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  #21  
Old 30.05.2015, 13:32
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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Neanderthals, on the far right of the political spectrum, down from some small inter-bred mountain village, for the weekend.
Probably in many cases yes, but if you heard and read some of my students' work, you'd realize that this is becoming one of the leading youth cultures in towns even in liberal areas. The opposite movement exists too.
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Old 30.05.2015, 16:31
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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Such incidents, thankfully, are still less common, than in other lands.
I'm not picking on you at all, just genuinely curious - which other lands?



I do not travel to the UK, so I obviously have no clue as to the situation there, but the anti-foreigner sentiment in Switzerland is without question more open and more socially "acceptable" than anywhere else in western Europe. and I'm not talking about anti-foreigner sentiment among toothless mountain folk, since frankly nobody can surpass the ignorance and outright blind hatred of American mountain folk, I am rather talking otherwise relatively bright and educated people living in urban centers.
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Old 30.05.2015, 16:44
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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I'm not picking on you at all, just genuinely curious - which other lands?



I do not travel to the UK, so I obviously have no clue as to the situation there, but the anti-foreigner sentiment in Switzerland is without question more open and more socially "acceptable" than anywhere else in western Europe. and I'm not talking about anti-foreigner sentiment among toothless mountain folk, since frankly nobody can surpass the ignorance and outright blind hatred of American mountain folk, I am rather talking otherwise relatively bright and educated people living in urban centers.
The difference is that in Switzerland, "anti-foreigner sentiment" is 99 times out of 100 harmless, and not equal to racially-motivated violence, which in other countries is comparatively rife.

People are allowed to have openly anti-foreigner sentiments, regardless of education, as long as those sentiments do not cross into racism and do not break the common laws of the country.
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Old 30.05.2015, 17:00
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

I moved here with my family 5 months ago, my wife and I are a mixed race couple and unfortunately we have experienced several instances of racism directed at my wife and children. It has really changed our view on life in Switzerland.
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Old 30.05.2015, 17:12
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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The difference is that in Switzerland, "anti-foreigner sentiment" is 99 times out of 100 harmless, and not equal to racially-motivated violence, which in other countries is comparatively rife.

People are allowed to have openly anti-foreigner sentiments, regardless of education, as long as those sentiments do not cross into racism and do not break the common laws of the country.
I do not think it accurate to refer to anything short of physical violence as being "harmless".

P.S. I would be curious as to in which other lands racially-motivated violence is "rife", particularly in western Europe.
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Old 30.05.2015, 17:14
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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I do not think it accurate to refer to anything short of physical violence as being "harmless".
Racial abuse is totally harmless when you're a white English bloke.
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Old 30.05.2015, 17:35
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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I do not think it accurate to refer to anything short of physical violence as being "harmless".
I said generally and mostly harmless, not always without exception. And there is a difference between xenopohobia (which Swiss mostly display) and racism.

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P.S. I would be curious as to in which other lands racially-motivated violence is "rife", particularly in western Europe.
I said "comparatively" rife (read a little more carefully). UK, Holland, Poland, Hungary etc...

Almost every country has "comparatively rife" crime levels vs Switzerland... but racially incited violence is still a factor in many EU countries.
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Old 30.05.2015, 18:11
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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The difference is that in Switzerland, "anti-foreigner sentiment" is 99 times out of 100 harmless, and not equal to racially-motivated violence, which in other countries is comparatively rife.

People are allowed to have openly anti-foreigner sentiments, regardless of education, as long as those sentiments do not cross into racism and do not break the common laws of the country.
I think the openly anti - foreigner sentiment as you called it, does cross the line to racism in my experience albeit a short limited period. It's disgraceful.
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Old 30.05.2015, 18:46
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

France, Germany, Holland, UK, Russia ..... and US - but there it's done with a badge and a gun.
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Old 30.05.2015, 21:56
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

So that's alright then. Problem sorted. Excellent post. Well done!

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I said generally and mostly harmless, not always without exception. And there is a difference between xenopohobia (which Swiss mostly display) and racism.



I said "comparatively" rife (read a little more carefully). UK, Holland, Poland, Hungary etc...

Almost every country has "comparatively rife" crime levels vs Switzerland... but racially incited violence is still a factor in many EU countries.
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  #31  
Old 01.06.2015, 07:15
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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There probably isn't a lot the police can do - but I think you should still report it. It will go on their stats and hopefully would influence their strategy in where to have the heaviest patrol presence.

If they are being thorough - and you can remember what the perps looked like, maybe they will have you go through a photo album of people known to them. A friend who had money stolen by distraction theft on the street was asked to do the same and she managed to pick out someone the cops had been keeping tabs on. I can't remember if it resulted in an arrest.

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Thanks!Yes, thats what i plan to do today.

Have been going through all the comments.I come from India, one of the more racially diverse lands of the world.This is my first experience with anything close to racism and all i can say is that whatever the degree of racism, it can NEVER EVER be ok .To make another human feel like that? No.Not acceptable.I m not naive, i know it happens everywhere, including my country, Im just saying that it is not acceptable.At any degree.
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  #32  
Old 01.06.2015, 07:42
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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Thanks!Yes, thats what i plan to do today.

Have been going through all the comments.I come from India, one of the more racially diverse lands of the world.This is my first experience with anything close to racism and all i can say is that whatever the degree of racism, it can NEVER EVER be ok .To make another human feel like that? No.Not acceptable.I m not naive, i know it happens everywhere, including my country, Im just saying that it is not acceptable.At any degree.
Why is it not acceptable? What if there is no such thing as racism, and it's just another manifestation of tribalism and that seems to be hard-wired into the human condition, my tribe yeh, your tribe boo! Everything else is cosmetic.
Tribalism seems to be ok for us, FC Basel against Youngboys, Apple vrs. Winddoof. Perhaps if we accept that racism exists instead of trying to ignore it we can find ways to deal with it properly.
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  #33  
Old 01.06.2015, 09:05
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

So you're Indian, and this happened in the evening, so in all likelyhood these two guys were drunk which revealed their predisposition for racism.

Just a case of wrong place wrong time. I don't think it's worth trying to look for some deeper meaning as I doubt there is one.
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  #34  
Old 01.06.2015, 09:41
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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Why is it not acceptable? What if there is no such thing as racism, and it's just another manifestation of tribalism and that seems to be hard-wired into the human condition, my tribe yeh, your tribe boo! Everything else is cosmetic.
Tribalism seems to be ok for us, FC Basel against Youngboys, Apple vrs. Winddoof. Perhaps if we accept that racism exists instead of trying to ignore it we can find ways to deal with it properly.
You must be white, right?

Although, in general terms (probably not on this instance, though), I do think that the PC brigade that continually cry racism at every available opportunity are actually helping to perpetuate the problem, and in an unwitting way, demonstrating a form of racism, by always making race an issue (yes, bleeding heart liberals, I'm looking at you).

However, as an Anglo-Saxon caucasian, it's never been an issue for me - maybe people of colour could argue, otherwise.

In earlier times, before PC, I remember seeing an interview with Stevie Wonder, succeeding in the music industry, despite being born blind.
When the interviewer commented that it must have been really tough, being born blind, Stevie Wonder replied:

- "yeah, but things could have been even worse"

- "how's that?" asked the interviewer, somewhat confused,

- "I could have been born black, too" came the reply.

Back in the day, there were many such jokes, across all races - "There was an Englishman, Welshman, Scotsman and an Irishman ...... " in it's many guises (or, 'there was a Swiss, a German and an Austrian ..... '), being very common, as were those about Ethiopians, Biafrans, etc.

To cry racism every time such jokes were told, could be correct, but would only highlight and help create problems, where, possibly, none existed.
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Old 01.06.2015, 10:25
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

I am frequently on the tram from HB to Beckenhof (where the addiction center is). There is almost always some 'sketchy' looking characters and once in a while some who are belligerent and drunk. All in all no real issues, so I lean towards the 'harmless' side. Everyone on the tram kinda laughs to themselves in a fashion of "oh you, drunk again :P", but if it was another country, there would probably be some greater issues.

On the topic of tattoos, there are a couple guys on a hockey team I play with who sport the look (shaved head, bomber jacket, etc.) and sure enough they have some large tattoos paying homage to Nazi Germany - Reichsadler with Swastikas--although not normally visible. They're not friendly to me, but they're also not aggressive or rude to me, so we just go our own ways---Doesn't bother me one bit.
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Old 01.06.2015, 10:46
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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On the topic of tattoos, there are a couple guys on a hockey team I play with who sport the look (shaved head, bomber jacket, etc.) and sure enough they have some large tattoos paying homage to Nazi Germany - Reichsadler with Swastikas--although not normally visible. They're not friendly to me, but they're also not aggressive or rude to me, so we just go our own ways---Doesn't bother me one bit.

I always find it amusing how these dickheads choose to wear the emblems of the losing side!

"Look at me! I'm big and tough and intimidating! I am wearing the symbols of a political system which was incinerated and pounded into dust in 1945 by a motley band of Slavic untermenschen, teddy-bear hugging Brits and gum-chewing cowboys. Bet you're scared now! Grrrr!"


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Old 01.06.2015, 11:09
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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I always find it amusing how these dickheads choose to wear the emblems of the losing side!

"Look at me! I'm big and tough and intimidating! I am wearing the symbols of a political system which was incinerated and pounded into dust in 1945 by a motley band of Slavic untermenschen, teddy-bear hugging Brits and gum-chewing cowboys. Bet you're scared now! Grrrr!"


I suppose you could say the same, for instance, about those who drive around with the confederate flag on their trucks….
"Down south of the Mason-Dixon, friends
Rebels are rockin' and rollin' in
Confederate money they are ready to spend
South's gonna rise again, hallelujah
South's gonna rise again, well ah-ah
South's gonna rise again"


The question is actually interesting, why are some people wistful for systems that lost their fights? Inca v. Spain, Indians v. Settlers, Nazis v. Allies etc. that list goes on and on...
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Old 01.06.2015, 11:14
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

Weird... the quote function doesn't seem to be working.


Anyway, I think people like systems which were destroyed by outside influences because it allows them to fantasise about "what could have been". A system which endures and turns out to be a bit crap, but essentially functional, isn't half as exciting as a promising, revolutionary system of which the world was cruelly robbed by those nasty Yankees/Jews/whoever.
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Old 01.06.2015, 11:21
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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I moved here with my family 5 months ago, my wife and I are a mixed race couple and unfortunately we have experienced several instances of racism directed at my wife and children.
That has been our experience as well - we've encountered more racism here than we ever did in the UK. I've been groaned at for saying that in the past - not quite sure why, as what we experience is what we experience. It hasn't jaded our view of Switzerland however, and the level of racist behaviour is still very low level and mild. Just more than the UK.
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Old 01.06.2015, 11:23
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Re: Unexplainable :attempted mugging/physical intimidation at bahnhofquai tramstop

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Weird... the quote function doesn't seem to be working.


.
This happened to me the other day when I wanted to quote after I had thanked someone. I wonder if there is a connection.
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