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Old 15.06.2015, 16:53
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very bad experience with techmania.ch

Hi,
After my latest email conversation with someone from http://www.techmania.ch/, I feel like sharing my experience with others.

Facts:
On the 23/12/2014 at 17h21, I am trying with last minute Christmas purchases and buy a "oral-B electronic tooth brush", paying immediately with my Post Finance card.
Then I also make another purchase, separate just in case they are delaying shipping, of a "parrot Zik 2.0 headset", at 23/12/2014 17h23.

I received nothing, no email, no packet, no information.


On the 31/12/2014 14h30, I received an email saying that the order corresponding to the toothbrush is not valid because "On the When purchased items there was a database error (price errors, artifacts, etc.) why your order was stopped and can not be processed".

I replied saying that since we have a sale contract, I was willing to be reasonable and accept some small compensation. For example, some voucher, or a small item.If not, they will have to deliver the items I ordered.

They replied that (19.9chf) "was a completely unpossible price for an electronic toothbrush". To which I replied that I have used toppreise.ch which show that "electronic toothbrushes" can be purchased from 10.90chf plus shipping charges, like "BRAUN Oral-B AdvancePower 900". As for the Braun oral-B ProfessionalCare 3000, it can be found from 85.30, without promotion, still as per "toppreise.ch" as a quick comparison.



As for order number 2, I informed them that I still received nothing and that I will take legal action if they are not shipping the item.

Afterwards, we exchanged a few emails, without any consideration from them. They attempted to get away with a refund for the toothbrush and told me on the 5th january 2015 that the other order was "still in process, there we informed you that the article is not on stock at the moment but the order has been processed as usual"



On the 15/06/2015 11h49, so nearly 7 months later*, they are telling me that "unfortunately that the article
is sold out and no longer has to be ordered at the respective manufacturers."
.
No excuses, no compensation, no efforts.

After a few emails, they are event telling me what I ordered something else, something unrelated to the headset and which is not described in the "order confirmation pdf": some "ipad" cover or something.

* Yes, I emailed them a few times in January, then I had to go to hospital several times and frankly had no time or energy to bother with that. Also, since they told me to wait, I waited more than reasonable delay.

In the meantime I also consulted my legal assistance, and I know what to do next.


But I wanted to share the experience with techmania.ch:

-Extremely slow response time

-Terrible customer service

-No excuses after such delays, no apologies

-Responses provided in email far from being understanding of the situation

-AGB (Terms and Conditions) with elements which are not respecting the sale contract's balance since they have planned a 50chf administration fee for "order cancellation" (administrative fee) which they refuse to apply when the cancellation is initiated by them.

-Lies (cf that it's impossible to find an electronic toothbrush for 19chf)

-Locking my money for almost 7 months without any status update within that period.

Do you find that is acceptable? I don't.


Well, I wish I purchased on digitec.ch or microspot.ch, I never had any problems with those 2 main sellers.
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Old 15.06.2015, 17:02
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

Wow. They're willing to lose customers for 20 freakin' francs. That's hard man. No, that's st*pid. Thanks, it shows how much they are willing to "stretch" for customer service.

And last February I bought an Oral-B electric toothbrush for 14.90EUR in the French border.
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Old 15.06.2015, 18:08
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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In the meantime I also consulted my legal assistance, and I know what to do next.
If I were you, I'd send a registered letter, stating your case and mentioning legal action, to :

Andi Gröbli, Geschäftsleiter
Techmania AG
Industriestrasse 8
8625 Gossau/ZH
Tel. 044 975 35 37

Email is : andyg@techmania.ch but this might be ignored.

These people need some fire under their bums!
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Old 15.06.2015, 18:36
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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If I were you, I'd send a registered letter, stating your case and mentioning legal action, to :

Andi Gröbli, Geschäftsleiter
Techmania AG
Industriestrasse 8
8625 Gossau/ZH
Tel. 044 975 35 37

Email is : andyg@techmania.ch but this might be ignored.

These people need some fire under their bums!
Mentioning legal action for under 20 CHF, what planet are you on?
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Old 15.06.2015, 18:48
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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Mentioning legal action for under 20 CHF, what planet are you on?
Second order was not 19.9chf but almost 45chf.

Anyway, it's not about the amount is about not respecting our sale contract twice, taking liberties in regards of my order, lying and showing disrespect.

I offered very reasonable options which were not even accepted, such as applying the same conditions described in the AGB when the customer want to cancel an order.

Anyway, I understand you don't feel "it's worth" it, but life is short, and I don't like anyone to disrespect my sales contracts.

And unfortunately, these type of people are having those behavior because people are "giving up" like you are suggesting.

Anyway, we have legal insurance also.

Cheers,
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Old 15.06.2015, 19:04
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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Mentioning legal action for under 20 CHF, what planet are you on?
Never mind the principles, I see.
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Old 15.06.2015, 19:56
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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Never mind the principles, I see.
While you clearly mean to be sarcastic, I'd tend to agree with the other poster - as far as I can tell the OP's not actually out of pocket at all, but was just messed around with in two completely different cases.

So is it worth making such a fuss if there's no financial loss, not even twenty francs? Not in my opinion; principles are fine, but life's too short to use precious time like this when there's other things that could be done with it.
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Old 15.06.2015, 20:17
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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While you clearly mean to be sarcastic, I'd tend to agree with the other poster - as far as I can tell the OP's not actually out of pocket at all, but was just messed around with in two completely different cases.

So is it worth making such a fuss if there's no financial loss, not even twenty francs? Not in my opinion; principles are fine, but life's too short to use precious time like this when there's other things that could be done with it.
Well, let's not debate on the morality.
I understand that for some people it's not "worth the efforts".

But do not forget that they have not respected our sale contract, that they have not delivered my Christmas order, that they have caused me stress, troubles and efforts, and that they are disrespecting the customer's rights (ie mine), on top of not even apologising or explaing why the order "following it's normal process" has taken them 7 months to provide an answer. Also, even for obtaining anwers on my order's statuses, I had to waste hours in efforts, reading the law, contacting legal insurance, writing answers... All that for attempting to obtain what I purchased.

I feel that not only it's "messing me around", but it's also worth to share the negative experience to warn others. Unfortunately it happened (to me) and I wish I had read such a topic to be cautious and consider another seller.

I often read similar experiences on various forum, and even if some are fallacious or can be discarded due to customer "unrealistic expectations", I don't think I am being unfair or unrealistic here.

Like I mentioned earlier, I never experienced something like that in Digitec.ch or Microspot, I strongly regret trying techmania.

Let's hope it helps others to make the correct choice!
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Old 15.06.2015, 20:35
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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Never mind the principles, I see.
It's not about principle. Starting legal action over 20chf is just stupid, and could well end up leaving you way more than 20chf out of pocket.

Waiting 7 months for a toothbrush (or whatever order) is also no less brainless, Corsebou should have got his money back asap and just voted with his wallet, bought the stuff somewhere else, and never bought anything from Techmania ever again. Instead he willingly chose to drag it on as long as he possibly could, and simply create more stress for himself.

Utterly pointless.

Last edited by Richdog; 16.06.2015 at 10:06.
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Old 16.06.2015, 09:54
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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It's not about principle. Starting legal action over 20chf is just stupid, and could well end up leaving you way more than 20chf out of pocket.

Waiting 7 months for a toothbrush is also no less brainless, Corsebou should have got his money back asap and just voted with his wallet, bought the stuff somewhere else, and never bought anything from Techmania ever again. Instead he willingly chose to drag it on as long as he possibly could, and simply create more stress for himself.

Utterly pointless.
Hi,
I understand that you find this "pointless". Let agree to disagree.
As for the details, I was not waiting for a "toothbrush" for 7 months, but for the other order, the headset.

And like I mentioned they told me to wait, and that the order was out of stock, but that I it was following it's normal process.

7 months for a Christmas order, no apologies, nothing.

The problem is simple: if one does nothing then it empower them to do the same to everyone, since they can just try, keep the money for a while, and see what's going on.

Anyway, you might find pointless my actions in regards to the shop, but this topic is far from being pointless as it's sharing a real experience with an online Swiss retailer.

I learnt the hard way, let's hope that others won't have to do the same.
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Old 16.06.2015, 10:14
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

lol first world problems
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Old 16.06.2015, 10:31
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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The problem is simple: if one does nothing then it empower them to do the same to everyone, since they can just try, keep the money for a while, and see what's going on.
That's the principle I'm thinking of... and people then wonder why customer service is bad if such attitudes from businesses are acceptable.
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Old 16.06.2015, 10:41
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

The first item was clearly mispriced, and according to the law they have the right to cancel orders in this case.

You admit that the item should have costed 85 CHF - so you were expecting a 75%+ discount? And then use an example of a completely different item to justify the price? Next time I see somewhere with a price-match offer I'll try it, maybe I can get a Ferarri for the price of a Polo.

On the other one - you waited 7 months, and you're complaining that they are slow? And you order it on 23rd December but still say it was a Christmas item?

I get that you are annoyed, but on the first item I don't think you have a leg to stand on, and on the second why not just ask for the money back?
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Old 16.06.2015, 10:51
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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That's the principle I'm thinking of... and people then wonder why customer service is bad if such attitudes from businesses are acceptable.
No-one is arguing with the principle, obviously that is basic common chuffing sense... the point is that principle over something like this does not make it worth getting into protracted correspondence or potential legal action. Not even slightly worth it.

Stores like that know full well they give customers the run around, and they do not give a ****. The best thing you can do is simply not choose to shop there, and provide feedback to others about it.

The point is that Corsebou wasted 7 months stressing himself completely unnecessarily, it was absolutely pointless and just unfortunately shows his self-inflictive mentality in allowing something so inconsequential to drag on for so long. On some level, whatsver reasons he believes in, he enjoys these pointless little battles with uncaring entities. Glutton for punishment, I guess.
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Old 16.06.2015, 11:08
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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The first item was clearly mispriced, and according to the law they have the right to cancel orders in this case.

You admit that the item should have costed 85 CHF - so you were expecting a 75%+ discount? And then use an example of a completely different item to justify the price? Next time I see somewhere with a price-match offer I'll try it, maybe I can get a Ferarri for the price of a Polo.

On the other one - you waited 7 months, and you're complaining that they are slow? And you order it on 23rd December but still say it was a Christmas item?

I get that you are annoyed, but on the first item I don't think you have a leg to stand on, and on the second why not just ask for the money back?
Well, for the first item the situation is more complex than you are mentioning. First, at the time of purchase I was not aware that the item was "85chf", I did some last minute Christmas shopping, seen a price which was acceptable for a electronic toothbrush, made the purchase, and that's it.
I only checked the price, after that the customer service person told me that "19chf was impossible price for an electronic toothbrush".

As for the decision on the "price mistake", it's not you or me to decide, but a judge.
The law is clear, the "price mistake" is covered by Item 23 of the Code des Obligations. The seller is removed from the contract's obligations only if they can prove an obvious error.
So was it an obvious error? It's not my opinion, nor the one from a Swiss customer's association jurist, who mentioned "that the error is not obvious since it's common to find such price difference in the market, for example due to a promotion".

Nonetheless, I proposed them to accept the "alleged error", in exchange of a small compensation or a voucher.

They claim it's impossible and they are within their rights, ignoring our sale contract and acting as judge.


As for the second item, I was told to wait for stocks. I was not in a hurry, and I was quite busy with personal situation, including several hospital visits. I did send reminders emails in January, but they told me everything was ok with the order.

They told me to wait, do you find acceptable that they only inform me 7 months later?

Why not accepting Money back? because that's one of the options I have, but it's too easy for them and that it means I am the one who has to give up on the contract we made. I don't do that. Especially not with their arrogant attitude and their allegations that they are doing everything according to the laws.

Why don't they offer apologies? That would have been a good start.

Also,the law mention, somewhere around item 191 of Code des obligations, that I am liable to compensation.

Anyway, I had to bother dealing with customer services, wasting time and effort, even back in January when everything was "normal" (according to their customer service).

So it's kind of too late for a refund, I had wasted already tens of hours with them, I accepted to waste many more.
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Old 16.06.2015, 11:20
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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On the other one - you waited 7 months, and you're complaining that they are slow? And you order it on 23rd December but still say it was a Christmas item?
Perhaps Techmania has assumed that it was an order for this year's Christmas.
They still have 6 months to go
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Old 16.06.2015, 11:20
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

Just take the money back and never shop with them again.

Surely you have something better to do with your time and energy?
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Old 16.06.2015, 11:35
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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As for the decision on the "price mistake", it's not you or me to decide, but a judge.
This is true, but as you have stated you position and they theirs, your only option is to put it in front of a judge in court.

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Nonetheless, I proposed them to accept the "alleged error", in exchange of a small compensation or a voucher.

They claim it's impossible and they are within their rights, ignoring our sale contract and acting as judge.
The law is equally clear that the contract can be cancelled, not that you have any right to compensation.

They are not acting as judge any more than you are - if you want to put it in front of a real judge you have that right.

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They told me to wait, do you find acceptable that they only inform me 7 months later?
No absolutely not, but equally if you didn't complain they may believe you are happy waiting.

I would expect a full refund within 48 hours if demanded, but if they ask you to wait and you don't respond, what should they assume?

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Why don't they offer apologies? That would have been a good start.
Uh, how long have you lived here? Apology??? TIS

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Also,the law mention, somewhere around item 191 of Code des obligations, that I am liable to compensation.
Only in the case of material loss - you could possibly claim interest on the money, at 0.0001% or whatever you would get in a bank account.

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So it's kind of too late for a refund, I had wasted already tens of hours with them, I accepted to waste many more.
You may want to look up some management concepts around sunk costs, or more colloquially "banging your head against a brick wall" or "throwing good money after bad".
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:00
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

Since you want to take it to he judge:

You can definitely find electric toothbrushes in the 20-30CHF region, for instance the Oral-B Vitality Precision. This K-tipp article shows that it's nothing new, Müller Sensident price is given as 10CHF.

techmania.ch uses rebates. And they openly admit to not giving everybody the same price, at a given time. see this article.
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:13
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Re: very bad experience with techmania.ch

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Since you want to take it to he judge:

You can definitely find electric toothbrushes in the 20-30CHF region, for instance the Oral-B Vitality Precision. This K-tipp article shows that it's nothing new, Müller Sensident price is given as 10CHF.

techmania.ch uses rebates. And they openly admit to not giving everybody the same price, at a given time. see this article.
I think you'd have to prove that the price offered was not a reasonable one for that model, not any toothbrush in general. Here I suspect you would have a problem.

Unfortunately having dreadful customer service and poor communication isn't a crime (in law, even if it's a crime against their customers), so the only thing the judge would look at is 19.90 CHF vs 85 CHF and their terms and conditions. Unless it's on a shelf in Migros with a bunch of other unwanted tat, 75% is a very high reduction; maybe if it was a real hard sell special offer, but it doesn't sound like it was.
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