Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 11.05.2015, 13:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 659
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 495 Times in 260 Posts
tooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputation
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

It's my summary of what I saw in many K-tipp articles and Kassensturz episodes over the years. I'll see if I can find something.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11.05.2015, 16:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nyon
Posts: 1,823
Groaned at 61 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,118 Times in 831 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

1200.- to spend on a laptop.

Should have gone to the Apple store
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11.05.2015, 22:24
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 698
Groaned at 32 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 677 Times in 310 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
Interesting. Got some reference?
Would be interested in that too as all evidence I've seen points to the opposite.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11.05.2015, 22:33
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 698
Groaned at 32 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 677 Times in 310 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post

• The repair by the seller is unsuccessful:

If the seller is unable to repair the goods within a certain time limit because the repair proves impossible or unsuccessful, the buyer can give notice to the seller that the contract is cancelled, i.e. by returning the purchased goods and demanding a refund of the purchase price.
Do you have the OR article that supports this ? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11.05.2015, 23:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 659
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 495 Times in 260 Posts
tooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputation
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
Would be interested in that too as all evidence I've seen points to the opposite.
Here's one reference:
Quote:
Allgemeine Geschäfts- oder Garantiebedingungen (AGB) sind nur Vertragsbestandteil, wenn ihnen der Kunde zugestimmt hat. Er muss Gelegenheit bekommen, sie vor dem Kauf zur Kenntnis zu nehmen. Wenn AGB erst auf der Quittung oder auf einem nachträglich abgegebenen Garantieschein notiert sind, sind sie für den Kunden unverbindlich.
This says: "General terms and conditions (GTCs) only become a part of a contract if the customer agrees to them. He must have an opportunity to acknowledge them before the purchase. If GTCs are only written on the receipt or on a warranty card provided after the fact, then they are not binding for the customer."
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank tooki for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 11.05.2015, 23:49
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Liechtenstein
Posts: 99
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
gurahamu89 is considered unworthygurahamu89 is considered unworthygurahamu89 is considered unworthy
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
Here's one reference:


This says: "General terms and conditions (GTCs) only become a part of a contract if the customer agrees to them. He must have an opportunity to acknowledge them before the purchase. If GTCs are only written on the receipt or on a warranty card provided after the fact, then they are not binding for the customer."
Indeed. Many retailer's cases have fallen apart worldwide based on the fact that it was found out they hadn't advertised special T&C as being a part of the sale beforehand - such as with a sign above the kasse or by the cashier actually telling you so. Argos in England specifically make sure to mention that items are excluded from the 14-day money back guarantee for example - because if they didn't, they'd have no leg to stand on. This is just one example.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12.05.2015, 09:43
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 698
Groaned at 32 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 677 Times in 310 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
Here's one reference:


This says: "General terms and conditions (GTCs) only become a part of a contract if the customer agrees to them. He must have an opportunity to acknowledge them before the purchase. If GTCs are only written on the receipt or on a warranty card provided after the fact, then they are not binding for the customer."
Interesting, but where is the legal ruling that supports this? And as far as I see, this contradicts the rule about Kaufverträge in OR 11. Granted I could be interpreting it wrong, that's why I'd like to see a case where a judge upheld this view.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12.05.2015, 12:37
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Liechtenstein
Posts: 99
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
gurahamu89 is considered unworthygurahamu89 is considered unworthygurahamu89 is considered unworthy
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
Interesting, but where is the legal ruling that supports this? And as far as I see, this contradicts the rule about Kaufverträge in OR 11. Granted I could be interpreting it wrong, that's why I'd like to see a case where a judge upheld this view.
It's on page 2 of the article tooki linked to under Garentie: Die Tipps.

Here is the full thing:

Quote:
Prüfen Sie insbesondere bei kostspieligen Anschaffungen, welche Garantierechte der Verkäufer gewährt. Wenn er Sie an die Hersteller verweist, fragen Sie nach, welcher Hersteller dafür bekannt ist, dass er Mängelrügen speditiv und kundenfreundlich abwickelt.

Anbieter dürfen die Garantiefrist 
im Konsumentenvertrag nicht verkürzen, sie können die Garantie aber ganz ausschliessen. Lehnen Sie einen solchen Ausschluss ab oder wechseln Sie für die Anschaffung zur kundenfreundlichen Konkurrenz.

Allgemeine Geschäfts- oder Garantiebedingungen (AGB) sind nur Vertragsbestandteil, wenn ihnen der Kunde zugestimmt hat. Er muss Gelegenheit bekommen, sie vor dem Kauf zur Kenntnis zu nehmen. Wenn AGB erst auf der Quittung oder auf einem nachträglich abgegebenen Garantieschein notiert sind, sind sie für den Kunden unverbindlich.

Wichtig ist die Quittung für den Kunden aber, um den Kauf als solchen beweisen zu können, wenn er einen Garantieanspruch stellt.

Das Gesetz verpflichtet den Käufer, einen Mangel sofort zu melden. Wer mit der Mängelrüge zuwartet, verliert unter Umständen seine Mängelrechte. Hinweis: Eine Mängelrüge unterbricht die Garantiefrist nicht.

Der Käufer trägt die Beweislast, 
dass der Defekt am Gerät ein Garantiemangel ist.

Wenn AGB keine entsprechende 
Einschränkung enthalten, muss man keine Gutschrift akzeptieren, sondern kann das Geld bar zurückverlangen.

Je nach Kaufvertrag gilt die neue zweijährige Frist auch für Waren, die bereits vor dem 1. Januar 2013 gekauft wurden. Voraussetzung ist aber, dass die (alte) Frist Ende 2012 noch nicht abgelaufen war.

Private, die unter sich kaufen und verkaufen, können die Garantiefrist beliebig regeln.
In english:
  • Check your rights when buying anything of value. If they mention that complaints etc. have to be dealt with by the manufacturer, obtain details on how to resolve complaints or repairs etc in case you should need that info.
  • Retailers are not allowed to shorten guarantee periods, but they may exclude them entirely at the point of sale. providing conditions are met, i.e. that you are warned before purchase or if the product is part of a competition etc.
  • Business T&C only apply if the customer is made aware of them clearly prior to sale. Notification on a receipt or warranty certificate are not valid and legally binding in reducing/nullifying a guarantee. This is because a warranty certificate or receipt are produced after money is exchanged, ergo the seller has failed to notify before the sale
  • It is important for the customer to produce a receipt or warranty certificate to prove the purchase. If buying a product second-hand that is still a recent model, always request purchase receipt and/or guarantee certificate with it to ensure support eligability.
  • The buyer has to report a defect in their product as soon as it becomes apparent. Delays in error reporting could result in nullified guarantee. This is obvious because if you fail to report it immediately, defects could worsen and in the event a repair cannot be completed, it could be argued you caused the defect to become irrepairable.
  • The buyer has to prove that the fault is a manufacturing defect and not caused by themselves. A tricky one since opening the product would void the warrenty immediately. I think this would go mainly on trust and proof that there has been no tampering.
  • If conditions aren't restricting, then the buyer has to accept any sort of credit offered, but may accept cash if offered. It seems you can fight for cash back but they don't legally have to meet your demands and just give you store credit, however in most cases they would just offer a replacement first if the same product is still available.
  • Depending on the purchase agreement, items bought before 1st January 2013 (when the 2 year guarantee law came into effect) may be covered if the initial guarantee had not ended by the end of 2012.
  • Private buyers and sellers (i.e. sellers on ebay, ricardo, tutti etc.) can regulate their own guarantee terms - especially important if the sold item isn't sold with a guarantee, such as a still-covered electronic item.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at gurahamu89 for this post:
  #49  
Old 12.05.2015, 15:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 659
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 495 Times in 260 Posts
tooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputationtooki has an excellent reputation
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
If conditions aren't restricting, then the buyer has to accept any sort of credit offered, but may accept cash if offered. It seems you can fight for cash back but they don't legally have to meet your demands and just give you store credit, however in most cases they would just offer a replacement first if the same product is still available.
That's a totally incorrect translation. The German text says:

Unless so restricted in the General Terms and Conditions, you do not need to accept store credit, and instead can demand a cash refund.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank tooki for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 13.05.2015, 00:06
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 698
Groaned at 32 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 677 Times in 310 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
It's on page 2 of the article tooki linked to under Garentie: Die Tipps.


All fine and good but I was asking for which legal article or court ruling they are basing this on.

Edit: When I say article I mean, legal article as in the german Artikel not an article on some website.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 13.05.2015, 14:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,020
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,744 Times in 1,935 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
All fine and good but I was asking for which legal article or court ruling they are basing this on.

Edit: When I say article I mean, legal article as in the german Artikel not an article on some website.
Same. Plus, references to rulings by the Federal Court.

Presumably Beobachter relies on UWG §8 (Bundesgesetz gegen unlauteren Wettbewerb), but it's overhauled a few years ago, I found only one Federal Court ruling.

For instance, §8 is basically a copy of its EU counterpart, but contrary to EU there's no blacklist, thus it begs the question which actions on the EU blacklist are not covered by the swiss paragraph. And what is an "erhebliches und ungerechtfertigtes Missverhältnis"? E.g. does denial of "Wandelung" qualify?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 28.05.2015, 20:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Lugano
Posts: 3
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mbjoer has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

This chain is to be avoided.

My overall experience is that they sell cheap stuff very expensively, and I have today had a similarly bad experience to the one the OP mentions.

I bought a travel adapter from them (price CHF 46 - A similar one at Easy Jet costs €15). However when I needed it, it turned out that it could not take a standard UK plug.

I went back to have it changed, but they did not have one that functioned with the UK plug.
So asked for the money back, only to be told that they would not do so, as it was more than 2 days (!!) ago that I bought it (On the invoice it states 24 months warranty, no mentioning of a 2 day limit).

Please, for your own sake, stay away.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at mbjoer for this post:
  #53  
Old 28.05.2015, 23:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,642
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,549 Times in 3,211 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interdiscount: ''Spend CHF 1200 out of your own pocket within 7 days''

Quote:
View Post
This chain is to be avoided.

My overall experience is that they sell cheap stuff very expensively, and I have today had a similarly bad experience to the one the OP mentions.

I bought a travel adapter from them (price CHF 46 - A similar one at Easy Jet costs €15). However when I needed it, it turned out that it could not take a standard UK plug.

I went back to have it changed, but they did not have one that functioned with the UK plug.
So asked for the money back, only to be told that they would not do so, as it was more than 2 days (!!) ago that I bought it (On the invoice it states 24 months warranty, no mentioning of a 2 day limit).

Please, for your own sake, stay away.
What does it have to do with warranty?
Changing a product because you bought the wrong product is very different than a warranty case.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WANTED : Furnished apartment in Zurich from 15th August, 900 chf to 1200 chf per mont Shell Property wanted 5 30.04.2011 01:45
Visa within 14 days of arrival? BrianClose Permits/visas/government 2 10.03.2011 20:55
How much of your salary do you spend on housing? Isambard Mews Housing in general 19 12.05.2009 21:40
Cancellation of service within a week if <100 CHF only? borntough Complaints corner 1 22.04.2008 11:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0