90% of the time, the Swiss I encounter are polite, courteous, helpful - etc etc.

However, when it comes to walking along the street in broad daylight, respecting personal space, their ideas of etiquette seem to be a little bit different from they ones I have been raised with.

Today walking along Steinenvorstadt in Basel and aroudn a couple of shops I experienced about half a dozen people either bump into me - or nearly bump into - all because they weren't looking where they were going (e.g. texting on mobile, talking to friends etc etc). On none of these occasions was an apology forthcoming - except for the woman who swung out of the Migros Food Court with a pram and caught me with the wheel while I was standing at the service window on the street.

Then I was in the Coop City on Marktplatz trying to find a jelly mould in the kitchen section - so was taking my time perusing the shelves. This woman to the right of me decided she wanted something which was on the shelf I was looking at but about a foot to the left. Instead of going around me (the aisles are wide enough) she decided to reach across me. I gave this woman a hard stare (Paddington would be proud) and she looked (white??)sheepishly back at me - so she knew she was in the wrong.

The SVP supporters and their chums all go on about how foreigners in Switzerland should try to emulate the Swiss and integrate. How much will I have to lower my standards to achieve this I wonder?

Cheers,
Nick

The lack of apology after someone bumps into me is one of the things I, and many friends, have noticed in this country. Not sure if it is a Swiss thing but in general, in Ireland, people say sorry. Not always (there are d*******s everywhere), but more often than here.

Probably if it wasn't for the holier-than-thou attitude about the superior upbringing and education the Swiss have (as touted by the SVP with their racist hate campaigns plus some of the posters on these fora) I would assume it is how people are here and not to be taken as downright ignorance.

Cheers,
Nick

I think it's the same in any city really, maybe a bit more so in Zurich. I don't think it's a rudeness thing, it's just a 'I'm on my way from point A to point B and I'm not noticing you'

I have found that if someone bumps into me and I give them a nasty look, they usually say sorry or entshuldigung.

its also the same on the trains, if you are walking down the carriage and others coming towards you, they often dont stop to let you through. i found one time that i was literally stopping to let about 20 people through one day before i snapped and now i normally shove through a bit more often myself.

I think you're right. Away from the cities, people are always apologising to each other. It all seems very friendly, polite and considerate.

i don't think it is a city thing, at least from my experience, the few times I got bumped into in NYC, people always apologized. Then again, people bump into you much more often here, even though there are less people and space is less tight. People are generally less aware of their surroundings when walking though, which is a good thing, enjoying a nice walk out.

The walking thing is annoyance to me but overall the Swiss have good manners imo.

It's not a city thing. NYC use to have a bad reputation for rudeness, but about 10 years ago, everyone some how become much more polite. Also take Tokyo. If anyone should accidentally bump into anyone else, they'll promptly apologize and bow 3 times.

It's definitely a cultural thing. I find it very condescending. I believe it's a lack of social skills.

That's another thing. A few times in a crowded place - e.g. Migros on a Saturday - I have stopped to let someone through and then the person who was behind me just shoved past.

The other one is the top of the escalator for the Kloten (not the Dutch expression) Airport train at Basel SBB when people with large suitcases hover right next to the top of the escalator this forcing hapless commuters to trip over them.

Cheers,
Nick

was discussing this with J_T yesterday regards Bern & the Bernese Bovine Syndrome, where they all wander around completely aimlessly ....

Obviously this is accentuated at the weekends when busloads of Japanese tourists get clicky on the Kramgasse ....

People seem to always want to get into the lift/train/bus before you can get out. They also like to press the lift door close buttons as soon as they select their floor instead of looking if someone else if about to get caught in the doors.

Wanting to "reserve" a seat with their bag on the train is also quite popular.

Is it a lack of manners? I bet these people don't even realise there is anyone else around but themselves.

Another pet peeve is when dining. Where I come from, we ask each other out to eat for social reasons, not for energy consumption. So we normally wait until everyone is served before starting to eat. But here, I notice many start eating right away before the others get their plate. As if they were starving in a famine. I find this pitiful.

Yes, that's called a lack of manners.

No, I 100% disagree. You can't tell an entire society they lack manners because they were raised in a different culture of what manners are. I get stared at a lot here, much more so than in English speaking countries but I wouldn't say the Swiss lack manners. I'm just guessing they weren't told repeatedly as children "It's not polite to stare"

So it isn't just me who experiences that.

Cheers,
Nick

Social manners are about learned sensitivity to others. Or are we talking about a different meaning of the word? Where there is no sensitivty to others, there are no manners.

Interesting one. I've always been brought up to wait for others to be served also. However if my co-diners' meals have arrived and mine doesn't arrive for a few minutes because of the restaurant's screw-up, I will ask my companions to start eating lest their meal go cold. By the same token, I expect them to give me time to eat my food when it eventually arrives.

Cheers,
Nick

Well that's just because you are both hot babes.

Alright, we'll throw in some positive manners in the mix.... we're equal opportunity critics....

I do like the way they say "Bye everyone and I wish you a nice evening" to a busload of strangers when getting off. A bit bizarre, but it's positive.

Ah, just go live in Copenhagen for a while, especially in winter. Then the Swiss will seem soft, slow-moving and apologetic. You'll really appreciate getting an occasional "sorry".

It's just cultural norms; I really don't think it reflects a greater or lesser amount of consideration for fellow humans. I've had the experience of feeling like a rude, unfriendly foreigner in some places I've visited, when the norms of friendliness or politeness were different and I just couldn't adjust quickly enough. Is everyone in Tokyo a better person than me, just because they apologise more?

Survival in cities always requires ignoring the presence of others to some extent. (You wouldn't stop and give everyone on Oxford St a friendly greeting.) So, the extent varies a little from place to place. Don't let it spoil your day.