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Old 21.06.2015, 14:05
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Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

Regrettably, first really bad experience on Ricardo. A seller in Kerzers insufficiently packed a stone-topped raclette grill and when it arrived, the top was broken in two. Immediately sent a photograph and asked for a refund. As she had 100% positive evaluation, I wrote and said it would be a pity if negative evaluation was given for the first time {by me} so if she would refund the whole amount, we would even give her positive evaluation and everyone would be satisfied.
Long story short, it turns out she is a policewoman : she wrote a hugely long email saying "blackmail is punishable under Swiss law up to 10 years in prison, even if it is only for CHF10.--"! She even copied in her work place, being the Polizei Kt. Bern.
Firstly, we would have thought the Polizei Kt. Bern had other things to worry about {well, we hope they have} than 10.-- worth of Ricardo goodies and secondly, it is not frowned upon to use one's workplace email address for personal transactions on Ricardo?
Input would be interesting for which TIA
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Old 21.06.2015, 14:13
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

This is the type of story that 20minuten.ch or Blick would like to publish. How tax-payer money is used to help police conduct private transactions.....I hope email was sent during work hours for the icing on the cake.
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Old 21.06.2015, 14:26
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

I also wonder if any court would take the threat of giving rep. points, in the virtual world, as blackmail.

Anyway - you're not in Switzerland (apparently) - so that makes you one of Elliot Ness' boys.
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Old 21.06.2015, 14:27
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

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she wrote a hugely long email saying "blackmail is punishable under Swiss law up to 10 years in prison, even if it is only for CHF10.--"!
You made a stupid mistake (your description of your proceedings can really be read and interpreted two ways, easily). In response, she is trying to bully you.

Nothing has happened so far, no innocent lambs have been killed, no tax money waste, no police state involved, only emotions and hurt feelings.

Pick up the phone and try to communicate like adults.
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Old 21.06.2015, 14:40
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

I would post it back to her with a note, that items sold under Swiss law must be of merchandisable quality, i.e. they must be in working order. She has failed to supply an item in good working order and you demand your money back, plus postage.

Send a copy of all mails to Ricardo.
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Old 21.06.2015, 15:10
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

you over-prescribed the solution to the situation. Had you just said "oh look, sorry, this is how it arrived - what do you propose?" then this would not have happened.
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Old 21.06.2015, 16:08
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

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you over-prescribed the solution to the situation. Had you just said "oh look, sorry, this is how it arrived - what do you propose?" then this would not have happened.
Agreed, it was pointless to mentioned the reputation system at this point of communication. You would probably have a better first reaction from the seller.

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Old 21.06.2015, 16:23
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

I see your (innocent and trying to be helpful) reasoning, but it's a big no-no to offer reviews or feedback reputation based on a refund, and some sites explicitly forbid it in their rules.

Making it a police matter is her gobbling off, and I'm pretty sure using your employer as a threat is probably also not entirely above board for a police officer.
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Old 21.06.2015, 17:30
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

How did you pay for it? If it is paypal, you can ask for Buyers protection. It helped me before on Ebay.
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Old 21.06.2015, 17:45
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

No. AFAIK Ricardo do not operate the PayPal system so it was a bank transfer.
Thinking about the comments {thank you} hindsight is a wonderful thing and believe me, the same set of circumstances will not happen again, but as this was the first bad experience on Ricardo, it came as something of a shock.
BTW this Polizistin actually retracted her {already given} positive Bewertung.
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Old 21.06.2015, 17:50
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

Totally aside the above issue- a practical tip. If you know of a funeral stone mason- take the 2 parts of the stone to him and see how much he would charge to cut you the right size piece in a suitable material to replace. We've done this before with an electric heater with a stone top.
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Old 21.06.2015, 18:15
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

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Totally aside the above issue- a practical tip. If you know of a funeral stone mason- take the 2 parts of the stone to him and see how much he would charge to cut you the right size piece in a suitable material to replace. We've done this before with an electric heater with a stone top.
If it costs more than 30 chufs, don't bother.

http://www.landi.ch/laden/deu/sortim...ista-70799?c=9
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Old 21.06.2015, 18:22
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

I have copied and posted the relevant remarks she has made.
Does anyone know please what this email address signifies? Is it her personal email log-in detail?
Although this has left such a nasty taste, I am reluctant to really take it any further. Will probably just buy a new one from the Landi.
Just interested in your various reactions :

Erpressung Art. 156
1.
Wer in der Absicht, sich oder einen andern unrechtmässig zu bereichern, jemanden durch Gewalt oder Androhung ernstlicher Nachteile zu einem Verhalten bestimmt, wodurch dieser sich selber oder einen andern am Vermögen schädigt, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder Geldstrafe bestraft.
2.
Handelt der Täter gewerbsmässig oder erpresst er die gleiche Person fortgesetzt,

so wird er mit Freiheitsstrafe von einem Jahr bis zu zehn Jahren bestraft.
3.
Wendet der Täter gegen eine Person Gewalt an oder bedroht er sie mit einer gegenwärtigen Gefahr für Leib und Leben, so richtet sich die Strafe nach Artikel 140.
4.
Droht der Täter mit einer Gefahr für Leib und Leben vieler Menschen oder mit schwerer Schädigung von Sachen, an denen ein hohes öffentliches Interesse besteht, so wird er mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter einem Jahr10 bestraft.

Falls Sie noch Fragen haben, können Sie mich auch im Geschäft unter: [Email Removed] erreichen (siehe CC).

Last edited by mirfield; 21.06.2015 at 19:01. Reason: Email Removed
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Old 21.06.2015, 18:29
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

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I have copied and posted the relevant remarks she has made.
Does anyone know please what this email address signifies? Is it her personal email log-in detail?
Although this has left such a nasty taste, I am reluctant to really take it any further. Will probably just buy a new one from the Landi.
Just interested in your various reactions :

Erpressung Art. 156
1.
Wer in der Absicht, sich oder einen andern unrechtmässig zu bereichern, jemanden durch Gewalt oder Androhung ernstlicher Nachteile zu einem Verhalten bestimmt, wodurch dieser sich selber oder einen andern am Vermögen schädigt, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder Geldstrafe bestraft.
2.
Handelt der Täter gewerbsmässig oder erpresst er die gleiche Person fortgesetzt,

so wird er mit Freiheitsstrafe von einem Jahr bis zu zehn Jahren bestraft.
3.
Wendet der Täter gegen eine Person Gewalt an oder bedroht er sie mit einer gegenwärtigen Gefahr für Leib und Leben, so richtet sich die Strafe nach Artikel 140.
4.
Droht der Täter mit einer Gefahr für Leib und Leben vieler Menschen oder mit schwerer Schädigung von Sachen, an denen ein hohes öffentliches Interesse besteht, so wird er mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter einem Jahr10 bestraft.

Falls Sie noch Fragen haben, können Sie mich auch im Geschäft unter: [Email Removed] erreichen (siehe CC).
Quote:
Blackmail article 156 1.
Who will be punished in the intention of unlawfully enriching himself or another, by force or threat of serious disadvantages to a behavior determines someone making this harms himself or another of the assets, with imprisonment up to five years or a fine.
2. the perpetrator is professional or he blackmailed the same person continued, so he is punished up to ten years imprisonment of one year.
3. the perpetrator against a person uses violence or he threatened them with a present danger to life and limb, the penalty varies according to article 140. 4. threatens the offender a danger to life and limb of many people or he will be punished with severe damage of things where there is a high level of public interest, with imprisonment not under a Jahr10.

If you have any questions, you can contact me also in the business see: [Email Removed] reach (see CC).
I don't see anything about threatening to give a bad rep on an Internet page.

Last edited by mirfield; 21.06.2015 at 19:03. Reason: Email Removed from Quoted Text
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Old 21.06.2015, 18:39
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

She's a cop not a lawyer. It would not be a criminal matter as it's not blackmail. At best, it could be considered coercion but any judge would kick it out.....if it got that far.

She doesn't need to give up the day job
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Old 21.06.2015, 23:06
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

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Does anyone know please what this email address signifies?
Whatever - she wants to strong-arm you as a result of you coming across a tad bit too strongly.

Ignore all that legal / law / I am police noise (it is hot air) and
* apologize for your misleading choice of words
* clarify your intent
* continue whatever you think is right and just

If you want to retaliate and get onto an escalation path, the magic words are "Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde" and "Amtsmissbrauch".

Recommendation, again: Try to find a level of communication that is worthy of adults. It is up to you to initiate this.
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Old 22.06.2015, 00:49
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Re: Bad expierience on Ricardo [not their fault]

See daffy99 above.

This reminds me of another recent thread, where the other OP repeatedly parked in somebody's parking lot, eventually got her license plate stolen by the tenant, and some on here insisted on reporting the tenant to the police - no reason to escalate like that.

With that said:
Both coercion and extortion (StGB §181 and §156) require threatening with "seriously detrimental consequences". I completely fail to see how bad rep'ing on Ricardo would qualify. Use of the office mail address may be OK, the government may allow that for occasional personal use (or not, dunno) - however using it in a dispute like this where she throws around legal mumbo jumbo certainly throws an odd light.

Her being a policewoman (or not) is completely irrelevant to your trade. If anything, as mentioned by duffy99, that would constitute Amtsmissbrauch (abuse of power of office?). Particularly, her trying to intimidate you by using her (perceived) professional knowledge in conjunction with her police email address.

Subject to how you phrased your mail, I'd tend to not apologize. I'd probably mention some of the above. But I definitely would offer to start over, no reason for you to (like she did) go over the top for some silly 10CHF item. Nonetheless I would try to get my 10CHF back. Once she realizes her over-reaction you have a fair chance.

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Police work 24/7. The time it was sent appears to be meaningless.
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