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  #21  
Old 09.06.2015, 11:35
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

800...
So it is the matter of principle already, considering the time I spent on searching the child for them and fighting for my money
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  #22  
Old 09.06.2015, 11:39
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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the German version is irrelevant if you weren't shown it at the time
Be careful on that - it is only irrelevant if it isn't referenced in the English contract.

But if it is referenced, then signing the contract acknowledges the German version. It is up to the signer to ask for it and read it, or refuse to sign if not happy, you can't just complain later that you didn't read all the relevant parts.
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Old 09.06.2015, 11:55
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

The German version is not referenced in our contract. It is a bilingual day care and the parents are mostly non-German speaking.

I also believe I fulfilled both the contractual agreement and my part of the deal. I explained my points to them many times. They confirmed I fulfilled my part by answering: 'The new family signed the contract therefore you don't have to pay for January'. But I don't know all the legal tricks they might use.

I don't understand their politics - if the parents are so unhappy, they share it at some point with other parents, their potential clients.
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Old 09.06.2015, 12:03
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

This isn't uncommon with small businesses - they do this sort of stupid thing, and it takes a while to build up, and demand for childcare is so high they think they're fine.

Then the staff realise all the parents are pissed off, the atmosphere is rubbish, and they leave. Suddenly the business has a problem in staffing, where the demand works against them, and they go bust - or more likely someone new takes over and the cycle repeats.

Swiss customer service is unfortunately renowned for never admitting mistakes, thus digging a hole where a simple painless "oh yes, you're right" would save time, money and reputation.
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Old 09.06.2015, 12:10
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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800...
So it is the matter of principle already, considering the time I spent on searching the child for them and fighting for my money
Even if I had the legal insurance, for 800CHF it wouldn't be worth the hassle to me. I would walk way. YMMV
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Old 09.06.2015, 14:14
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

If the amount is only CHF800, then the Schlichtung will have the authority to make a ruling. Assuming that they find in your favour, it would then be up to DCKI to challenge the ruling. I'd say it's quite likely that they would throw in the towel at this point.

Looks like they have a lot more to lose than you do.
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Old 10.06.2015, 10:18
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

Can they ignore Schlichtung? They have blocked my emails now...
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Old 10.06.2015, 10:56
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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Can they ignore Schlichtung? They have blocked my emails now...
Use registered mail.
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Old 10.06.2015, 11:00
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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Can they ignore Schlichtung? They have blocked my emails now...
They wouldn't be wise to ignore it, because the Schlichtung would probably just issue a decision in your favour (and award their costs against DCKI). If that happens, then DCKI must either challenge the decision or pay up.
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Old 10.06.2015, 11:00
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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Use registered mail.
I did, also from the adress without my name. Always get 'Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently' some time after I send the email. I don't believe these are sudden technical problems with all their adresses.
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  #31  
Old 10.06.2015, 15:41
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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I did, also from the adress without my name. Always get 'Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently' some time after I send the email. I don't believe these are sudden technical problems with all their adresses.
NotAllThere means to send a real paper letter, with your original signature, via registered Post.

That doesn't just mean send a letter with a stamp on it. It's a letter that is tracked by the postal service and the recipient signs for it. This costs a bit more than regular postage. Most of the time e-mail is not considered "official" communication, so where any contract is concerned, use registered Post/mail.
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  #32  
Old 10.06.2015, 16:50
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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NotAllThere means to send a real paper letter, with your original signature, via registered Post.

That doesn't just mean send a letter with a stamp on it. It's a letter that is tracked by the postal service and the recipient signs for it. This costs a bit more than regular postage. Most of the time e-mail is not considered "official" communication, so where any contract is concerned, use registered Post/mail.
Sorry, was not reading carefully. Registered mail is an option, but I guess I'll just try to call them and see if they really ignore me now, and apply to Schlichtungsamt.
Anyway, KG has my claim in the emails when they were still answering.
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  #33  
Old 10.06.2015, 23:57
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

I can't believe that clause is even in there. It is such a suppliers' market... unbelievable. Reminds a lot of Swiss rental contracts.

You can cancel twice a year, only at a specific date and only with a professionally cleaned flat confirmed by a receipt from a reputable cleaning company... blablabla.

Thanks for sharing, Ekaterina.

Even if there might be ambiguity around the wording in the contract, from a service provider's perspective, they have a lot to lose. In the era of (social) media shitstorms, service providers can not afford to even have one single pissed off customer.
Plus, I would challenge such clauses as "unverhältnismässig" as they still fail to provide evidence, what costs they are covering with the deposit. Even more, I think the nature of the term in the contract is wrong, and thus in your favour. A DEPOSIT is indeed to cover possible expenses and in my opinion you have a right to know what they are. Otherwise, we are talking about a PENALTY for early leaving which IMHO has no legal foundation and might even be unlawful.
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  #34  
Old 12.06.2015, 10:52
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

I'm probably getting to suspicious about everything. It was a real big technical problem with their email server :|

Anyway, they confirmed they don't have problems with the new clients and it is up to me to apply to Schlichtungsamt. All friendly and nice, but they don't care. No comments.

Well, good opportunity to train my German while writing the Schlichtungsgesuch
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Old 19.06.2015, 21:12
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

Hi, I would like to kindly enter this conversation as a teacher from Kid's Island and a member of the management team. I have worked at Kid's Island for more than five years and I know that our director is willing to work with parents in situations like this. I am aware that a meeting was offered to discuss the matter, which you did not respond to, and they made an offer to even split the deposit with you in order to settle the dispute. This offer was also ignored. I am very familiar with the contract and as a native English speaker I have to say that the contract is quite clear to me. You can quit 3 months in advance BUT ONLY at the quarter "the exit can take place at the end of a quarter –January 31 / April 30 / July 31 / October 31." You quit in August which is outside the cancellation periods which are stated in the contract as seen above. Our admin. team allowed you to leave in December even though your contract obligated you to pay the tariff until January. Because you found a child to replace yours, you did not have to pay the tariff for January, this did not excuse you from the deposit. In my opinion, this option was better for your family as you know the tariff for January is more costly than the deposit. In my opinion, our director was fair to you as she excused you from paying that month's tariff, offered a meeting to discuss it and offered to split the deposit. Please contact the school if you would be willing to attend the meeting that was proposed a few months back. Kind Regards
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  #36  
Old 19.06.2015, 21:23
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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Hi, I would like to kindly enter this conversation as a teacher from Kid's Island and a member of the management team. I have worked at Kid's Island for more than five years and I know that our director is willing to work with parents in situations like this. I am aware that a meeting was offered to discuss the matter, which you did not respond to, and they made an offer to even split the deposit with you in order to settle the dispute. This offer was also ignored. I am very familiar with the contract and as a native English speaker I have to say that the contract is quite clear to me. You can quit 3 months in advance BUT ONLY at the quarter "the exit can take place at the end of a quarter –January 31 / April 30 / July 31 / October 31." You quit in August which is outside the cancellation periods which are stated in the contract as seen above. Our admin. team allowed you to leave in December even though your contract obligated you to pay the tariff until January. Because you found a child to replace yours, you did not have to pay the tariff for January, this did not excuse you from the deposit. In my opinion, this option was better for your family as you know the tariff for January is more costly than the deposit. In my opinion, our director was fair to you as she excused you from paying that month's tariff, offered a meeting to discuss it and offered to split the deposit. Please contact the school if you would be willing to attend the meeting that was proposed a few months back. Kind Regards
If they found someone to take the place so the day care didn't lose out then how is it fair to keep the deposit even if it's in the contract?
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Old 20.06.2015, 00:47
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

OP left by end of november, and presumably didn't pay for more. Replacement parents paid for january. Who paid for december? If nobody did, I guess that's what a deposit is for.
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Old 20.06.2015, 09:54
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

I'm appalled that the management team are not just paying up and are demanding you attend meetings to discuss getting back a reduced deposit.

Surely DCKI realise how many potential customers they will lose who read this thread looking for a review of the nursery and see badly how the company treats a customer of 3 years who has fulfilled all agreed obligations?
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Old 20.06.2015, 15:44
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

I appreciate your reply.

First of all, we didn't move to another country and were traveling to Kids Island for one month from the new place to our inconvenience. Although the new child we found wanted to join already from December, but was admitted only from January since he was one month younger than needed. Surely, if we knew that the proposed exception is only partial for us and concerns only monthly payment but not the deposit, we would never spend so much time searching for a replacement. So at the end the offer was not any good to us.

The director did propose the meeting with her assistant after many many emails between us, but it was not about deposit split, she said that they would just explain us the contract in details and why they are right. The meeting was proposed during working time and we didn’t see any reason for it before we have consulted independent legal services. So we’ve consulted with K-Tipp, and did our homework, and wrote more emails to the kindergarten. After it had become clear that the kindergarten was not going to return the deposit, we decided to go to Schlichtungsamt.

I wrote about our decision to the kindergarten and last Friday I also called them (just before my previous message here) to make sure the management is aware of our plans to apply to Schlichtungsamt. Some hours later I've got a phone call back with this proposal to make a 50/50 split, which was not really very explicit - the director said she would still have to talk with the accounting department if we agreed. I asked the director again to explain why they agreed to return only a part of the deposit, but was referred to the legal department who wrote the contract. We agreed that I would write her back during the weekends.

I talked to my husband and we decided that in general it’s an acceptable solution but still would be interesting to know explanation of their legal department. On weekends I emailed the director back and informed her that I postponed the application to Schlichtungsamt and expressed my wish to have a phone call with the legal department of Kids Island before we decide anything.

To my surprise, yesterday I've got a letter from the director which basically withdraws the offer to make a split and stops any communication on this matter - she saw my email, but also this thread on EF.

If the kindergarten’s management proves any offense or lie from my side, I'm ready to apologize openly. I didn't mean to offense anyone, I just feel frustrated and don't find the situation normal - I have a right to speak it out. This thread was opened after six months of communications with the kindergarten, and after I talked to my friends and colleagues none of whom could understand why I don't have the right for the deposit. As I said, I did like the teaching process and was always advertising the place to my friends before all this happened.

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Hi, I would like to kindly enter this conversation as a teacher from Kid's Island and a member of the management team. I have worked at Kid's Island for more than five years and I know that our director is willing to work with parents in situations like this. I am aware that a meeting was offered to discuss the matter, which you did not respond to, and they made an offer to even split the deposit with you in order to settle the dispute. This offer was also ignored. I am very familiar with the contract and as a native English speaker I have to say that the contract is quite clear to me. You can quit 3 months in advance BUT ONLY at the quarter "the exit can take place at the end of a quarter –January 31 / April 30 / July 31 / October 31." You quit in August which is outside the cancellation periods which are stated in the contract as seen above. Our admin. team allowed you to leave in December even though your contract obligated you to pay the tariff until January. Because you found a child to replace yours, you did not have to pay the tariff for January, this did not excuse you from the deposit. In my opinion, this option was better for your family as you know the tariff for January is more costly than the deposit. In my opinion, our director was fair to you as she excused you from paying that month's tariff, offered a meeting to discuss it and offered to split the deposit. Please contact the school if you would be willing to attend the meeting that was proposed a few months back. Kind Regards
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Old 21.06.2015, 10:51
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Re: Day Care Kids Island not returning the deposit

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OP left by end of november, and presumably didn't pay for more. Replacement parents paid for january. Who paid for december? If nobody did, I guess that's what a deposit is for.
We left by end of December and paid until December inclusive.
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