Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.06.2015, 02:00
frankwolfe's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 36
Groaned at 10 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 9 Posts
frankwolfe has made some interesting contributions
Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Hypothesis: Apps are vehicles for sexual racism


To those who are not used to the gay scene/apps, there is one famous app called Grindr.
I just came back from London and most of my mates were complaining about "London's Racist Gay Scene."

In the early hours of the morning on the 20.06.15, I received a message on grindr with the following questions (see picture attached)

"Are you a refugee? How is the food they serve you? Do you carry Ebola?"

I froze in my thoughts for some seconds. Is this happening again? During my 8 years between Kanton's Argaau and Zurich (7 yrs), I was subjected to similar remarks both through gay sites and in public speaking.

I did not feel angry and if the sender was hoping I would commit suicide, then he needs to try harder.

But this message rekindled earlier memories during my early stay in Zurich. Yes, I have/had experienced racism in the gay scene and also in my partnership.

- I have been called many sorts of racist names on apps; from African monkey to Ape
- Statements like, "does a monkey want some banana?" " I love nigger cock" " Come on I am not police you know, show me your gun ( dick)"
- what are you doing in Zurich, it is very expensive for an African like you.
- You blacks are here only to beg for money in the name of love, you are just good in bed, good to and nothing more...

I can go on with the list. My partner even told me I was good just to be in bed. At that time ( now he is a repented man and I had to leave that 5 years of abusive relationship) he use to tell me to go back to the African pile of dirt. To him, Africa was a pile of dirt of a society filled with useless, careless people who spend time begging for money from the developed world. They were just good for nothing and it did not dawn on him that his partner was African and even during our relationship, when he cheated, he did so with other African guys abroad, in Swiss or in Africa.

Sometimes, I am more conscious of my skin color than my sexuality. Even in the Zurich gay scene, most of the times I was being approached at the bar or in the club, was when I was asked if I supplied drugs to which when I said no, it seemed I was a disgrace to the supplier drug culture scene.

I often get messages like:

- I like black guys; I have never had sex with a black guy; my sweet little black boy; I love the taste of black skin
Some "white men" presume black guys to have large cocks and to be sexually aggressive in bed, thereby satisfying the fantasies of these men/guys.

Most guys/men ruled me out for a relationship. Black is synonymous to expensive, voodoo. Some of us are a reduction to their savings but some will be ready to keep us if we can satisfy them in bed. Some "whitemen" or guys worship the black skin and this makes me scared. I remember I was being stalked twice in 2009 and 2015 by two different men just because they wanted to "feel the black skin". One wanted me to be his sex slave and the other wanted me to be his Slave Master.

In the early periods of my relationship with one of my Exs, I was referred to as his black boyfriend. I used to work in the kitchen of a restaurant to help pay my school fees. There was one occasion whereby I was denied to attend diner with the friends of my ex because 1) I was good for the kitchen ( meaning my socio-economic status was not same as theirs); 2) There was nothing much I could offer on the dining table, even though my ex phoned me and told me I should come because I am his partner; 3) they are not interested in blacks especially me because they thought I cast a spell on my ex and was controlling him when in fact they were jealous that he was with me.
In 2011 I took 2 years off and went to UK for further studies (waste of time because I was running away from my abusive relationship) came back to Zurich, and got a job in the Finance department of an American company; these so called friends wanted me now on the dining table with them.

Even some of the policemen had been rude to me; about a month ago, I was stopped and asked where I came from. When I told them, one of the policemen who by the way works out at the same gym as I, bent over and asked me what am I doing in Zurich given I come from Africa, why "can't we black people, you Africans stay in your country?". I smiled and replied "Sir, it is called immigration, if you have any problem with that, talk to my lawyer."

All these memories and more came rushing through my mind, just because of this one message. I have been questioning myself, whats with the black skin, dick, smell? Why would some people be prejudice, racist and objectionable and yet sleep or fantasize about the people they objectify? Why would someone like my ex abuse me, hit me, wound me and tell me that I am no good, I don't merit to study in this country, I am just a handsome useless er or all the insults he spewed against my parents and the African population and yet during his secret trips, he could be seen in Ghana and Kenya? Why?

Why do most men in Zurich and I mean those who claim to be discrete from the ages of 45 above, immediately think that all black guys are escorts or miserable, therefore they need money, so they have to propose money for sex ( maybe I should take and then tell them I am not an escort)

On the other hand, what image have some of my brethren portrayed to these men which pushes them to categorize and belittle us?

Why is it that some people draw the line and do not realize that they are standing on the wrong side?

I and other black gay men find that racism on the gay scene to outweigh homophobia within Black communities ( which is very small in Zurich and huge in London which I visit often)

I often feel I am "sexualised" and objectified and used as ‘accessories’ for some "white men."


Most of the times, especially in the Zurich gay scene, I feel like I am not recognized as a whole person and once the sex is over I am discarded.

While Latinos are described as hot lovers, we are described as hot ers, just good with the tool within our legs.

I think that the gay scene is segmented and elitist and this can have an impact on my self-esteem. It is scary sometimes and I feel lonely but it is better to live in a homophobic society and pretend to be Hetero than live in a racist community which reminds you to check your skin and its accessories for identification.
Attached Thumbnails
racism-objectification-gay-scene-zurich-switzerland-img_1278.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.06.2015, 08:42
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,924
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 6,395 Times in 2,931 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

are you not skilled in sarcastic putdowns?

and it's not a unique problem, you should try being a famous female of some description on Twitter. Keyboard warriors are brave when they think they're anonymous.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sean Connery for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 22.06.2015, 08:59
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,064
Groaned at 295 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 5,182 Times in 1,851 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

LMFAO. What a start to a Monday morning.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 22.06.2015, 10:08
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Mitteland
Posts: 99
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
kaciak is considered knowledgeablekaciak is considered knowledgeablekaciak is considered knowledgeable
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Well.. It does not happen just to dark skinned people, mind you.
Happens to asian too.
Sometimes - if not often - LGBT people are more racist than str8!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22.06.2015, 10:25
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,773
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

I wouldn't of thought that the overall quality of individuals on grindr (a virtual meat market) would be that high
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 22.06.2015, 10:43
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,860
Groaned at 169 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 8,902 Times in 3,984 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't have thought that the overall quality of individuals on grindr (a virtual meat market) would be that high
Fixed that for you. Grrr

@OP: I think it just shows that their are ignorant people in all walks of life, and I don't imagine the gay scene to be much different, unless there's some sort of BDSM thing being implied. There are trolls in all walks of life, on all sorts of forums, so you just have to develop a thick skin, I'm afraid.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:20
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,773
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
Fixed that for you. Grrr
My bad Ace1



Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 646
Groaned at 21 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 196 Posts
sam ali has earned the respect of manysam ali has earned the respect of manysam ali has earned the respect of many
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
Well.. It does not happen just to dark skinned people, mind you.
Happens to asian too.
Sometimes - if not often - LGBT people are more racist than str8!
Judgemental, maybe. Racist, no.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:38
Pixie B's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SZ
Posts: 941
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 729 Times in 302 Posts
Blog Entries: 23
Pixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

I'm a white woman but there is one thing I can relate to:

Quote:
View Post
I often feel I am "sexualised" and objectified and used as ‘accessories’ for some "white men."
.
Except switch the "white men" for "straight men" (and yes you are right it's some, not all)

It's a long time since I was single but I encountered this a lot, it seemed like a large proportion of guys would do the sexualisation/objectification/accessory thing. It's frustrating, i was very young at the time I felt it was something my "sisters" and I had to just put up with. It doesn't seem right though that anyone should have to put up with it.

If you are wanting to settle down and leave the scene (at least the dating aspect of it) then I wish you all the best in finding a good guy. I'm sorry i don't have any really useful advice!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12.07.2015, 04:15
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 24
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
topsy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

That's awful! I'm so sorry that this all happened to you.

Edit: It looks like you can report folks who violate the TOS (which prohibits racial harassment) to Grindr. Here's how to do it.

Last edited by topsy; 12.07.2015 at 04:33.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12.07.2015, 07:14
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,984
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,269 Times in 5,015 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

"Wouldn't have" instead of "wouldn't of" is grammar police, not pedantry. Just to be pedantic.

Quote:
View Post
I'm a white woman but there is one thing I can relate to:



Except switch the "white men" for "straight men" (and yes you are right it's some, not all)...
So the take home lesson from this thread is - all* men are bastards.



* some, not all
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12.07.2015, 07:51
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,611
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,974 Times in 4,533 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
Fixed that for you. Grrr

@OP: I think it just shows that their are ignorant people in all walks of life...
Oh Ace, what have you done? (to paraphrase Oasis)... you've undone your fine grammar policing...

Sorry to be so late with this. I just stumbled upon this thread.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 12.07.2015, 08:47
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,984
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,269 Times in 5,015 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
Oh Ace, what have you done? (to paraphrase Oasis)... you've undone your fine grammar policing...

Sorry to be so late with this. I just stumbled upon this thread.
According to New Scientist, this is known as prosaic justice.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 12.07.2015, 11:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 210 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
Sometimes - if not often - LGBT people are more racist than str8!
I like the sometimes. The gay scene is far more straight forward and to your face than society in general will ever be. Whatever is around in society will be thrown at you far more directly in the gay scene than anywhere else. It's true for everything, the OP giving the negative example of racism or better said racial stereotypes. But this is the same with positive attention, other kinds of negative attentions etc. It's just the way people communicate that is different and quite a shock for non-initiated. The actual racism, ignorance, sexism, even homophobia is the same as anywhere else in society. In the gay scene, you just get it right in the face rather than with a big smile and tons of euphemisms like in the rest of society.

Quote:
View Post
I often feel I am "sexualised" and objectified and used as ‘accessories’ for some "white men."
As for objectification: it's Grindr, what did you expect? Enjoy being and having sex object or delete the App. In general, you might say the exact same thing for any gay man around in the eyes of other gay men, the little californian blond guy from Falcon porn is exactly in the same situation, like the husky bear in town, like the muscle Mary or the tall dark guy in full gear. It's called sex.

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't of thought that the overall quality of individuals on grindr (a virtual meat market) would be that high
Not really, everybody is on Grindr, the whole quality range is there like any other place in society. It's just not a place for sensible hearts, we all agree on that and the app wasn't made for it either. No big deal. It's the same in any hook up context. It's efficient but it's not politically consensual.

Quote:
View Post
If you are wanting to settle down and leave the scene (at least the dating aspect of it) then I wish you all the best in finding a good guy.
There is a huge difference between dating scene and hook up scene... I don't know how it works with women, but you'd better be aware of the difference in the gay world. Grindr doesn't qualify as dating.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.

Last edited by Faltrad; 12.07.2015 at 11:43.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 12.07.2015, 12:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,112
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,071 Times in 3,282 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism, Objectification and the Gay Scene ( Zurich, Switzerland)!!

Quote:
View Post
All these memories and more came rushing through my mind, just because of this one message. I have been questioning myself, whats with the black skin, dick, smell? Why would some people be prejudice, racist and objectionable and yet sleep or fantasize about the people they objectify? Why would someone like my ex abuse me, hit me, wound me and tell me that I am no good, I don't merit to study in this country, I am just a handsome useless er or all the insults he spewed against my parents and the African population and yet during his secret trips, he could be seen in Ghana and Kenya? Why?
.
It's called cognitive dissonance.

It seems they are the ones who have a lot of issues to deal with, perhaps you should pity them instead of questioning any further (as for the physical abuse part I wonder why you didn't report it to the police)... Or, in other words, it seems it's them, not you...but you're the one who should get away from these toxic relations....I would say.

Last edited by greenmount; 12.07.2015 at 12:12.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gayapps; racism;




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meanwhile, in the Zurich bar scene... Chemmie Jokes/funnies 6 25.11.2013 12:47
[Zurich] Where are all the gay boys? ilan22 Entertainment & dining 8 30.11.2009 19:41
Guide me on Basel's gay scene raj27 Entertainment & dining 1 08.11.2007 23:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0