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  #221  
Old 14.04.2015, 10:50
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Swiss rudeness is wearing me down.

I've had a number of encounters of rudeness since living here. Most I brush aside and accept as "cultural difference" but yesterday I blew my lid.

I was with my 4 year old daughter browsing the soft drinks shelf at Zug SBB's Co-Op. Then out of nowhere a woman behind me started ranting at me because my daughter and I were in her way. Normally in this situation (which isn't rare) I'd be subservient and just move out of the way without any fuss.....this time I blew it. Asking where here concept of politeness was, and what's wrong with an "Entschuldigung bitte" The shop fell silent, people paused their shopping with their jaws dropped....staff stopped stacking shelves. The woman didn't like being challenged, she gave no verbal response but simply pushed me out of the way.

Co-Op staff and customers looked on in shock, though thankfully shared my disgust. The sad thing is this kind of incident isn't isolated....I've given the benefit of the doubt too many times...it's clear there is a thread running through Swiss culture, particularly amongst the elder generation that gives them some automatic entitlement to show zero respect or courtesy.

There is some hope. The young Swiss seem to be far more courteous and tolerant.
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  #222  
Old 14.04.2015, 11:01
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

It's not just elderly swiss that are rude.. I find it a lot in UK also. If I have someone like that or hovering I just stand there and refuse to move.
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  #223  
Old 14.04.2015, 12:32
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Thanks Mod for bumping my new post into an existing/ancient thread on "Swiss Rudeness"

I was hoping to get a bit of moral support from other people, but as the post is now buried away, hardly anyone is actually seeing it or giving their feedback.
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  #224  
Old 14.04.2015, 12:40
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Thanks Mod for bumping my new post into an existing/ancient thread on "Swiss Rudeness"

I was hoping to get a bit of moral support from other people, but as the post is now buried away, hardly anyone is actually seeing it or giving their feedback.
Don't be daft. Many of us use the "new posts" link. And anyone going to the forum directly sees there's been new activity.

The reason why there's no courtesy is that there isn't a word for it in German. Not really. There's a few words that are kind of like it, but none that encompass the entire concept. I suspect that many elderly people appear so grumpy simply as an outworking of their fear. Apparently it's a bit crap being old. Cut them a bit of slack; their world has changed and become big and frightening with weirdo scary foreigners all around...
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  #225  
Old 14.04.2015, 13:46
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Thanks Mod for bumping my new post into an existing/ancient thread on "Swiss Rudeness"

I was hoping to get a bit of moral support from other people, but as the post is now buried away, hardly anyone is actually seeing it or giving their feedback.
It seems rudeness isn't limited to the Swiss.

If you'd searched for and used the existing (still recently active) thread then you wouldn't have had your post moved.
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  #226  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:17
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Rudeness is having my post moved without the courtesy to even tell me.

I'm not someone who spends their life on English Forum...I'm part of the target audience, Joe Average who dips in and out occasionally as a support tool for living the expat life in Switzerland. I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with the rule book that states I should always search on a subject first before making a post.
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  #227  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:20
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

There, there.

Will that do it for you?

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.....I was hoping to get a bit of moral support from other people, but as the post is now buried away, hardly anyone is actually seeing it or giving their feedback.
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  #228  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:33
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Rudeness is having my post moved without the courtesy to even tell me.
You should have received an email on your registered email telling you.

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I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with the rule book that states I should always search on a subject first before making a post.
It's part of the terms and conditions. Guidelines for posting to englishforum.ch

You had a post moved. You feel (incorrectly in my view) that this would reduce the attention you'd get. But nobody died.
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  #229  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:34
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Thanks Mod for bumping my new post into an existing/ancient thread on "Swiss Rudeness"

I was hoping to get a bit of moral support from other people, but as the post is now buried away, hardly anyone is actually seeing it or giving their feedback.
Saw it.
Feedback: chill
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  #230  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:35
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Rudeness is having my post moved without the courtesy to even tell me.

I'm not someone who spends their life on English Forum...I'm part of the target audience, Joe Average who dips in and out occasionally as a support tool for living the expat life in Switzerland. I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with the rule book that states I should always search on a subject first before making a post.
Check your private messages. Whenever a mod manipulated my posts I got a popup when I next came online, telling me I had a new message, presumably that applies for merging threads as well. The popups may be blocked by your browser settings, by your board settings, and probably by other means as well.

(waiting for spangleys complaint why nobody told him how to use the control panel)
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  #231  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:58
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Re: Swiss rudeness is wearing me down.

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I was with my 4 year old daughter browsing the soft drinks shelf at Zug SBB's Co-Op. Then out of nowhere a woman behind me started ranting at me because my daughter and I were in her way.
Some foreigner, no doubt.

Tom
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  #232  
Old 14.04.2015, 15:20
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

I have been living in Switzerland (french part) for over a year now and I am still trying to get used to some of the manners. But, I believe that I am starting to understand their way of thinking and trying to accomodate to their demands. However, it still strikes me when they reply in a rude manner when they could simply ask politely what they want. The other day I went to the post with a printed payment slip and I didn't know that I had to cut the relevant parts so they could keep only their receipt. Rather than telling that next time I should do it, the cashier told me very impolitely that I should have cut the bulletin and that it was not their responsibility to do it. It's not a big deal, but there was no need to respond that way. At the end of the day, I am their client. Anyway, another lesson to learn.
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  #233  
Old 14.04.2015, 19:09
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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The other day I went to the post with a printed payment slip and I didn't know that I had to cut the relevant parts so they could keep only their receipt. Rather than telling that next time I should do it, the cashier told me very impolitely that I should have cut the bulletin and that it was not their responsibility to do it.
You mean one of these (perhaps slightly different layout, slightly different color), right? And you understood that you were separate the two "halves"?

I think it's in the Posts very own interest to receive the two "halves" still attached to each other:
To avoid being defrauded they need to compare the small and the bigger part. This is done by machine, receiving the two parts detached would mean twice as many scans and therefor bigger workload, provided particularly the small left part if detached could be automatically scannned in the first place.

I use the Post fairly often, and I have literally never separated the two parts myself.

Could it be a misunderstanding?

PS:
It's the custom to compute the sum of all payment slips as an additional safety measure to avoid/detect mistakes
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  #234  
Old 14.04.2015, 19:49
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

yea- i've dealt with the rude old ladies who push you out of the way and it's gotten under my skin as well. i'm still not certain it's a swiss thing or just a cranky 'i'm old take care of me, age before blahblah blah " thing.

either way i've gotten enough sweet smiles and small chatty conversations from old women (and men) to make me see that it's not all rudeness- but incidents like that can be annoying enough to make it seem that way.

in any case, honey/vinegar and my tactic is to smile and say excuse me- because i'd prefer to teach my son that it takes all kinds and our kind is to let it go. if you don't you start to see (and your child will too) that people suck. and they don't. they just have their flaws. ok hippy lovefest moment over
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  #235  
Old 14.04.2015, 21:05
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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You mean one of these (perhaps slightly different layout, slightly different color), right? And you understood that you were separate the two "halves"?

I think it's in the Posts very own interest to receive the two "halves" still attached to each other:
To avoid being defrauded they need to compare the small and the bigger part. This is done by machine, receiving the two parts detached would mean twice as many scans and therefor bigger workload, provided particularly the small left part if detached could be automatically scannned in the first place.

I use the Post fairly often, and I have literally never separated the two parts myself.

Could it be a misunderstanding?

PS:
It's the custom to compute the sum of all payment slips as an additional safety measure to avoid/detect mistakes
That's the one but in this case I received the slip by e-mail and I printed it. So it was not their standard slip, which may be easily cut. The printed slip required scissors to cut each part of the slip, which, I presume, it is an exhausing activity. In any event, I learned my lesson and next time I will bring my own scissors.
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  #236  
Old 16.04.2015, 23:53
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

That may indeed make a difference, even more so as you probably printed it on an A4 form (standard full-page size) so it had to be cut on two sides, and perhaps rather precisely so.

Better luck next time
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  #237  
Old 17.04.2015, 00:28
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Rudeness is having my post moved without the courtesy to even tell me.

I'm not someone who spends their life on English Forum...I'm part of the target audience, Joe Average who dips in and out occasionally as a support tool for living the expat life in Switzerland. I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with the rule book that states I should always search on a subject first before making a post.
i think you're beautiful when you get emotional. you can blow your top in a shop anytime as far as im concerned.
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  #238  
Old 17.04.2015, 00:50
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Hi there,

sorry to hear about your experiance I expect it was very frustrating.

We've been here since July last year and have always found the Swiss friendly enough. But hey hey hey yesterday I had my first taste of their famous charms!

I was in Migros, at the till and the lady infront of me was politely waiting for the checkout girl to ring through her shopping. I was next and had put my shopping on ready.... my three year old was quite fed up and naturally starting playing up a bit. Then the till broke!! We waited there for a good ten minutes before the manager closed the till. Now in good old Blighty you would have been shown to the next checkout at least , nope not here. I looked across to the next till there were a couple of elderly ladies there the first promptly turned her back on me as soon as I made eye contact, the second when I asked of I could jump in as I only had a few things and she had a trolley full, looked at me like I was something nasty and flicked her head to the side and motioned for me to go behind her. Bearing in mind there were about 10 people in the queue by now and I had an irrate child and just a few bits.

I was so annoyed I told my child what I thought!! The man just let me go infront of him but was obviously not Swiss!! Then to annoy me even further the poor old lady who then had to repack all her shopping into her basket looked to the back of the queue in dismay and started to head to the back. Well there was a very loud excuse me from me in German and I smiled eagerly and motioned her to go infront of me! Well she was so shocked as she had obviously heard me trying to placate my bored child who had removed all the paper shopping bags and tried to restack them amongst other things by now, I'd like to add in her little defence she was quite cheery for most of the time, and I just hoped that my actions would put the others to shame!!! She was so grateful and it was clear that nobody else could even give a hoot that we had been there already for a long time.

I wish I could speak more German because I'd have tried to put those women to shame, but then again would they have even cared.........
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  #239  
Old 17.04.2015, 22:27
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Sadly, after 45 years here. I am becoming Swiss.

I growl, i stare, i hate those pesky foreigners. That is on Monday and Thursday. The rest of the time i go with the flow.

I just am me. Not some green eyed monster, or some sort of strange foreigner. You have not moved to some distant island in the Pacific where you would have to wear banana leaves and eat bugs.

Get over it. Yes, the language barrier is difficult etc. but look at how many have done it. And intigrated and love it.

My parents went to live in Uganda in 1954 with one young toddler and the other was born there in a Bush hospital in 1956 - and they survived. I lived there from 63 til 65. Idi Amin was ruffling his feathers at the time wanting to kill my family

So i would imagine arriving in "Swiss" in 2015 is a wee bit easier. It's not so bad and not so far fetched from "home".

This Forum helps people so much. I salute it.
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  #240  
Old 18.04.2015, 00:11
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Re: Swiss rudeness is wearing me down.

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I've had a number of encounters of rudeness since living here. Most I brush aside and accept as "cultural difference" but yesterday I blew my lid.

I was with my 4 year old daughter browsing the soft drinks shelf at Zug SBB's Co-Op. Then out of nowhere a woman behind me started ranting at me because my daughter and I were in her way. Normally in this situation (which isn't rare) I'd be subservient and just move out of the way without any fuss.....this time I blew it. Asking where here concept of politeness was, and what's wrong with an "Entschuldigung bitte" The shop fell silent, people paused their shopping with their jaws dropped....staff stopped stacking shelves. The woman didn't like being challenged, she gave no verbal response but simply pushed me out of the way.

Co-Op staff and customers looked on in shock, though thankfully shared my disgust. The sad thing is this kind of incident isn't isolated....I've given the benefit of the doubt too many times...it's clear there is a thread running through Swiss culture, particularly amongst the elder generation that gives them some automatic entitlement to show zero respect or courtesy.

There is some hope. The young Swiss seem to be far more courteous and tolerant.

What is OLD ?
- for 12 years olds everyone above 18
for 20 years olds all above 30
""Trau keinem über 30 // Do not trust anyone above 30 *""
for 30 years olds all above 50
for 50 years olds all above 70
for 70 years olds all above 90
and the 90 years olds are amazed to see lots of TEENAGER employees in all kinds of companies, and wonder where all those old folks arund them suddenly are coming from



Last edited by Wollishofener; 18.04.2015 at 09:12.
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