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  #41  
Old 09.12.2006, 18:52
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Like today, I had to go buy Pizza and Coca Cola for my sister my mum and I, and as soon as I get to the entrance there are these two women chatting happily right in the doorway. No I'm not kidding, they were literally standing in the entrance, making it very hard for anyone to actually get in or out of the shop. So I politely and in a very audiable volume asked them to please excuse me. No, why bother quickly moving away from the entrance -where they shouldn't be standing anyway- for the girl who politely asked them to?

So I asked again, politer and louder. No. It was as thought I wasn't there. For a few seconds I imagined how it would be if I was armed with a blow torch, but then I just decided to squeeze past. But of course, I earned myself a couple of filthy looks with that, because I was being rude....

By the time I left the store, the women had moved out of the way and were now talking about how rude those foreigner children are these days, and how they should be grateful that they can live in this country.
Ah yes .... in Zuerich I noticed that many Swiss for some reason like to stand and chat or just ponder their lives in doorways, be it in shops or on public transport (by exit doors). When you want to get past, you get the dirty looks like you should be finding an alternative exit or something.

I don't think it's actually a cultural thing but rather just that a lot of people in the bigger cities are fairly self centred. I guess it just comes with the level of prosperity and exteme 'easiness' of life in CH that people tend to get rather introspective and isolated from the feelings of others. I found people out in the smaller villages and towns to be more considerate.


Gav
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  #42  
Old 10.12.2006, 17:14
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Yes, but this happened to me in a small village. So not very considerate. Especially seeing that there's only one entrance/exit to the store. Unless they want me to smash a window and climb out that way.
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  #43  
Old 12.12.2006, 13:34
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Yeah ive worked it now, its a game
these are the rules...Think Michael Pallin here as the bycycle repair man in Monty Python..

On the train..Swiss Rules
look straight ahead dont move head ,but you can move your eyes to side to side be carefull noone notices you as it will give the game away NEVER make eye contact..
next select a victim try to all select the same victim as this will score more points
someones whose a bit stressed and looks like they could be in a hurry
DONT look stressed yourself as you could find yourself the target!
next when the train stops all wait for the appropriate moment try to get 2 people in front blocking the door. if the victim is too quick for you try to shuffle past him/her young lady with pram best for this as the victim normally gives way. Now all walk in a slow forward motion to begin with as you see the target start to gather speed match his /her speed so as too gain maximum annoyance. As he /she tries to pass deviate nonchelantly into his her path. If you can manage to stand still and block for just a second you will score more points DO NOT make physical contact! The rest of the team must move in totally unpredictable manner. Maximum points can be scored if the victim goes for as quick shimmy into a space and is blocked making him/her look absolutly daft and when the victim realizes resistance is futile and walks at the same slow speed as the rest of team well done you succeeded Swizzland can breathe a sigh of relief..
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  #44  
Old 12.12.2006, 16:17
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Quote:
On the train..Swiss Rules
look straight ahead dont move head ,but you can move your eyes to side to side be carefull noone notices you as it will give the game away NEVER make eye contact..
next select a victim try to all select the same victim as this will score more points
someones whose a bit stressed and looks like they could be in a hurry
DONT look stressed yourself as you could find yourself the target!
next when the train stops all wait for the appropriate moment try to get 2 people in front blocking the door. if the victim is too quick for you try to shuffle past him/her young lady with pram best for this as the victim normally gives way. Now all walk in a slow forward motion to begin with as you see the target start to gather speed match his /her speed so as too gain maximum annoyance. As he /she tries to pass deviate nonchelantly into his her path. If you can manage to stand still and block for just a second you will score more points DO NOT make physical contact! The rest of the team must move in totally unpredictable manner. Maximum points can be scored if the victim goes for as quick shimmy into a space and is blocked making him/her look absolutly daft and when the victim realizes resistance is futile and walks at the same slow speed as the rest of team well done you succeeded Swizzland can breathe a sigh of relief..
You figured that out all by yourself? congratulations you need a hobby.
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  #45  
Old 12.12.2006, 17:15
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

It doesn't take long to realise this game, just ages to write it out! I was thinking it was just me and the fact I'm used to running around in London and this is just a slower pace of life. My Aussie friend who has been here for years puts it down to a lack of spatial awareness for the Swiss, i.e. no idea of what is happening around them. I find the stopping dead in the middle of the pavement for no apparent reason the most frustrating but this happens in London too, just not as often!
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  #46  
Old 12.12.2006, 22:12
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Quote:
Ah yes .... in Zuerich I noticed that many Swiss for some reason like to stand and chat or just ponder their lives in doorways, be it in shops or on public transport (by exit doors). When you want to get past, you get the dirty looks like you should be finding an alternative exit or something.

I don't think it's actually a cultural thing but rather just that a lot of people in the bigger cities are fairly self centred. I guess it just comes with the level of prosperity and exteme 'easiness' of life in CH that people tend to get rather introspective and isolated from the feelings of others. I found people out in the smaller villages and towns to be more considerate.


Gav
i registered a new HIGH in obstruction today. i was driving from balgrist towards zürich, and i was about to turn to the left when two buddies bicycle militants met on the "zebra streifen" and after a grüezi session they begin to happily chat in the middle of the street. i waited prudential 10 seconds until i claxoned and told them to move on! amazing was, that they reacted like i was the weird one, and not them...! mmmhhh can somebody match this?
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  #47  
Old 12.12.2006, 23:37
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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amazing was, that they reacted like i was the weird one, and not them...!
I read that a lot lately. Well i think that the "weird" look the swiss give you in some situations, is just a way to express surprise in an insecure/small minded, swiss way. However there might be a misunderstanding the swiss react in interpersonal relationships. This gets on my nerves too sometimes (actually mostly). Everything is going a little slower in CH. So are peoples minds and perception. Dynamics is definitely not their strong point.

Don't forget that you live in CH. A 7.5 million dump (in a global scheme of things)
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  #48  
Old 13.12.2006, 16:26
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

I have noticed the habit of stopping for a chat directly next to a pedestrian crossing, and effectively slowing down the flow of traffic.
dave



Quote:
i registered a new HIGH in obstruction today. i was driving from balgrist towards zürich, and i was about to turn to the left when two buddies bicycle militants met on the "zebra streifen" and after a grüezi session they begin to happily chat in the middle of the street. i waited prudential 10 seconds until i claxoned and told them to move on! amazing was, that they reacted like i was the weird one, and not them...! mmmhhh can somebody match this?
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  #49  
Old 13.12.2006, 18:22
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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I have noticed the habit of stopping for a chat directly next to a pedestrian crossing, and effectively slowing down the flow of traffic.
dave
Hey - you don't even need to have a conversation with another person by the crossing to pointlessly hold up the traffic. One thing that always used to irritate me was people who would pretty much stand right beside the crossing either looking at the traffic or staring vacantly into space. When you stopped to let them cross, they just looked at you as if to say "Why did you just stop?" as, in fact, they had just chosen to stand there and do nothing. Weird, I haven't seen that in any other country.

Gav
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  #50  
Old 13.12.2006, 18:26
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Just out of curiosity how do you know that the people doing all this are actually Swiss?
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  #51  
Old 13.12.2006, 18:30
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

A rhetorical question ?
dave

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Just out of curiosity how do you know that the people doing all this are actually Swiss?
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  #52  
Old 13.12.2006, 18:36
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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A rhetorical question ?
dave
Yes and NO I assume most people are just guessing
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  #53  
Old 14.12.2006, 14:48
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

I don't know if this is classed as rudeness, but I think it is, so let's talk about The Swiss and Personal Space. Or how they don't need any.

Is it just me, or does everyone get annoyed that the Swiss don't need any room? Like if you sit in an empty compartement in the train, someone'll come and sit right across from you, so that your knees are almost touching.
Or when you're walking and someone bumps into you, they don't apologise (but that's been mentioned here before I think).
I work in a book shop, and I don't know how many times a customer has followed me so closely that I can't take a step sideways without bumping into them.
I learned in primary school in Australia that 'the circle you can draw around yourself with an outstretched arm' is your personal space and everyone should respect that. Apparently kids don't learn that here.

Also, what's with the staring? I used to constantly worry that I had something on my face, but then I figured out that the Swiss just stare for no apparent reason. The worst ones are the people who walk towards you in the street and just look at you so openly that you think they'll say 'Grüezi' just to be polite. But they don't. (I never saw the point of saying grüezi to strangers in the street, but it's the done thing, at least in small villages.)

Yes, I've been annoyed by people who stand in doorways heaps of times. It's so predictable sometimes that I get the feeling they do it on purpose.
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  #54  
Old 14.12.2006, 14:59
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

It's one of those insanely Swiss things - that's what makes the country so fascinating.

At the gym. The locker room is empty, but where does the Swiss person chose to get changed and hang their clothes up. Right next to you.

Also to not looking on Zebra crossings. Often you will see people crossing a busy street and not look to see if they are going to be run over. They seem to have either blind faith that the motorist has seen them, or eye in the side of their heads.

I can confirm the blocking of every possible place to block by people talking to each other and not getting out of the way has occurred just about every day I have lived here. Thats 18 years.
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  #55  
Old 14.12.2006, 15:04
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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.....I learned in primary school in Australia that 'the circle you can draw around yourself with an outstretched arm' is your personal space and everyone should respect that. Apparently kids don't learn that here.........
Crikey, lucky they didnt teach that one at Yokine Primary School. I would have clipped the kid at the desk next to me in the back of the head

Didnt realise it was such a formal thing!
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  #56  
Old 14.12.2006, 15:10
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

I remember reading a very good book once called "Body Language" by Alan Pease. He observed that the concept of personal space varied between cultures. Peopl that live on farms or in wide open spaces greet each other from afar and will have conversations at a range of several yards.

City people are used to having their nose crushed into other peoples armpits on the metro, and so are much more comfortable in more intimate encounters with strangers.

I think the doorway thang (which has been observed my many people here) is probably just related to the weather.

The lack of awareness of those around them is something I have seen, but I have no idea why it is.

Incidentally I have been advised when searching the useful expression: "would you jump in my grave so quickly?", to use instead the question "are you all farmers ?". Apparently this is an insult of suitable strength, for those train-bundle moments..

dave




Quote:
I don't know if this is classed as rudeness, but I think it is, so let's talk about The Swiss and Personal Space. Or how they don't need any.

Is it just me, or does everyone get annoyed that the Swiss don't need any room? Like if you sit in an empty compartement in the train, someone'll come and sit right across from you, so that your knees are almost touching.
Or when you're walking and someone bumps into you, they don't apologise (but that's been mentioned here before I think).
I work in a book shop, and I don't know how many times a customer has followed me so closely that I can't take a step sideways without bumping into them.
I learned in primary school in Australia that 'the circle you can draw around yourself with an outstretched arm' is your personal space and everyone should respect that. Apparently kids don't learn that here.

Also, what's with the staring? I used to constantly worry that I had something on my face, but then I figured out that the Swiss just stare for no apparent reason. The worst ones are the people who walk towards you in the street and just look at you so openly that you think they'll say 'Grüezi' just to be polite. But they don't. (I never saw the point of saying grüezi to strangers in the street, but it's the done thing, at least in small villages.)

Yes, I've been annoyed by people who stand in doorways heaps of times. It's so predictable sometimes that I get the feeling they do it on purpose.
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  #57  
Old 14.12.2006, 15:11
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

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Crikey, lucky they didnt teach that one at Yokine Primary School. I would have clipped the kid at the desk next to me in the back of the head

Didnt realise it was such a formal thing!
Or maybe I just had really old fashioned teachers.
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  #58  
Old 14.12.2006, 15:18
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

The interesting thing I see in Orel Füssli is that when someone is staring intently at an area of shelf obviously looking for something, another customer thinks nothing of stepping right across in front of them - blocking their view- to consult a lower shelf. I was taught such behaviour was rude and one should step around, not across.
dave


[quote=AfterlifeMints]
I work in a book shop, and I don't know how many times a customer has followed me so closely that I can't take a step sideways without bumping into them.
quote]
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  #59  
Old 14.12.2006, 15:23
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

ah but dave - they stand on the opposite side of the aisle in a matrix-eque stance looking for what they want
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Old 14.12.2006, 15:27
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Re: Swiss Rudeness

Maybe she was having a bad day.

On the whole I've found the people here in CH to be very friendly if a little formal and stiff but once you get to know them...

In my little village (2700 population) , everyone (even the kids) say hello when they pass by. Even in the kiosk, the attendants will share jokes and wish you well. Must be a big city thing.

Just my two Rappen worth.
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