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Old 09.06.2015, 01:22
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Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

Hi,

there's a small boy around four years old who has been physically attacking mine and other's children in the park. We have all shouted at him to stop, my neighbour had very strong words with his Mother today but it just carries on....

Apparently the Grandparents won't let the Mother discipline him or some other nonsense. I don't really care. He has cousins and a sister also who create merry hell on our estate , but he actually hits, kicks etc .

Now my question to you all is this.

I'm really fed up, actually my blood is boiling. Am I allowed to video him assaulting other kids and take it to the Police?
Do they have ASBOs around here?
The family are from Albania and I don't want to cause a mini war between them and us on our estate. We have tried amicably but now it's just gone too far.

An example.... Two weeks ago whilst my daughters were on the climbing frame in the park below our apartment, I was on the balcony practising german on my laptop as is our routine, and he was there with his ? 3 -4 year old sister and Mum and two other women? Aunts and his Grandmother. This child picked up my children's sand toys , which were a real sized fork and spade - plastic and started hitting my girls legs, they shouted at him. I watched in horror as the women all laughed when they saw him hurting my girls and carried on talking. Well I shouted as loud as I could - I shocked myself as to how loud I was!! The women were shocked as they didn't realise I was watching I was down there in a flash and the Mother apologised to me which I accepted and brought my children home.

I have told my girls to walk away, but he still follows them. So now I've told them not to hit but to push him gently away.

Yesterday he hit a boy who laid into him back, hmmm he didn't like that very much..... I do not want to teach my girls to hit but I'm scared one of them will snap and then I'll be the one with the Police at my door.
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Old 09.06.2015, 01:31
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

get the kids to organise into a gang and when he starts on one, everybody forms around him in a circle and then kicks the crap out of him.
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Old 09.06.2015, 01:47
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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get the kids to organise into a gang and when he starts on one, everybody forms around him in a circle and then kicks the crap out of him.
thankyou!!

Well his sister was throwing sand at my girls about a month ago, and a group of older children came to play and my eldest who is six told them and they chased her off, she was terrified but returned ten mins later looking very coy.

Honestly nothing works, he did something to another neighbour s two year old and her father told him off, he just gave him the middle finger and rode off on his bike.

They are out of control.....
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Old 09.06.2015, 01:51
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

how serious is the fighting. i guess you could ignore it if it is only minor, or maybe if it is bothering you. speak to the police.
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Old 09.06.2015, 02:07
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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how serious is the fighting. i guess you could ignore it if it is only minor, or maybe if it is bothering you. speak to the police.
It's quite vicious. He will approach the kids in the sand pit and take their toys , throw them in the bin. Kick them hard, hit them on the head etc. He's just trouble with a capital T. When mine were on their picnic blanket, he rode his bike to the edge and slowly pushed the front wheel onto the blanket by their feet , just looking at them menacingly untill I shouted at him to stop again. My girls were just trying to stop him running over their legs and gather their colouring stuff at the same time. He means it when he does it.

Am I allowed to take video evidence? I'm intending on writing a diary for two weeks on them and if I am allowed to take a video to back up my story I will.
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Old 09.06.2015, 02:18
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

There's little you can - or are permitted - to do against a minor, if you don't want to land yourself in trouble.

- try to talk to the parents, although probably futile, due to language and cultural differences;

- attempt to film, although could be illegal and may not be viewed favourably by officialdom;

- if it's on public ground, then report it to the police and/or whichever authority is responsible for the land (gemeinde?), although they may be reluctant to act and encourage you to try to sort it out yourself;
[this would be my recommendation];

- throw a bucket of cold water over the little bastard .... although this could escalate into parental retalliation.


Hopefully he's still too young to be carrying a knife


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Am I allowed to take video evidence? I'm intending on writing a diary for two weeks on them and if I am allowed to take a video to back up my story I will.
Openly filming children, without the express permission of the parents, is undoubtedly illegal. You could try, but it may not be viewed favourably by authorities ...... but if you do it discreetly and get away with it, it could be useful - but could also backfire.
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Old 09.06.2015, 02:30
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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There's little you can - or are permitted - to do against a minor, if you don't want to land yourself in trouble.

- try to talk to the parents, although probably futile, due to language and cultural differences;

- attempt to film, although could be illegal and may not be viewed favourably by officialdom;

- if it's on public ground, then report it to the police and/or whichever authority is responsible for the land (gemeinde?), although they may be reluctant to act and encourage you to try to sort it out yourself;
[this would be my recommendation];

- throw a bucket of cold water over the little bastard .... although this could escalate into parental retalliation.


Hopefully he's still too young to be carrying a knife




Openly filming children, without the express permission of the parents, is undoubtedly illegal. You could try, but it may not be viewed favourably by authorities ...... but if you do it discreetly and get away with it, it could be useful - but could also backfire.


this is what I thought basically, other's have suggested filming but I said that I didn't think it would be legal......so I'll just have to tell my girls to defend themselves as need be. Hopefully he will start KT this summer and then the Frau's can try to sort him out!
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Old 09.06.2015, 02:37
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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I'm really fed up, actually my blood is boiling.
Am I allowed to video him assaulting other kids and take it to the Police?

....
I don't want to cause a mini war between them and us on our estate. .


Okay, very good that you don't want to cause a war. And since you know that your blood is boiling, that's not the best time or mood for a level-headed approach to the matter. Therefore, while you certainly do have to do SOMEthing, you don't yet know what. And you will be able to take that decision more clearly, more wisely if you can first manage to get that blood of yours back down to a nice, normal temperature.


As an immediate measure, I'd suggest you try hard to avoid his company for a few days. That'll most likely involve more effort on your part, and perhaps a feeling of being the weaker party (and keep you from much of a diary about him), but if you can organise it, take your children somewhere else to play, every day, if only for a fews days.


For the sake of your children, try NOT to escalate things in their minds, and do NOT say: "We can't play here at home, and now we have to hike all the way across the city, just because we have to get away from him." Rather, give them some other activity elsewhere, go for a picnic, down to the lakeside, for a tram-ride, out cycling, out for an ice-cream.


Getting away from him, and having a nice time out, could well help provide an emotional buffer, a break from his aggression, and will most likely effectively prevent either you or your children snapping and doing anything with bad consequences.


During that time, I’d recommend asking for advice at this organisation „domicil“, which was started about a decade ago as a project of the City of Zurich, to try to find ways to bring about greater peace and understanding amongst neighbours and landlords.
http://www.domicilwohnen.ch/index.php?siteId=64
They deal with intercultural neighbours all the time, and may be able to tell you about the legality or otherwise of taking any videos, and if you did, to whom you would present them, and with which legal claim (if any) and I'd hope they will be able to recommend steps you could take, such as perhaps putting you in touch with a mediator, etc.
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Old 09.06.2015, 08:09
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

I like the bucket of cold water approach. Seems that you have a macho larvae on your hands, sure to be a credit to Albanian culture in a few years, I remember some time ago there was a big kerfuffle in St. Gallen where an Albanian youth had knifed a Swiss guy and only got a mild punishment because, and I quote: "His actions were in part due to the knife culture of the Albanians" quote end.
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Old 09.06.2015, 09:54
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

If you're filming your own kids playing & he comes along and attacks them, I don't see how that can be illegal on your part. Or am I missing something?
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Old 09.06.2015, 09:59
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

Invest in an airsoft rifle and snipe the little bastard from the balcony.
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:09
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

Is this one development, with a residents/owners committee?

That would be an option to raise it - landlords are protective of their rent, so may take an interest in a family being anti-social and damaging the reputation of their area.
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:19
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

Back in the day any child that demonstrated wild behaviour and was seen to be suffering from inattentive parenting would have rehabiliated by the local paedophile.

How times have changed
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:24
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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Back in the day any child that demonstrated wild behaviour and was seen to be suffering from inattentive parenting would have rehabiliated by the local paedophile.

How times have changed
ergh, not the pedophile but probably one braver parent would have pulled him by his ears or something....now you have to call the police to deal with a 4 y.o. menace
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:50
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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ergh, not the pedophile but probably one braver parent would have pulled him by his ears or something....now you have to call the police to deal with a 4 y.o. menace
yeah. a good smack about the head could sort it out. i guess if you did that now, you'd land up in prison.
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:57
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

My Daughter got punched in the eye and had impaired eyesight for over a year.
The school didn't help so we went to the police they were amazing and took the case very seriously. The boy was young but it still went to court. Go to the police if you feel it's the right thing to do.
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Old 09.06.2015, 11:39
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

I think OPs childrens right to safety override any kind of right to privacy. That would mean it's fine to film, provided of course you don't publish the material in any way, and destroy any unnecessary stuff reasonably soon. And as has been said, if you film before the boy arrives (what a coincidence that you feel like filming them everytime you see the boy approach) it's difficult to see how that should be problematic.

I'm not sure if the police are the best government body to contact, they probably can't do much at this point as nothing serious has happened (yet). Plus, this is not just about OPs children but also about the boy, who has the right to be raised in "proper" manner (whatever that may mean). So perhaps the KESB (Kinder- und Erwachsenenschutzbehörde, formerly known as Vormundschaftsbehörde)(kesb-zh.ch, in german only) is your best bet.

Having said that, IMHO OP should teach her children to defend themselves, including physical force if necessary. They'll need to learn that anyway, it's an unavoidable part of life. So teaching them to team up and hit back may actually be the best route to take.
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Old 09.06.2015, 13:20
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

Thankyou to everyone for your replies.

My neighbour's husband will go and speak to the boys father today, and he is adament that he will contact social services if it carries on. As said the children are entitled to be raised correctly. They will probably get reported by the Kt if he carries on .

Thankyou for the group link also, my neighbour will read it later on as my German isn't good enough.

I will keep this post updated, with any relevant information, and yes I will just be filming my children one day for their Grandparents when he comes along.......
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Old 09.06.2015, 13:21
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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Having said that, IMHO OP should teach her children to defend themselves, including physical force if necessary. They'll need to learn that anyway, it's an unavoidable part of life. So teaching them to team up and hit back may actually be the best route to take.
Couldn't agree more with that, don't we remember anything from the time when we were kids?
So OP, not "gently push him away" kind of advice here...tell them they're two and they're stronger and can kick the bully's ass. It works wonders when dealing with bullies!
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Old 09.06.2015, 13:27
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Re: Small child attacking other children in the park!!!

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Having said that, IMHO OP should teach her children to defend themselves, including physical force if necessary. They'll need to learn that anyway, it's an unavoidable part of life. So teaching them to team up and hit back may actually be the best route to take.
Teach them to work in pairs; one keeps him occupied and interested whilst the second performs a flanking manoeuvre and takes him out from behind.
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