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  #61  
Old 13.08.2015, 09:15
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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When I was at school, nobody ever had a nut or egg allergy, has the human race become less tolerant to such things or did those children never live long enough to go to school age ?
I was thinking that too. I didn't know anyone who had any allergies when I was a kid and we didn't have to take any special precautions at birthday parties etc due to eggs or nuts etc. The carrying around of antihistamine and epipen just didn't exist in those days, in fact I don't think the epipen even existed, and the only kids in my school who had any 'issues' was one who had epilepsy ( and had a medic alert bracelet) and another who had asthma ( which was also fairly rare in those days).

It's quite amazing how things have changed over the years really.
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Old 13.08.2015, 09:30
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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When I was at school, nobody ever had a nut or egg allergy, has the human race become less tolerant to such things or did those children never live long enough to go to school age ?
I was going to say that when I was at school none of the children were black or Asian but thought better of it.

I am wondering whether an increase in allergies is related to the removal of: Daily bottle of milk (especially delicious in summer), shiny toilet paper, British Bulldog, or ..........
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Old 13.08.2015, 09:53
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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I was thinking that too. I didn't know anyone who had any allergies when I was a kid and we didn't have to take any special precautions at birthday parties etc due to eggs or nuts etc. The carrying around of antihistamine and epipen just didn't exist in those days, in fact I don't think the epipen even existed, and the only kids in my school who had any 'issues' was one who had epilepsy ( and had a medic alert bracelet) and another who had asthma ( which was also fairly rare in those days).

It's quite amazing how things have changed over the years really.
In all seriousness there's a very likely link with infant mortality rates. Back in the day that you talk of it was much less unusual for babies to 'just die' without any obvious cause, and before the awareness of severe allergies who's to say that this might not have been a factor therein?
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Old 13.08.2015, 09:54
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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When I was at school, nobody ever had a nut or egg allergy, has the human race become less tolerant to such things or did those children never live long enough to go to school age ?
I remember seeing a documentary a while back explaining that allergies and intolerances are sometimes geographically concentrated. As in Americans tend to have a higher percentage of nut related allergies, and lactose intolerance is more prevalent in asian countries. I tried to find it online, but has been a while ago...

Here is a map about lactose intolerance (it's the one I know the best):



I had never met anyone with a nut allergy until I moved out of my home country (and until now, coincidence or not, it has been only Americans). Though some allergies might be indeed increasing for reasons people on the field will know better than me, I do believe that the intensification of migration movements are just making some allergies more common in areas where they weren't so known before.

Also, in my personal case, I didn't know I had a problem with lactose until I turned about 18. Not because it developed late, but because my home country was ignorant on the subject and I thought my reaction to it was "normal". I simply skipped any milk product and lived in ignorance. It doesn't mean the problem did not exist, it's just no one was aware of its existence. Might be the same to those with other intolerances or low-reacting allergies.
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  #65  
Old 13.08.2015, 10:13
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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In all seriousness there's a very likely link with infant mortality rates. Back in the day that you talk of it was much less unusual for babies to 'just die' without any obvious cause, and before the awareness of severe allergies who's to say that this might not have been a factor therein?
I'm sure that is a factor but it can't account for everyone. I'm talking about the late sixties and seventies here when infant deaths were pretty rare ( although did sometimes occur). Allergies in general were not widely known in those days and allergy testing was not a routine occurrence so I'm sure there were lots of people with allergies they didn't know about which were an just inconvenience rather than life threatening.
it is an interesting topic and something I intend to look into more closely.
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  #66  
Old 13.08.2015, 10:20
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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I remember seeing a documentary a while back explaining that allergies and intolerances are sometimes geographically concentrated. As in Americans tend to have a higher percentage of nut related allergies, and lactose intolerance is more prevalent in asian countries. I tried to find it online, but has been a while ago...
Actually the mechanism for lactose intolerance is quite different and not really an allergy - rather an inability of the body to digest lactose. The basic state is believed to be for humans to be lactose intolerant once we leave babyhood well behind, however some several thousand years ago a genetic mutation in Northern Europeans enabled us to digest it. Hence the much lower prevalence of lactose intolerance in European populations than in the rest of the world.


I believe you are right that nut allergies are also geographically concentrated but probably nothing to do with the mechanism for lactose...

Last edited by baboon; 13.08.2015 at 10:31.
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  #67  
Old 13.08.2015, 10:32
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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I believe you are right that nut allergies are also geographically concentrated but probably nothing to do with lactose...
I'm sorry if I explained myself not in the best way, but I did not mean in any way that nut allergy has anything to do with lactose intolerance (it's easy to notice that I mention America as a nut focus (no offense intended), and the lactose intolerance map shows America as a <20%).

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I remember seeing a documentary a while back explaining that allergies and intolerances are sometimes geographically concentrated.
I am quite aware what lactose intolerance is. I had to self educate myself a long time ago. And because I am keeping myself informed about the subject, that is why I focused on it, instead of any other intolerance or any allergy (about which I know very little).

I think most people in this thread probably know that intolerance and allergy are different things, but in the end it comes to the same outcome: avoiding certain kinds of food.
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Old 13.08.2015, 11:23
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

Sorry helm- but I think the confusion is dangerous. There is a massive difference between having a minute dose of something that can kill you, and pretty quickly, and an intolerance, which, in minute dose/trace may make your stomach rumble or give you diarrhohea for a day or two . even people who are lactose or gluten intolerant, can, without great consequences, have a trace of what they are trying to avoid- and survive, and perhaps not even notice.

The reason why so many people do NOT take allergies seriously, with dangerous consequences for a few- is that there are so many intolerances to this or that put in the same basket. They are NOT - and confusing the 2 can kill.

Agree BelgianMum- when I was a child in the 50s- I knew no-one who had allergies or intolerance, and only 1 asthmatic.

Children born by Ceasarian are much more likely to develop allergies it seems- which is why many hospitals now smear babies with the afterbirth- and it seems that modern parents are far too keen on sterilising everything, again, those who have had Ceasar babies more than most,

Last edited by Odile; 13.08.2015 at 11:54.
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  #69  
Old 13.08.2015, 11:54
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

Odile, I debated a long time wether or not to answer. I've been away from the EF and am completely out of practice debating onions against bunions.

There is no confusion, and I am not sure how my post can lead or feed confusion of the difference between allergy and intolerance (I keep re-reading my post and I honest to God don't see how it can even closely be read as that). Someone asked why this topic was barely existent 20 years ago, and I tried to bring an explanation I remembered from a documentary seen a while ago about allergies, intolerances and the influence of geographical genetics. Because I love mysteries, I love science, I love statistics, and I love to learn the reason for things.

Yes, allergies can be deadly. No, intolerances are usually not deadly. However, due to the Hollywood misguided "alternative medicine" blogs and "articles", intolerances have been put on the "fad diet" and "crazy people" shelf. It's not about a little tummy ache. It can be truly debilitating, even if not deadly. Pain might not kill you, but it's not less painful because of that fact.

Insinuating that people with intolerance should just shut up because they will survive if they ingest a small quantity of their kryptonite, while allergy might lead to death, is above insensitive. The situation I mentioned about the Migros soup? Forced me out of work for 2 days. It's not a sensible wild flower with a tummy ache situation. This, however, does not steal, deny or threaten the importance of anyone with a deadly serious allergy. This is not a competition.

There is, in my view, no reason to compare one thing to the other - they are 2 different problems properly named as such, with different health outcomes, but with similar prevention: in the end both need to avoid the food. The same tips to avoid them are valid to both. And the fact that there might be genetics behind both is, to me fascinating.

But I digress...

If anyone got confused by my post, or is not yet aware of the difference between allergy and intolerance, please refer to the following article:

What's the difference between a food intolerance and food allergy?
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Last edited by Helm; 13.08.2015 at 12:19.
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Old 13.08.2015, 12:44
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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Children born by Ceasarian are much more likely to develop allergies it seems- which is why many hospitals now smear babies with the afterbirth-
I believe this is still open to debate, with some saying it's not the afterbirth which helps but actually the bacteria in the birth canal and so many places now swab the newborn with vaginal fluids.

Also, c-sections are routinely done with antibiotics which - it is believed - also removes useful bacteria from the baby.
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Old 13.08.2015, 13:03
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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I believe this is still open to debate, with some saying it's not the afterbirth which helps but actually the bacteria in the birth canal and so many places now swab the newborn with vaginal fluids.

Also, c-sections are routinely done with antibiotics which - it is believed - also removes useful bacteria from the baby.
You can always tell when you're getting the antibiotics in the IV before surgery. That stuff burns like hell going in.
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Old 13.08.2015, 14:53
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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Went to Migros for lunch, in the fresh food section at the stadelhofen location, asked the server with my german speaking friend if the pasta had any nuts in it and explained my allergie...she said no, we asked again just to be safe and she said no no its fine, i looked fine because it just seemed to be pasta and tomato sauce but as im very careful i always doubble check. 10 minutes later my throat is itchy and half way through the pasta we find huge chunks of nut in it. 1 hour later im in the hospital being treated for a serious reaction.

can i sue? dose anyone know how this works. im from canada but live and work here.

if anyone knows the best way to approach this situatiion please let me know.
Apparently, your german speaking friend did the talking. How fluent is the waitress in german? Stupid question you say? Let me think out loud:

Nuts in a tomato sauce are quite unusual, at least in german speaking CH - I think I haven't seen that even once, literally. The Migros restaurants are mainstream, they are not part of experimental cuisine. That makes it virtually impossible for them to use a nut-tomato sauce in their meal plans.

The amount of nuts you describe means they weren't there by accident, it was not a case of an odd nut dropping from somewhere. Neither were they (probably) part of the original sauce as they were all on the ground, they were out of visibiltiy as if perhaps they were added while filling the plate/bowl, and poorly stirred if at all.

So what if the waitress misunderstood your friend? What if she thought you asked for nuts in the pasta? That would help explain the nuts only at the bottom, the personnels non-caring when you complained, etc.
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Old 13.08.2015, 14:58
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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You can always tell when you're getting the antibiotics in the IV before surgery. That stuff burns like hell going in.
Not always.

I had very strong antibiotics via IV (as pills weren't enough) last October, 24/7 for 5 days, and never noticed any burning or other annoyance.

Tom
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Old 13.08.2015, 21:16
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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I was going to say that when I was at school none of the children were black or Asian but thought better of it.
We had pupils from over 40 countries, plenty of black, Chinese, Japanese, Indians never thought anything of it. Some were intelligent others thick as 2 short planks.
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Old 13.08.2015, 21:41
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

This thread has suddenly gone very weird.
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Old 13.08.2015, 22:00
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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This thread has suddenly gone nuts.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 16.08.2015, 09:56
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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Not always.

I had very strong antibiotics via IV (as pills weren't enough) last October, 24/7 for 5 days, and never noticed any burning or other annoyance.

Tom
when you're getting an IV antibiotic drip over a long period of time, it's diluted, or added to a saline drip. This was IV right before surgery. So the antibiotics are pushed in over 2-3 seconds. And that feels like a cross between ichy veins from the inside and burning from the inside out. I'm told lots of chemo treatments for cancer are similar if not injected slowly.
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Old 16.08.2015, 14:04
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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when you're getting an IV antibiotic drip over a long period of time, it's diluted, or added to a saline drip. This was IV right before surgery. So the antibiotics are pushed in over 2-3 seconds. And that feels like a cross between ichy veins from the inside and burning from the inside out. I'm told lots of chemo treatments for cancer are similar if not injected slowly.

Yep that's exactly true for chemo.... It's why lots of people getting chemo or other regular IVs have ports or central lines - about 10-20 mm of tubing inserted surgically into a major vein to keep fragile veins from collapsing, and to prevent burning and irritation.
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Old 16.08.2015, 14:16
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

do allergies appear later on in life? i'm just wondering why people with severe nut allergies don't die when they eat their first nut when they are still kids?
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Old 16.08.2015, 14:24
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Re: MIGROS:NUT Allergie attack// hospital.

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do allergies appear later on in life? i'm just wondering why people with severe nut allergies don't die when they eat their first nut when they are still kids?
Yes, they do. You can e.g. eat something and tolerate it the first and second and n-th time, thus thinking "oh, this food is ok/safe" while your body starts building up antibodies against it. Then, when you eat it the n + 1st time, the allergic reaction happens.
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