if repairs were unsuccessful (4 attempts is pretty damned unsuccessful in my eyes) then you have the right to say the contract is cancelled and demand a refund of the sales price.

Unfortunately, if you accepted a voucher as compensation for the product, you formally entered a new agreement with the store and this is now binding.

If you didn't yet accept the voucher and still have the defective item, however, take it back again. If it's not the manager you're speaking with, say you want to speak with the manager. Make sure to take a printout of the konsum page with you, as previously said, with relevant info highlighted, preferably in the local language that you're in - the manager might not know english.

Usually when returning a product they cannot just offer you a voucher. As is the case with many countries, specifically the UK coming to mind with PC World/Currys - they may try to fob you off in the hope that you're not legally knowledgable about your rights - especially if they detect you're not a national of switzerland by your accent etc. Every time I have had something break, I have sent it back to the manufacturer for repair which they have always gladly done, and failing that the store has refunded my money or the manufacturer issued a replacement themselves.

I recently bought a Cuisinart Sandwich Maker from netto shop for example. The handle snapped off and I contacted netto shop. They told me to send it to Cerjo in Delemont. Contacted Cerjo (the manufacturer of Cuisinart) and they told me they'd happily replace it. Just waiting now. This was a reasonable request to send to manufacturer because it saves the retailer money and honestly, retailers generally sell so much stuff you wouldn't even want them opening your devices anyway as they don't really know what they're doing. PC World can't even clean a laptop fan of dust when you take it in for overheating! lol
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Old 10.05.2015, 18:26
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Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

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Companies here routinely restrict their liability for warranty remedies in their terms and conditions. This is legal. BUT - and it's a big but - it's only valid if you are informed of this clearly, and BEFORE the sale. Legal precedent here has held that a small sign posted by the register or the fine print on the receipt do NOT meet these requirements and thus are legally invalid. That's why strolling in with a copy of the law worked: They knew they couldn't weasel their way out of it, because they know you know your rights, and they know their rules don't hold up.
Interesting. Got some reference?
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