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  #81  
Old 16.06.2015, 17:18
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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Obviously, I have been referring to the Swiss who can speak English eloquently; that's why I put it up as a point of valid discussion. Ironically, the term "laziness" is more appropriately applicable to them (and probably some here too..)

And, yes, I am socially adaptable and care enough to learn German as a new hobby. If I care enough to make an effort, please reciprocate and make the same effort to speak your "fully-mastered" language, English, when the situations call for it.
But, as per your profile, you are German. What happened to you?, you weren't that good in your mother tongue, so you need refresher courses?
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  #82  
Old 16.06.2015, 17:22
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere. Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dame Choge-Ussländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter. Die andere händs ja au gschaft. Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

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Old 16.06.2015, 17:23
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere. Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dame Choge-Ussländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter. Die andere händs ja au gschaft. Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.
That's easy for you to say...
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  #84  
Old 16.06.2015, 18:07
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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That's easy for you to say...
Is it? When I arrived in the country I did not understand a single word, neither did the natives one of mine. I literally cried and cried. I was so scared I literally shat in my pants. But I was lucky, they spoon fed me and they though me the language like you would to a baby. I was learning quickly, but it was quite a shock. If remember correctly I could not walk for at least a year. It was a very traumatic experience.

OP is lucky if has not to go through all this...

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Old 16.06.2015, 18:31
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Now that I finally understand Swiss German, I just need to find some Swiss Germans who have something interesting to say.
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  #86  
Old 16.06.2015, 18:39
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

First off, I'd like to say that I'm sorry you're going through this. Feelings of being minimized, not included, or made to feel unimportant should be taken seriously, I would think, by any mature feeling adult. That said, I come here fully expecting that I'm going to feel that way some of the time. After all, I am visiting them in their own home, not the other way around. Still, it is so nice when the locals take into consideration that I am an American and, therefore, was extremely poorly educated when it came to other cultures and languages. And also, the nicer ones seem to consistently take into consideration that German is a damn hard language to learn, and, even though I am trying, it will not be next week or maybe even next year that I will finally be fluent.

I have found though, that, work aside, this is a nice way to filter people. The more intelligent, more educated, more internally secure and empathic people immediately make an effort to help me feel included and usually offer to help me with the huge task of learning German. I am also very outwardly pleased and over-the-top thankful when they speak to me in English and, I think, this sometimes has the effect of encouraging others to also try to speak to me in English. In this way, I immediately know who is worth having a relationship with and who may just not be ready or willing to cross the cultural bridge, even if I offer to dance with them in the middle!!

Work, on the other hand, is a whole other animal, and this is truly sad. But, still, I can't imagine taking another approach. Although, I'm sure there is one. I think if you make it a "victim" kind of thing or a big deal at work, then that's going to make it worse. If you shame others or are aggressive, that may backfire as well. So, I think I'd still go with the "punish with extreme ignoring/over-reward with extreme thankfulness and public praise" approach. I'd be interested to see if this works....please give us an update!
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Old 16.06.2015, 18:46
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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Now that I finally understand Swiss German, I just need to find some Swiss Germans who have something interesting to say.
they were saying all the interesting things before you learned the language, now they have to pay attention to what they are saying.

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Old 16.06.2015, 18:56
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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I have found though, that, work aside, this is a nice way to filter people. The more intelligent, more educated, more internally secure and empathic people immediately make an effort to help me feel included and usually offer to help me with the huge task of learning German. I am also very outwardly pleased and over-the-top thankful when they speak to me in English and, I think, this sometimes has the effect of encouraging others to also try to speak to me in English. In this way, I immediately know who is worth having a relationship with and who may just not be ready or willing to cross the cultural bridge, even if I offer to dance with them in the middle!!
I so agree- and yet- does this go both ways!? As much as I always try to really welcome people from elsewhere, and include them- I also believe that anyone who comes here (or goes anywhere away from 'back home')- should also have an open mind to a new culture, new ways, and an open mind to try and adapt and learn a new language. It has to be a two-way process... surely. I know Swiss who have lived in Spain for over 10 years and don't speak Spanish and I truly don't get it.

'I immediately know who is worth having a relationship with and who may just not be ready or willing to cross the cultural bridge' ... are you prepared and willing to cross that bridge, yourself?.... if not, can't you see how arrogant and superficial it all sounds...?

Last edited by Odile; 16.06.2015 at 20:38.
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Old 16.06.2015, 20:20
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere. Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dame UND Herre bitteschön, mir wönd jo nöd öpis gege s hützutags überall vorhandni Tschender-Mainstriiming mache, oder? Choge-Ussländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter. Die andere händs ja au gschaft. Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

Hesch bi dinere Ufzelig de Kantönligeist vergesse...

OK, back to the forum's main language...
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Old 16.06.2015, 20:24
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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OK, back to the forum's main language...
That's bullshit isn't it?
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  #91  
Old 16.06.2015, 21:04
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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I so agree- and yet- does this go both ways!? As much as I always try to really welcome people from elsewhere, and include them- I also believe that anyone who comes here (or goes anywhere away from 'back home')- should also have an open mind to a new culture, new ways, and an open mind to try and adapt and learn a new language. It has to be a two-way process... surely. I know Swiss who have lived in Spain for over 10 years and don't speak Spanish and I truly don't get it.

'I immediately know who is worth having a relationship with and who may just not be ready or willing to cross the cultural bridge' ... are you prepared and willing to cross that bridge, yourself?.... if not, can't you see how arrogant and superficial it all sounds...?
I think you may have missed my first paragraph, you know, the one where I introduce myself by saying that I expect to feel alone some of the time, that I AM LEARNING GERMAN.....????? Also, you specifically then leave out the second part of the sentence about the "bridge"....you know, the part where I "dance in the MIDDLE" WITH them?

So, you're taking half of what I say, then giving criticism that is clearly answered in the second half of what I say...now I know how people in the media feel! Seriously, what's the problem????
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Old 16.06.2015, 21:40
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Doc, my reply was in the context of the OP. The 'you' was more meant to be a 'one' and a general comment. Bonne chance with the German (s) learning.
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Old 16.06.2015, 21:48
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Whereas I do speak German and get the overall message, I can surely not be the only one who wouldn't mind a translation of this fine Swiss German message for the forum members who are like me living on the other side of the Rösti-Graben :-)
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Old 16.06.2015, 21:55
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere. Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dame Choge-Ussländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter. Die andere händs ja au gschaft. Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

Ooh a puzzle! I love trying to translate SD into HG. Here goes:

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Was für ein Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Lebe passieren. Übrigens, redet mehr da ja nord vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dame Choge-Ausländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gemeinsam Sprach sagt Schweizer-Deutsch, denn muss sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Ausländer ist schlecht und einfach aapase oder er geht unter. Die andere händs ja au geschaft. Schlecht und einfach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

I love trying to solve the "puzzle", so pleased with myself when I hear "bruuche"/"blieb"/"halbi nuuni" (and my favourite one I even say at home "ssh guet") and realise ahhh yes, they mean "brauche"/"bleib"/"halb neun"/("ist gut") however my progress working these words and phrases out is so painfully slow!

I only wish I could get more practice/exposure. All my SD friends speak good English and seem very eager to use it with me. I have some friends who can't speak English and I have to speak German with them but so far they are all not SD speakers themselves. so there I was thinking I do pretty good until last weekend I was at a school mums thing and was dismayed that my understanding of the conversation dropped from my usual 30-70% (depending on speaker) with to less than 5% because it was in SD. If I was the OP I would look upon the situation as it being to my advantage. Although I understand how tiring and draining it can be trying to keep up with a conversation you understand almost nothing of.
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Old 16.06.2015, 22:00
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Not to mention those of us in the French speaking part!
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Old 16.06.2015, 22:23
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Not bad Pixie.

Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere. Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dänne (%) Choge-Ussländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter. Die andere händs ja au gschaft. Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

Was für ein Kohl(#)-Faden. Reine Einbildung, so etwas würde nie im richtigen Leben passieren. Übrigens, reden wir hier ja nicht von Kuh-Schweizern sondern von diesen Kadaver(*)-Ausländer. Und wenn die das Gefühl haben, die gemeinsame Sprache sei Schweizer-Deutsch, dann muss sich halt der Neue, noch Aussenstehende, der auch Ausländer ist, schlicht und einfach anpassen oder er geht unter. Schlicht und einfach Sprach-Darwinismus oder ein Beispiel von verknorztem Denken, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

(%) This was a autocowreck.

(#) Chabis is literally Kohl (Cabbage), a Chabis-XYZ means stupid-XYZ, foolish-XYZ, nonsense-XYZ.

(*) Although, the literal translation of Chog is Kadaver it is more akin to the Australian bloody: http://ch.talk.moderated.narkive.com...oge-und-cheibe

Now Pixie in English please
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Old 16.06.2015, 23:25
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

[Just a quick headsup, OP got banned]

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Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere.
Utter nonsense. Pure imagination, this just doesn't happen in real life.

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Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dame denä Choge-Ussländer.
BTW, we're not talking about swiss rednecks, this is about them bloody forrigners.

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Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter.
So, since they (the rednecks. Grammatically "wenn die" refers to forrigners, but the context makes clear the rednecks are referred to) (feel) decide upon SD as common language, the newcomers, who also are outsiders and forrigners, simply have no choice but to adapt, lest they perish.

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Die andere händs ja au gschaft.
After all, their precursors made it as well.

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Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.
Simply put, this is linguistic darwinism, or an example for thoughts that are stuck in themselves, for egotism and cheap complacency.
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Old 16.06.2015, 23:34
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

Regarding xlation, not all of us live in Svizzerainterna, regardless of which side of the roesti-ditch.

Oddly, half my life I was a proud northerner, but now I am, ashamedly, a proud southerner!

(still will never have a rebel flag or HD, though)

Tom
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Old 16.06.2015, 23:38
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

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Not bad Pixie.

Was für än Chabis-Fadä. Puuri iibildig, so öppis würd nie im richtige Läbe passiere. Übrigens, redet mr da ja nöd vo Chue-Schwizer sondern vo dänne (%) Choge-Ussländer. Und wenn die s Gfühl händ die gmeinsami Sprach sägi Schwizer-Dütsch, denn muess sich halt dä Neui, no Ussestehendi wo au Usländer isch schlicht und eifach aapase oder er gaht unter. Die andere händs ja au gschaft. Schlicht und eifach Sprach Darwinismus oder es Biispil vo verchnorztem Dänke, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

Was für ein Kohl(#)-Faden. Reine Einbildung, so etwas würde nie im richtigen Leben passieren. Übrigens, reden wir hier ja nicht von Kuh-Schweizern sondern von diesen Kadaver(*)-Ausländer. Und wenn die das Gefühl haben, die gemeinsame Sprache sei Schweizer-Deutsch, dann muss sich halt der Neue, noch Aussenstehende, der auch Ausländer ist, schlicht und einfach anpassen oder er geht unter. Schlicht und einfach Sprach-Darwinismus oder ein Beispiel von verknorztem Denken, Egoismus und billiger Selbstgfälligkeit.

(%) This was a autocowreck.

(#) Chabis is literally Kohl (Cabbage), a Chabis-XYZ means stupid-XYZ, foolish-XYZ, nonsense-XYZ.

(*) Although, the literal translation of Chog is Kadaver it is more akin to the Australian bloody: http://ch.talk.moderated.narkive.com...oge-und-cheibe

Now Pixie in English please
OK! The words I have put in brackets were the ones I had to check on google translate. The rest I translated myself (probs why it still makes no sense hahaha. PLease correct it for me!) I hadn't realised "schlicht" was a word, I thought it was SD for "schlecht". That one will stick tonight thanks I learned a new word!

What a cabbage (thread). (pure conceit) something would never happen in the right life. By the way, we speak here not of cow-Swiss(??) but of these cadaver foreigners (?) And when they feel like, the community language (was) Swiss German, then you must (just) the new, yet (outsiders), that are also foreigners, (simple) and easy adaptations or he goes under. Simple and easy language-(Darwinism) (??) or an example of (verknortztem????) thinking, egoism and cheaper (self maturity)

Edit URS MAX has provided a less crude translation hehe thanks urs max
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Old 16.06.2015, 23:47
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Re: Speaking swiss german in presence of non-Swiss

haha just tried copy and pasting the whole paragraph into google translate, it comes out only slightly better than my translation! hurrah I'm nearly as good as google already haha.
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